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10-bolt crush sleeve... 5/15/2008 - Update post #63

wasted wages said:
I dont think crushing it in a press is your answer,,if you installed new bearings and races the preload and caliper reading will be different from your old one.

I use the 3/4 breaker bar and pipe method mentioned above...once the sleeve begins to crush a small amount will make a big difference.

you are using an inch pound torquer to measure the preload right ???

BTW,,,I've never seen one that folds inward...that may be your problem...
Click to expand...

I have an in/lb wrench to measure preload, but we're nowhere close to being able to do that. With the impact, I was able to get it very tight, but nowhere enough. There was slack in the whole deal where you could move the pinion in and out.

I know the preload will be different than the old one... that's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking is, if the old crush sleeve is still longer than necessary for the current application, what's wrong with reusing it... It *could* be crushed further. And the slack in the pinion seemed to be more than the difference between the old and new crush sleeves.
 
I agree, if you throw in the old one,,torque it up and still need more crush to
reach your pre load then I see no problem using it...
 
wasted wages said:
I agree, if you throw in the old one,,torque it up and still need more crush to
reach your pre load then I see no problem using it...
Click to expand...

I'll try that in a bit, just to see... I'll use some anti-seize this time as well. Getting it back apart was ridiculous! :eek1:
 
just a thought,,,,are you positive the yoke is not bottoming out and stacking solid against the pinion shaft somehow?? or the splines not allowing the shaft to pull through the yoke (bottoming out )
 
wasted wages said:
just a thought,,,,are you positive the yoke is not bottoming out and stacking solid against the pinion shaft somehow?? or the splines not allowing the shaft to pull through the yoke (bottoming out )
Click to expand...

It's not doing that...

Anyway, I was wrong about the amount of slack vs. the difference between the new and old crush sleeves... :doah: :haha:

I just "set it up" and got it fairly tight, and right under 20 in/lbs of preload. I pulled it apart immediately and took the calipers to the old crush sleeve (which I used this time). It hadn't budged even .001"... still read .591" in thickness. So I assume the top of the crush sleeve didn't even make contact with the outer pinion bearing.

I guess that extra .025" that the new sleeve is providing is enough to really make the pinion feel loose. The anti-seize did make it easier to deal with...even though it was probably nowhere near as tight as I had it before...

I think tomorrow, I'll try again with this impact that I borrowed (which is just a standard Craftsman) except using the anti-seize. It may make it easier to crush since there will be less resistance, even though the impact gun is probably nowhere near as strong as the one I used previously.

If not, I'm going to look for a 3/4" breaker bar and get a matching socket. Then grab some metal pipe from Home Depot and have at it old-school.

Last resort, I'm flying the Yeti out here to do it... :haha: He did it manually on his 14BFF so I think he could handle it.
 
Definitely make sure that the nut isn't at the bottom of the threads. You are using the washer during this whole process, right?

There is nothing wrong with using the old crush sleeve as long you need to crush that sleeve more than it's already crushed (50/50 at best).

I've never seen a crush sleeve that is folded inward like that but it should work. If you can't crush it in your press then something is wrong, it should take less than 1 ton to crush the sleeve.
 
38377k5 said:
Definitely make sure that the nut isn't at the bottom of the threads. You are using the washer during this whole process, right?

There is nothing wrong with using the old crush sleeve as long you need to crush that sleeve more than it's already crushed (50/50 at best).

I've never seen a crush sleeve that is folded inward like that but it should work. If you can't crush it in your press then something is wrong, it should take less than 1 ton to crush the sleeve.
Click to expand...

I am using the washer, yes... Doing it exactly per the instructions on the DVD. The only thing not in there is the pinion seal, which will go in during final assembly.

The old crush sleeve apparently was already crushed beyond being able to contact the outer pinion bearing. I easily hit 18 in/lbs of preload with only a 24" breaker bar and not much effort. So, that idea is out. Right now I'm really wishing I had one of those cool crush sleeve eliminator kits.

