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14SF to 10 bolt driveshaft adapter joint PN?

My point is, it is NOT wrong to re-use the crush sleeve. If it was, I'd venture to say that GM would not have a procedure for it. They have a procedure for it, and it is pretty precise. Most people (no one) that I know follows/uses the GM procedure, myself included. I don't have the proper torque wrench to follow the procedure, or I would have in the past. Out of four times of just guessing and tightening the crush sleeve (after just swapping in random carriers lol) on four different rear ends, only one ended up howling. Still not justifying doing something wrong, just that we seem to get lucky more often than not guessing that it's correct. I also think that re-doing the whole thing properly would be the better approach, with the best approach being to use a spacer and shims like Ratech makes for other rears, but I just called them, and they still don't make one for the 14SF.

Thats why I mentioned checking gear pattern before/after. I don't know why that wouldn't be a valid test, as opposed to measuring the force required to turn the pinion before/after removing the pinion nut.
 
I have replaced a **** load of those pinion seals. I have NEVER done anything with the crush sleeve. Never had a problem.

Martin
 
The crush sleeve doesn't change gear tooth pattern. Getting pattern readings before/after is useless when changing a yoke or pinion seal.

9 times out of 10 the crush sleeve can be reused. You DO NEED to measure pinion bearing preload BEFORE removing the pinion nut. Then stop and measure as you go when tightening it back down. You don't need to remove the diff to get your readings but you should remove the wheels and brake drums to prevent false readings from wheel weight or brake drag. You don't think that every tech who has ever needed to replace a leaking pinion seal has broken a diff all the way down and replaced the crush sleeve too. I know I never did. :whistle:
 
Why doesn't the crush sleeve change the tooth pattern? Is that done via shims, and the crush sleeve is JUST setting bearing preload? As you can tell, I've never done it "right", from the ground up.
 
Yes, gear pattern is set with shims behind the bearing on the pinion or under its cup depending on rear end. Crush sleeve is for preload. If preload is too low, the pinion can feel tight when you grab the yoke and feel for play. But when you are under power, the pinion pushes away from the ring and if preload is to low, the yoke end bearing is now loose. The pinion now wobbles around and wears gears faster than they should. This can happen and not be bad enough to make noise. If preload is too tight, bearing life suffers. You may be able to throw one together and get a hundred thousand miles, but you may not get three hundred thou like a factory setup may.
 
I sent ratech an email, asking if they have any intent of making a 14SF shim setup. The 8.5" setup is only $17, even at double that price there would be a fairly good market for it.

I'm sure now that we are talking about it, my pinion seal will start leaking. :)
 
Well, a seal leak is not too bad. My luck says I will bust a rear end now!! You said you've seen data for a used crush sleeve? I've got data for used bearings but haven't seen for sleeves. I believe you, don't get me wrong on that. If you remember where you saw it, that is info I'd like to have. Info is good.
 
Alright, I'm going to paraphrase (leaving out tool numbers, etc) the GM service manuals.

First is for the '88 Camaro "pinion oil seal" replacement

1) Mark drive shaft and pinion flange to reassemble in same position
2) With rear wheels off ground, turn wheels and tap backing plate with hammer to ensure brakes are free
3) Mark position of pinion flange/shaft/nut so proper bearing preload can be maintained.
4) Remove pinion flange nut/washer/flange
5) pry seal out with blunt chisel, replace
6) Lube pinion flange OD and seal lip
7) Install flange, tighten nut to marked position. Tighten nut 1/16" beyond alignment marks.

Of course, right after that section, they talk about replacing the pinion flange, and it is entirely different:

1) Raise car, remove both wheels and drums
2) Mark drive shaft/pinion flange
3) Check pre-load with torque wrench. This will give combined pinion bearing, carrier bearing, axle bearing, and seal pre-load
4) Remove
5) Lube seal/pinion flange
6) Assemble
7) While holding pinion flange, tighten the nut a little at a time and turn drive pinion several revolutions after each tightening to set the rollers. Check the pre-load of bearings each time with a torque wrench until pre-load is 3-5lb. in more than reading obtained in step 3
8) replace drums/wheels/etc.

1991 R/V manual "Pinion Flange, Dust Deflecto/Oil Seal Replacement":
1) Raise vehicle
2) Remove prop shaft
3) measure torque required to rotate pinion
4) Important: Scribe a line on pinion stem pinion nut and pinion flange and record number of exposed threads on pinion stem.
5) Remove flange
6) Remove seal
7) Remove dust deflector if necessary
8) Install dust deflector/oil seal/flange onto pinion (pack cavity between pinion stem, pinion flange, and pinion nut washer with non-hardening sealer such as permatex type "A" or equivalent
9) Tighten nut to original scribed position. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO HAMMER THE FLANGE ONTO THE PINION SHAFT
10) Measure rotating torque of pinion and compare with torque figure previously recorded
11) Tighten pinion nut in additional small increments until the torque necessary to rotate the pinion exceeds the original recorded value by 3 in.lbs.
12) Install prop shaft. Road test.

I consider not removing the drums in the R/V manual to be an oversight. Brake drag COULD induce variations in rotational torque needed IMO. Why the Camaro procedure is different for removing the flange for two different reasons is beyond me. (Edit: difference on the Camaro procedure is due to one is using a new flange/yoke, one is using the original one, which would allow you to use the scribed marks)
 
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Dude, thats a hell of alot of typing. Thanks for the info. I'm cutting and pasting it to my diff info for sure. I appreciate it much.
 
Just thought about it, on the Camaro one, if you REPLACE the flange (which would be yet another oversight on the RV instructions IMO), depending on the new flanges tolerances, that could screw up preload if you just went by the scribed marks, vs. re-using the old flange.

I would think for durability, measuring preload with drums off, before and after either a seal or flange replacement, would be the best approach. Use the scribed marks to get close, and check preload as you tighten. Up in the air on the axleshafts in or out, you are also having to overcome carrier bearing preload, so not sure if the axleshaft seals and bearings would be a factor that would need accounted for or not.
 
I'll agree on the scribe lines for getting it close. Take the drums off for sure. Too much chance of brake drag screwing up the readings. Plus, as you turn your drum the drag isn't constant. From there, I would think the more stuff you removed the better your readings would be but maybe not all that necessary to get a solid setup.
 
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