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1970 Chevelle Malibu "400" Clone

the 4 cycle is in a 496 at the local machine shop, it has afr 325 heads and a single plane.

Lots of guys are running solid lifters on hydraulics with a tight lash (.008-.012). The Chinese lifters are bleeding down and causing HP loss. a street solid or hyd roller is much easier on the lifters.
 
More options from above is these two if you want more of a straight up cam, I feel like those are older grinds from my experience. But I do understand your logic with the intake/exhaust ratio. The one has 110 LSA but since you have manual brakes it likely doesn't matter...

Howards 120275-10 hydraulic
241/241, 294/294, .618/.618, 110 LSA

Howards 120665-12 hydraulic
249/249, 302/302, .640/.640, 110 LSA

Although with your lower compression you will be bleeding off more compression with the tighter LSA and wider duration cams. At some point you are losing gain because of compression and head limitations and the larger cam will eventually be slower in the 1/4, especially with your mild gearing, heavy car, and manual trans. Which I agree with all of them, we just need to make sure the cam matches the total combination.
 
My mistake on the 4 pattern, I went back and reread it, sorry...

I would stick with the hydraulic, are you really going to rev it to 6500 anyway with those heads on a 520? I feel like even with the right cam do that the heads would limit the RPM anyway.

You can run the short travel hydraulic lifters to get the upper end back.
 
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I may not run it past 6500 but 5500 is pretty early to lay over. If I knew it would idle in first gear without bucking I would have a 106 lsa. I feel.110-112 + are always lazy. The tight lsa trap more combustion and have better scavenging.
 
Yeah 5500 is pretty early I agree, what cam is that? What lifter are they running exactly? What springs?

And it depends on what your definition of lazy or low end is. A tight LSA, like you state, is not going to give you more power off idle or when you idle away from a stop sign, I feel like you have more leeway there with a loose converter than a clutch, but then it would be less fun to drive than the stick shift.

I would love a Chevelle with a manual trans.
 
I know the heads are small but they flow the same air as a 305 rec up to .550. If you used a low lift comp you would be better with a 265.

I just always felt a 106 cam in both my big block and circle track engines screamed from 2500 or so to 7-8000. came on like a 2 stroke. The wider LSa ran fine but never pulled as hard. I do drink some of the visard Kool aid about vslve area and lsa. I like tight quench, tight lsa, cold coolant and high oil pressure.

I will find out the exact cam but it had morel lifters. 241-245 intake duration? It was expensive!

Right now with the shit pouring in from overseas mine is getting solid lifters. if I hate the lifters are a easy change. honestly I wouldn't be surprised if that solid roller I listed has hyd roller lobes. look how mild it is. Crazy lift and aggressive duration (and the springs to control the lifters) is what kills solids. All my solids in dirt track and in my Camaro 427 end up lashed at half or less after dynoing. Then after a few runs hardly move. I can lash it once a year.

The Camaro went from auto to manual, this is staying a stick, likely a TKX (or reupholstered seats) are next.

Like I said it is almost as much as I can do to keep my eyes on the other criteria besides ultimate HP. I need to remember the purpose for this car.
 
oh and I bet the intake will limit rpm.more than the heads. Planning on a 950.carb if I can find one. Probably have to buy a used one or build one out of a BLP kit.
 
I have read the Vizard books you are talking about, and there is potential there. However, you will find (and I believe he admits) that the tighter LSA is much more picky on cam timing. So unless you are going to put on a timing belt and/or try several different cam timings at the track or on the dyno, then you are likely better off with a little wider LSA. Wider LSA does have a longer flatter torque curve, tight LSA is more peaky, like you said, more like a 2 stroke. But when you are trying to idle away from a stop sign with your clutch and 3.73 gears or whatever you end up with, you don't want it falling on its face, or doing a burnout, you want in between.

I agree there is less benefit of running more lift with those heads, but they still flow more above .550, just not a lot more, and the cam with .620 or .640 is going to go through .550 twice, so it will still make more power, but it won't be as big of a difference as with heads that flow a larger difference at higher lift.

The single plane will make more power above ~3K with your setup, no question about it. And that is exactly when I use the Volcano because it helps make more power throughout the RPM range, but especially in the midrange where you use it most for cruising around.

I own several of Vizards books, he has a lot of good ideas, but the tight LSA is not always practical for real world use, and most of the cam designers and manufacturers will agree with that. A tighter LSA can be fun in the right combination, with the right gearing and/or converter, etc. You'll find that most of the "rattler" and "bootlegger" and "thumpr" cams that have a tight LSA also advanced the cam more than usual (like a 6 degree advance) to get some of the bottom end back. I don't think your combination warrants a tight LSA though. I do like tight quench (if not tight quench then no quench, get rid of it), and cold coolant, and good oil with good pressure. Those are almost always beneficial, but tight LSA only for specific applications, for street strip stuff I lean toward the middle of the road on LSA.

