14 Bolt SF 8 lug to 6 lug, easy to change?

[jeff in co]

I went to the junkyard again yesterday looking for my 14 Bolt SF 6 lug with the more narrow width. I found one and popped the cover off to find out the ratio. Found out it was 41:11 so that meant 3.73 gears. I would like 4.10's in the rear and then change the front's when I drop this one in.

My question, because it's still in the junkyard, I can do some "mixing and Matching" before I actually buy it so......

If I found another 14 bolt SF (6 lug or 8 lug) with a 4.10 gear ratio, can I fairly easily remove the 4.10 and drop it into the narrower 3.73 axle assembly? I know at that point, I would have to set up the rear end with new seals, shims, etc.....but does it make sense to go through this hassle? I think the axle out of the yard will cost me $150 or so. A good deal!

The width is about 65" wms to wms.

 

[63chevyll]

You can use different gears in another rear end..if they are good.

If I'm using used gears its best to know the old gear backlash to give an idea of where to set up when you put those gears in the newer housing. That's the best way to eliminate gear noise/whine.

Now if your asking about swapping at the yard. To get home to later rebuild its possible,
But you'll want to completely clean when your at home.

You will need to take out ring and pinion, and I'd compare carriers and spider gears to make sure your getting the best used parts for your money, unless you are replacing carrier.

 

[chulisohombre]

you can do it but take the whole center section with it.i would use the same one that came out with the 410 gears and not swap to the other carrier.it would all have to be resetup for the other housing that is narrowower.

 

[jeff in co]

I was thinking about swapping out the whole carrier assembly with ring and Pinon. Pretty much keeping everything together.

Yes, I'd like an ARB but don't have $1000 to blow and I'm sure it wouldn't fly over too well on the budget side. We are remodeling a house right now so cash is tight!

 

[63chevyll]

I ran into a similar scenario. I wanted a 3.73, I was told it was a 3.73, then I get it home and its a 4.10 and had loose spiders, and some wear. Typical. But not the super clean diff I was told.

So now ill just rebuild the whole thing, for piece of mind.

Then.....I was looking at the Eaton E-Locker. And there goes the budget build, but it would be nice to have.

 

[jeff in co]

I ran into a similar scenario. I wanted a 3.73, I was told it was a 3.73, then I get it home and its a 4.10 and had loose spiders, and some wear. Typical. But not the super clean diff I was told.

So now ill just rebuild the whole thing, for piece of mind.

Then.....I was looking at the Eaton E-Locker. And there goes the budget build, but it would be nice to have.

I know, the e-locker is not far behind in price compared to the ARB. And frankly, I don't off-road too much either.

The one I found is actually from an 89' K2500 (or K1500). I have always thought I needed to find a 2wd but for some reason, it measured more narrow. Anyways, I'll go out and investigate further and see if I can find a 4.10 in decent shape. The 3.73 had a "little" looseness in the gears. I'm thinking that's pretty normal for an 89....

Nice day for it, isn't it?!?

 

[jeff in co]

How much am I talking to re-build the whole diff: SEALS, SHIMS, ETC. (in parts)?

A few friends from church offered to help me with setting the whole thing up and changing the front gears......

 

[63chevyll]

Check backlash on the old gears before you take them out.

If you don't have a dial indicator stop by Harbor Freight and get one. Theirs is better than nothing.

If the 4.10 diff had bad carrier bearings or pinion bearings I wouldn't use those gears. And will show up with a dial indicator

 

[Stomis]

Have you ever setup gears? Its really something someone should walk you through the first couple times.


And yes theres no reason you cant find some good 4.10s in another 14b SF and switch the carrier and pinion. Just remember youll need an electric impact to get that yoke off unless you have a yoke holder tool.

 

[63chevyll]

Now, getting correct parts is 1st step.

And yes, that pinion is going to be a bitch. Will need some wood and a big hammer or I giant dead blow to get the pinion out.

Jeff, as far as price about $200 + for a set up kit and all bearings, might as well do wheel bearings too

 

[jeff in co]

Well, the snow is slowing down so I'll try and swing out there and see what I can do.

I've never done a rear end or set up any gears before but a friend from church said he's done it several times and would help out. I'm banking on that pretty strongly!

Thanks about the Pinion thing. Xtreme 4wd show just did this a week ago or so....I'll go and watch what Eathan did again.

 

[jeff in co]

Well, that was a learning experience! We found a 4.10 axle and carrier and we got it all removed. Even the yoke was gone on this one. When we went to get the pinion out....another story. That think is definitely in there!! I used some wood and a large hammer but still couldn't get it to budge. I'm assuming they are pressed in there or something but we just couldn't get the pinion out. Dang!

I did pull the 8 lug axle shaft out and compared it to the 6 lug one. They both looked pretty much the same and the 6 lug was about 1/4" shorter but that's about it. They looked to be the same diameter too.

I did notice that one of the spider gear sets had some pitting on a few of the teeth. Is it OK to take the best ones of the two? And also, does it matter which spacers to use? In other words, the washers above each spider gear, is this critical to keep the same ones and not mix them up?

Also, the carrier retainer "C's" Does this matter too? Or can I just use the best looking one?

Anyways, nice time with my daughter nonetheless. She learned a little and also helped dad out. We might go back when it's warmer. Thanks all!

