won't start after dual battery setup

[BUDDY]

OK, so I've been working on my dual battery control box ala Ryoken's diagram.

The only thing on this diagram that I haven't added (yet) is the cab breaker & aux fuse/relay block. (For that I'm adding a jeep tj main underhood fuseblock, from my previous jeep that got wrecked about 18 months ago.)

I also haven't ran the switch into the cab for the ACR control yet. I figured I could flip the marine switch & just have them paralleled to get the truck started up again.

HOWEVER, when I put the key in & turned it.......



nothing

nada

zilch

zippo



I am a bit frustrated at this point, but just walked away for a couple of days to regain my composure about it.

I have a DMM & have checked the battery & charge wires continuity. I don't have anything showing to the trigger wire of the slave solenoid.

I re-routed & extended the starter trigger wire into my control box for the slave solenoid and I have a bit of wonder about whether or not I might have broken the original wire during the re-route.

Now, I'm asking for some ideas to check so that I can figure this out & have the dual batteries & have it run at the same time.

Thanks in advance!!

Buddy

 

[Fordum]

Not 100% sure how that circuit is supposed to work when it comes to charging, but you have to have 12V to the trigger on the remote solenoid for the starter to fire.
If you have not run 12V to the cab, then there is probably not 12v available to send to the trigger.
Make sure the truck is out of gear, and temporally jumper a wire from one battery terminal to the trigger and see if the starter cranks.
If the solenoid fires but the starter does not, then either the main battery wire from the solenoid to the starter is not hooked up well, or things are not wired up at the starter.

J.

 

[BUDDY]

Thanks Fordum. I appreciate the help!!

I just relocated the existing starter trigger wire ("s" terminal wire) to send the signal when the key is turned. Just like stock.

My intention was if the starter was triggered by the purple wire, then it would still trigger the remote solenoid when I re-routed & extended it to reach where I have the remote solenoid located.

I have the charge wire connected to the "hot" side of the slave & the output side connects to the starter. I jumpered the main post of the starter to the "s" terminal so that I could use the remote solenoid.

I didn't expect there to be any issue, as i've basically just installed a remote solenoid at this point. The marine switch & ACR are secondary items.

Is there a fuse or breaker that might have burned in the starter trigger circuit?

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Buddy

 

[lectric80]

Are you getting 12v through the purple trigger wire? If not, check the ignition switch under the dash on the steering column and see if it is getting power. If it is not then it could be a bad ignition switch, or not getting power into that switch. If I remember correctly, that switch should have constant power coming into it at one wire. I can't remember the wire color off hand, but make sure you have power coming in to one wire.

What did you do with the fusible links that were on the starter? Those supply the power to run the truck, including the ignition wire, and if they aren't getting power, or have been broken by the changes you have made, that may be the problem. You didn't mention if you were getting any power inside the cab, so I am just throwing out ideas here. I don't believe there is a fuse for the starter trigger wire, but I could be wrong.

 

[ryoken]

what did you do with the fusable link wire that originally went to the main starter lug? that will be your cab feed.. it needs to either go to the "common" on the marine switch, or the "always hot" post of the slave.... you should be getting power over to the 2 post junction block by the brake booster, fed from that fusable link wire....

you can just pm me when ya need to also...

 

[ChrisPerry]

I was looking at the diagram, and if I'm reading it correctly, you are grounding one of the small terminals on the solenoid? One terminal is for the starter trigger wire, the other is normally a bypass wire to provide a full 12 volts to a points style ignition during engine startup. I'm not sure if that may have caused your issue.

 

[BUDDY]

what did you do with the fusable link wire that originally went to the main starter lug? that will be your cab feed.. it needs to either go to the "common" on the marine switch, or the "always hot" post of the slave.... you should be getting power over to the 2 post junction block by the brake booster, fed from that fusable link wire....

you can just pm me when ya need to also...

This may be my issue!

I only moved the "s" terminal wire. The other wire I left where it was on the main post of the starter.

Because I have removed the constant power being routed to the starter, the other wire doesn't have power to it either.

That totally makes sense! I'll check it when I get home tonight.

I might even take some pictures to post up.

Thanks!!

Buddy

 

[BUDDY]

Paul, you nailed it!!

I pulled the fusible link up to the junction block on the firewall, ran an extension from the common on the dual switch to the junction block also, turned the key & voila'!

Started right up.

I AM PUMPED!!

Here's some pictures.

picasa dual battery album

Thanks again!!

I think I'll be updating this thread with the other phases of upgrades throughout the summer. It'll keep me accountable.

I have been hoarding parts & pieces for this upgrade literally for years & it is phase one of the four, (maybe five), nice upgrades I'd like to get done this summer.

You'll have to stay tuned for the other pieces.

Later,
Buddy

 

[Phewson1]

Duel batts

Is this set up batter than the stock duel batt setup?
I have had duel batt cence I bought my truck. It connects to the juntion box on the firewall with the other 8 gauge wire from the starter. Batt 1 to starter, starter to junction, junction to alt with fuseable link, batt 2 to junction. Is this bad? I use a high output alt to be able to charge both batteries at the same time. There is also a batt switch next to both batteries, so I can turn one off or both.

 

[lectric80]

The problem you can run into is while both batteries are on, if one fails it will drain the other. This system isolates the two batteries completely and allows him to run on standard, aux, or both batteries. But, even in both mode they are not truly locked together so it is far less likely to drain both batteries if one fails.

Under most normal driving conditions he will most likely be running on a single battery, but under high load situations like winching he can use both to help with the draw that the winch has. This system still charges both batteries without needing to be switched.

 

[Fordum]

Well, I just can't see it. Everything about that schematic makes sense except for how it charges both batteries.

My old truck had dual batteries. One ran just the starter, the other everything else. I could run the one dead, and still crank with the other.
They were totally isolated, but both charged from the alt.
I used a dual diode isolator.

Today, I have seen alternators with dual outputs, that might be better than that.
But I think there is something missing in that schematic.

J.

 

[BUDDY]

Well, I just can't see it. Everything about that schematic makes sense except for how it charges both batteries.

My old truck had dual batteries. One ran just the starter, the other everything else. I could run the one dead, and still crank with the other.
They were totally isolated, but both charged from the alt.
I used a dual diode isolator.

Today, I have seen alternators with dual outputs, that might be better than that.
But I think there is something missing in that schematic.

J.

Go here.

This explains how the ACR works.

Maybe it will help you to understand what's happening here.

Post up if (any of) you have any other questions. Hopefully there will be somebody able to answer.

Later,
Buddy

 

[Fordum]

Well, that leaves me a little more confused. I know about ACRs. I just don't see one on that schematic.
I'm guessing that the " Battery Switch" is actually an ACR, correct?

J.

 

[ryoken]

no.. the acr is not in that schematic... the way that is setup, it will only charge both batteries when the marine bat switch is in the "all" position.... with the ACR in the system, it is a flexible and durable system... far superior to a diode setup imo....

 

[BUDDY]

I've adjusted the diagram to indicate what I have installed & it also has the ACR shown.

I didn't realize the diagram I had originally posted didn't have the ACR on it.

Sorry for the confusion.

Also, this link has a great description of the diagram & helped me out a lot when I was working through it.

Later,
Buddy

 

[Fordum]

Ok, now it makes sense.
I have argued with myself as to the advantages and disadvantages of an ACR vs a diode isolator.

Still have not convinced myself which is better.

J.