Edit: also, RE: the press... The cracking noise I heard was the crush sleeve being forced through the paint and into the metal of my arbor plates (they're the cheapos that came with the Northern Tools press).

I put some unpainted angle iron (BIG stuff) in there to give it a more solid surface. Cranked that sucka down and...nothing. Couldn't budge it.
 
I have a couple 10 bolt crush sleeves that bow out, like the origianl, if you want them. I'll send them to you if you want, just PM me your address.

PaulC
 
deadlew said:
I have a couple 10 bolt crush sleeves that bow out, like the origianl, if you want them. I'll send them to you if you want, just PM me your address.

PaulC
Click to expand...

PM sent... I don't know if it's the different design or what, but this one is fighting me hard.

Thanks very much for that...
 
i used a large pipe wrench and a 3/4 drive breaker bar to start mine.... and for the record a 3/4 drive impact on a 185 ingersol rand air compressor with 1"hose wouldn't start it. it worked well with the pipewrench and breaker but my 220lb ass bouncing on it while my dad held the pipewrench on the yoke
 
38377k5 said:
Definitely make sure that the nut isn't at the bottom of the threads. You are using the washer during this whole process, right?

There is nothing wrong with using the old crush sleeve as long you need to crush that sleeve more than it's already crushed (50/50 at best).

I've never seen a crush sleeve that is folded inward like that but it should work. If you can't crush it in your press then something is wrong, it should take less than 1 ton to crush the sleeve.
Click to expand...

I have used my 40 ton shop press to get them to "start" to crush and it takes a whole lot more than 1 ton more like almost 4 tons.
 
4X4HIGH said:
I have used my 40 ton shop press to get them to "start" to crush and it takes a whole lot more than 1 ton more like almost 4 tons.
Click to expand...

I had pulled the handle on the 12-ton to the point where it wouldn't move anymore...That's, of course, assuming that it exerts a true 12 tons, or close to it.

Does your press actually show how much pressure is being exerted with a gauge or are you just making an educated guess? I wish I had the ability to see that on mine.
 
I've never seen a crush sleeve that bows in like that. IMHO I think that is the problem. I'll send you the sleeves Monday.

PaulC
 
jonrpick said:
I had pulled the handle on the 12-ton to the point where it wouldn't move anymore...That's, of course, assuming that it exerts a true 12 tons, or close to it.

Does your press actually show how much pressure is being exerted with a gauge or are you just making an educated guess? I wish I had the ability to see that on mine.
Click to expand...

Yes my press has a gauge on it. My press is also a air over hydraulic and like i said is a 40 ton press. The cheap manual hydraulic presses can't go that high before the ram will bypass that pressure.

For reference here is a pic of my press. http://www.nugier.com/airpress.html
 
4X4HIGH said:
Yes my press has a gauge on it. My press is also a air over hydraulic and like i said is a 40 ton press. The cheap manual hydraulic presses can't go that high before the ram will bypass that pressure.

For reference here is a pic of my press. http://www.nugier.com/airpress.html
Click to expand...

Good God man! Now THAT'S a press! :bow:

Hopefully the crush sleeve I get from PaulC will do better.
 
Yeah the crush sleeve going inwards is very strange... seems like it would hit the pinion shaft.:confused:

But I vote for the 3/4" breaker bar, you can find many uses for it later.:D
 
mr.smartass said:
Yeah the crush sleeve going inwards is very strange... seems like it would hit the pinion shaft.:confused:

But I vote for the 3/4" breaker bar, you can find many uses for it later.:D
Click to expand...

Yeah, seems like it'd be trying to compress the metal at the "crush point" rather than stretching it.
 
readymix said:
I have used that kind of sleeve before and they do take a little more ass behind them to get it set correclty.
Click to expand...

Do you think greasing the threads on the pinion and nut, and between the nut and washer make it a little easier for the impact to do its thing?

Either way, PaulC is sending me the type that creases outward, and that does seem like it'd work better.
 
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