Too little spring pressure on a solid can be worse than too much. If you start getting lifter bounce its hard on parts. You want to keep it under control at all times, zero lash of a hydraulic lasts longer. And I agree, solid maintenance is not that bad, I haven't moved my lash more than .002" and I check it once a year. But the serious racers check the lash every race or sometimes every morning on the race, and if anything changed more than .004" they replace the lifters. Its just a matter of time and use. If you go solid I recommend you go with bushed lifters instead of needle bearings. Keep the oil clean and they last significantly longer.

Morel makes more than one lifter. For what you are doing I recommend the short travel hydraulics, but it seems you are set on the solids, which is great if you don't mind the small drawbacks. I just feel like at that performance level there is very little gain. If I'm going solid, I'm going rectangular port and single plane.

I do think whatever you decide you will probably be happy with it because a big block has so much torque its not usually a problem unless its assembled or tuned wrong, which I doubt you will do with your experience. I'm enjoying the conversation and the build. :waytogo:
 
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And since you have a carb, and no vacuum brakes, and like tight LSA, I would run a 110 if you want. I still wouldn't run a 106 with your gearing and a manual trans though.
 
From gathering what you like/want, here is another option for you to ponder...

Howards "Big Daddy Rattler" 128085-09
243/251, 296/304, .600/.583, 109 LSA

You'll also notice it's ground on a 103 ICL to help with the bottom end. If you had different heads I would recommend 1.8 rockers with that, but probably not worth the extra leverage on the lifter with your heads.

I don't like the comp Thumpr series for big blocks, down to 107 and the splits are huge(243/257), way more duration on the exhaust, and less lift.(only .570/.554)
 
So lets back up. I feel overlap, obviously the function of duration and LSA has a lot to do with power production. So I am more likely to pick a short duration cam with a tight LSA instead of a long duration wide LSA. Since they would have similar overlap. That said, with the current cam in my 454 I am super unhappy with the low speed bucking and everything I can find says that beyond timing, too rich/lean it is a function of the rough idle. The current cam is a Erson flat tappet hyd 228/235 296/306 .542/.542 110 lsa and the wore out 454 it is in has 92 cc 215s so the compression even with the flat tops it has OK compression, it has a GM version of a performer rpm qjet and 750 marine qjet with dual upper main air bleeds. I have added a bunch of initial and limited the curve with heavier/lighter springs. Changed it to less initial with lots of mech and light or heavy springs. Changed out the idle air bleed to help fatten up the bottom. Nothing. I changed out the clutch thinking the dampening springs maybe too light and winding up at low speeds, no change. Maybe it is my rear suspension bushings (which I changed out for new rubber). It is like tightening and releasing a clock spring over and over below 2000 rpm.

I also understand more lift and agree even lifting past peak flow still puts you in peak flow twice every time the valve is open.

These are the cams I will likely try.

Howards 120266-12
237/243, 290/296, .634/.640, 112 LSA

Howards 120666-12
243/249, 296/302, .640/.640, 112 LSA

I know the dual plane will cost power up top but I doubt the single plane will fit under my hood.

I will find out what lifters, springs etc that are in the 496 has that my machinist is dynoing (maybe today). He is far from a moron and has built a few 1000hp NA BBCs. Not bad for a small town shop.

So serious question. Beyond the hydraulic part of a hyd roller lifter, how is it different than a solid roller lifter? Are the rollers smaller/larger? Better/worse material? IF you use a solid lifter in place of hydraulic lifter (baring all the lash possibly holding open the valve, etc) why would the life be reduced?

My machinist builds 2-3 hyd roller engines each week and the chances it has noisy lifters is super hit or miss. The lifter quality now is super sketchy and flat tappets are horrible.

When we raced circle track I adjusted the valves every week but after the first couple weeks I quit getting out the wrenches because they wouldn't move. I adjust my Camaro before I go racing but hell it hasn't run in 3 years. On drag week I adjusted it the night of day 2 checking for lifter failure. With a mild cam stuff shouldn't move very fast.

I feel like you guys are disappointed in my head choice. I picked them on purpose. This a a street car. Hell, if I may even consider going to 3.31 gears (if I have to wait on the OD). Plus, since I can't leave stuff alone they will be great on a 496 build for my dually or crawler or some truck I don't have yet.
 
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I asked my buddy about the 496. It has the morel street series which aren't obviously the best but still shouldn't rattle like a gravel crusher nor possibly lose valve control at 5500. He can't dyno till Friday or next week but even a temporary lifter change to solids will allow trouble shooting on what the cause is.