 

[Stomis]

Well, that was a learning experience! We found a 4.10 axle and carrier and we got it all removed. Even the yoke was gone on this one. When we went to get the pinion out....another story. That think is definitely in there!! I used some wood and a large hammer but still couldn't get it to budge. I'm assuming they are pressed in there or something but we just couldn't get the pinion out. Dang!

I did pull the 8 lug axle shaft out and compared it to the 6 lug one. They both looked pretty much the same and the 6 lug was about 1/4" shorter but that's about it. They looked to be the same diameter too.

I did notice that one of the spider gear sets had some pitting on a few of the teeth. Is it OK to take the best ones of the two? And also, does it matter which spacers to use? In other words, the washers above each spider gear, is this critical to keep the same ones and not mix them up?

Also, the carrier retainer "C's" Does this matter too? Or can I just use the best looking one?

Anyways, nice time with my daughter nonetheless. She learned a little and also helped dad out. We might go back when it's warmer. Thanks all!

The carrier retainer C's as your calling them are the rear carrier main caps. Just like the main caps on a motors crankshaft. These should be kept matched with the rear.

The spacers you're talking about are called thrust washers. Its just so the spiders and side gears arent rotating directing on the carrier. Theyre interchangeable, just make sure you install them.

As far as getting the pinion out of the housing I dont know why your having difficulties. Every axle Ive ever dismantled you just give it a few good wraps with a hammer.

 

[imiceman44]

OK read the whole thing here and for the life of me I can't understand why not just find an axle that had good 4.10 gears and just swap the shafts.
It's a 20 min job.
Just pop the cover drop the C clips, pull out the shafts, put other shafts put C clips on.
As long as both axles are the same width which I believe all 9.5" axles are, then just swap the shafts.

 

[jeff in co]

OK read the whole thing here and for the life of me I can't understand why not just find an axle that had good 4.10 gears and just swap the shafts.
It's a 20 min job.
Just pop the cover drop the C clips, pull out the shafts, put other shafts put C clips on.
As long as both axles are the same width which I believe all 9.5" axles are, then just swap the shafts.

Partially correct....the shaft will go in and is the correct length but the brake shoes and drums don't line up. The 8 lug is larger in diameter.

So, I decided to go out again and re-look at things b/c I was wondering if I mis-measured. I thought the 8 lug axle was a wider one than the 6 lug (I was looking for the more rare, 2wd version that has the narrower width compared to the 4wd version.)

What I discovered was that both axles were the narrower one so that explains why the two shafts were identical in length. Whew!

Here is what I did.....

I went back and re-installed the 4.10 gears into the original axle (b/c the truck was newer and looked to be in better shape). I installed the 6 lug shafts but when I put the drums on....no go. Too big!

So I went to the 6 lug axle and removed both of the brake backing plates and installed them on the other axle. Everything looks good and walked out the door for $125 (including core charge).

Not bad I think. 6 lug, SF axle from a 1993 C2500 truck (4.10 gears.) Narrow width 65" WMS to WMS.

 

[63chevyll]

Good work. You were far more motivated than I was today.

Well that worked out good.
Since you had the carrier out and all those conditions it wouldn't be much to clean out the housing and make sure there is no dirt in there.

 

[63chevyll]

BTW, what is their core charge for a diff?

 

[imiceman44]

Duh
I don't know what was wrong with me but yeah you needed the backing plates and drum too, but much easier than pulling gears and resetting in another axle.
That was my point.

Partially correct....the shaft will go in and is the correct length but the brake shoes and drums don't line up. The 8 lug is larger in diameter.

So, I decided to go out again and re-look at things b/c I was wondering if I mis-measured. I thought the 8 lug axle was a wider one than the 6 lug (I was looking for the more rare, 2wd version that has the narrower width compared to the 4wd version.)

What I discovered was that both axles were the narrower one so that explains why the two shafts were identical in length. Whew!

Here is what I did.....

I went back and re-installed the 4.10 gears into the original axle (b/c the truck was newer and looked to be in better shape). I installed the 6 lug shafts but when I put the drums on....no go. Too big!

So I went to the 6 lug axle and removed both of the brake backing plates and installed them on the other axle. Everything looks good and walked out the door for $125 (including core charge).

Not bad I think. 6 lug, SF axle from a 1993 C2500 truck (4.10 gears.) Narrow width 65" WMS to WMS.

 

[jeff in co]

BTW, what is their core charge for a diff?

Axle was $98.99
Core $10.25

I think I can sell my 10 bolt for at least $50-$100. Sweet deal....just hope everything works out now!

I do plan on going through the whole axle and replace the seals, bearings and pinion crush sleeve, etc. Just good precaution. I did get some dirt in there so I need a good cleaning.

My wife and kids sat at home and hung out. I wanted to get something accomplished today....either Christmas lights or Axle. Just didn't think the axle would take that long!

ICEMAN - No doubt, in retrospect, I should have left the gears in and just swap the axle shaft and brakes....but I guess I learned a lot in the process (WHAT's NEW!!)

Just an fyi, one of a few mishaps....got everything back together, axle shafts in, new backing plate on, diff cover bolted back ups.....I go around to put the drums on and one side fits but on the other side....dang! I put the 8 lug shaft in by accident! Well, let's take the thing apart again to get both sides 6 lug now.

I kinda laughed but also frustrated (as the snow flies).

 

[jeff in co]

Any difference in brand name bearings/seals: National vs. Timken? One better than the other?