I am sure you have seen this.

 
I would like to clear up that for your purpose I don't have a problem with the oval port heads. I have nothing against them, they are great street strip heads. when I say "with your heads" I just want everything to match up with the combo is all, everything should work together, the cam, heads, compression, RPM range, , gearing, vehicle weight, etc. I have oval ports in my truck that aren't as good as those AFRs. I would of went with Brodix if I did it again but I got a smokin deal on those heads at the time, but I would still go with an oval port in my truck, and for your Chevelle for what you are doing with it, ice cream, fun races, etc. I just don't see the need to go solid roller for that purpose is all, I feel it doesn't match up with the rest of the engine combo.

As far as what's the difference, from my opinion, it's the lash, every time the valve opens the lash allows it to pound the lifter some because there has to be some slop in the system without the hydraulic piston to take it up. That slop takes the needle bearings out faster, no question about it. Can they still last a long time, yes, will they last as long as a hydraulic on the street, no, not usually. I am sure there are exceptions but on average the hydraulic will have a longer life with zero maintenance. Also, because of the lash you need to make sure it doesn't hit base circle and bounce back up, so you need to run higher spring pressures with a solid roller, you don't need 800 lbs for under 7K RPM, but you definitely want more than 300 - 400 like a hydraulic roller. Some short travel hydraulics are getting up around 450 - 500 now in the higher lifts, but they still don't have to deal with the lash beating them up. And for your purposes I would think you would want 600 lbs of open pressure, and close to 250 on the seat for a solid roller to keep control at all times. Thats more pressure and more pounding with the lash that the lifters cannot take for as long.

Now I get it, the solid roller no doubt will rev higher and make more power, especially in the upper RPM, than a hydraulic. And the newest bushed lifters with the EDM oil hole that feeds the bushing can last a long time (I am running EDM oiled needle bearings .937" lifters in my Regal, but will switch them to bushed when I replace the lifters and valve springs for maintenance).

Its just when you are building a oval port stroker with a dual plane, a solid roller cam I don't believe will benefit you much, if at all, so why go there? That's all I am saying, I have nothing against the oval port heads, I just like the combo to match.

And yes I have seen my father shim and convert hydraulic lifters to solid over 20 years ago for a 511 he was building, I just never felt the need myself, especially with todays hydraulic lifters. (not counting the cheap overseas crap, I try to avoid that at all costs for pretty much anything). The beginning of the lobes are designed to have a certain small ramp for the lash, and although that works in a crutch, I usually keep the hydraulic lifters on the hydraulic lobes, and the solid lifters on the solid lobes. I do like the newer low lash solid profiles, I think lower lash is better for the valvetrain, loses less lift, and is easier on parts. But what's even smoother is hydraulic. Unless you want to rev it to 7500, then go solid roller all day long, no questions asked. I guess my train of thought is, go hydraulic for a midrange RPM build like that, because if you are going to go solid, might as well go big or go home, and that doesn't match up with the rest of the build from my perspective.

For the hydraulic, I am saying a good USA made hydraulic lifter, especially the shorter travel units for upper RPM help. Not the really short travel they are spinning to 8000 RPM and only have .010-.020 travel. I am talking like an .080" short travel lifter.
 
So lets back up. I feel overlap, obviously the function of duration and LSA has a lot to do with power production. So I am more likely to pick a short duration cam with a tight LSA instead of a long duration wide LSA. Since they would have similar overlap. That said, with the current cam in my 454 I am super unhappy with the low speed bucking and everything I can find says that beyond timing, too rich/lean it is a function of the rough idle. The current cam is a Erson flat tappet hyd 228/235 296/306 .542/.542 110 lsa and the wore out 454 it is in has 92 cc 215s so the compression even with the flat tops it has OK compression, it has a GM version of a performer rpm qjet and 750 marine qjet with dual upper main air bleeds. I have added a bunch of initial and limited the curve with heavier/lighter springs. Changed it to less initial with lots of mech and light or heavy springs. Changed out the idle air bleed to help fatten up the bottom. Nothing. I changed out the clutch thinking the dampening springs maybe too light and winding up at low speeds, no change. Maybe it is my rear suspension bushings (which I changed out for new rubber). It is like tightening and releasing a clock spring over and over below 2000 rpm.
I respectfully disagree here on having a tight LSA short duration cam. I think you will have a faster ride if you had a wider LSA and more duration while having the same engine vacuum, better low end, flatter torque, and less peaky. It will take off smoother, idle smoother, and make more power at part throttle and drive easier. You see all these power curves that say how a tight LSA makes more power on the whole curve, and then they only show above 3K. Well, with a big block, you can only be above 3K for a very short time, you spend most of your time with a street vehicle below 3K, because if you punch it you are going fast in a hurry.

I like to tune the duration to the RPM range needed for the vehicle/engine combination, and use the LSA to get the idle quality, vacuum, and part throttle driving needed for the application. The lift I base mostly on the head flow numbers and valve springs, intended usage ,etc. This is about the shortest possible summary I can say, and its way oversimplified as there are so many other factors, but its true. I recommended a cam after I went back and looked at your heads, vehicle, gearing, transmission, bore, stroke, compression, usage, power expectations, idle quality expectations, brake system, etc. Some of it you told me later (like the manual brakes). However, I still think with a manual trans you don't want a tight LSA, you can't hide the rough idle or low RPM harshness like you can with the right converter.

For example, the cam my regal is a 315/328 duration, 280/292 @ 050. And at 2200 RPM when I am going down the freeway, if I lock the converter up, I can still feel the car buck and kick a little, its mild, but its obviously there This is gone with the converter unlocked, or with the RPM above 2500, then it finally smooths out. This is because of the overlap, and that has a 114 LSA. It still has 93.5 degrees of overlap, if that was a 110 LSA it would be 101.5 degrees of overlap. ( like to use the adv numbers for the idle and low speed smoothness quality purposes). I use the .050 numbers for the performance and comparison expectations. Also, this car is all solid everything except the trans mount, solid front and mid motor plates, solid chromemoly cage, heim joints on all suspension arms, shocks, and steering on the whole car. The only poly bushing on the whole thing is the trans mount, which is only for longitudinal forces the motor plates don't handle, I don't like any twisting forces on the trans case at all.

I am using my app to calculate the overlap based on the adv duration. That is what will affect how the engines at or just above idle, assuming everything is tuned correctly. And the more overlap, the higher the RPM before it will feel smooth with a manual. The engine will be purring like a kitten, but it will be harsh, especially with solid motor mounts.
 
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I am glad that your experience with the Regal supports that I need to work on a wider LSA to prevent the lower speed buck. I agree that a converter helps to mask some of the low speed things that are way more obvious with a manual (or lock up converter).

Think either of these cam you suggested earlier would be a good choice?

Howards 120266-12
237/243, 290/296, .634/.640, 112 LSA

Howards 120666-12
243/249, 296/302, .640/.640, 112 LSA
 
Just for fun I do find these cam interesting. It is Clay Smiths recommendation for larger engines with a 4" stroke and AFR 290 and 305 (which flow almost the same air as the 265 at these lifts)

HR-294-7-CSR BBC 502 to 509 with 4” stroke an AFR 290 or 305 heads to a max of 6200 rpm

BBC 502 to 509 with 4” stroke an AFR 290 or 305 heads to a max of 6200 rpm. Welcome to the brotherhood of 600HP on pump gas with over 60ft Lbs. This cam will produce over 600HP with a single plane and right at 600HP with an airgap intake. Single plane will make 25 more HP and sacrifice 10 Ft Lbs of torque. Carburetor of choice is a 950HP 4150. 1 7/8”s headers are recommended.

850 Idle RPM

  • Part. No. 160-3104 Grind # HR-294-7-CSR
  • Advertised Duration - 294/294
  • Duration @ .050 - 235/235
  • .200” Duration - 147/147
  • Lift .559/.559
  • Centers 103/111
  • LSA 107
This is their 4.25 stroke cam

HR-9600-7-CSR BBC 477 to 496 with 4.25” stroke with AFR 290 or 305 heads to a max of 6200 rpm

BBC 477 to 496 with 4.25” stroke with AFR 290 or 305 heads to a max of 6200 rpm. Welcome to the brotherhood of 625HP on pump gas with over 640#/ft. This cam will produce over 600HP with a single plane and right at 600HP with an air-gap intake. Single plane will make 25 more HP and sacrifice 10#/ft of torque. Carburetor of choice is a 950HP 4150. 2” headers are recommended. Be sure you have change driveshaft yokes and upgraded rear gears. Muncie 4 speed, use at your own risk.

900 Idle RPM

  • Part. No. 160-3105 Grind # HR-9600-7-CSR
  • Advertised Duration - 296/300
  • Duration @ .050 - 237/241
  • .200” Duration 154/151
  • Lift .620/.569
  • Centers 103/111
  • LSA 107
*** May Require a Vacuum Canister on Some Applications

Clay Smith works a lot with Chris Straub, or at least they have ground his cams.

Here are 2 of Chris Straub 4.25 stroker AFR cams.

BBC 4.250 STROKE WITH AFR/PROMAXX HEADS MAX HP 6200 CAMSHAFT

GTA Street Cams” If you want more power out of your AFR Heads, look no farther. The “GTA” Series of Street Performance Cams from Straub tech will boost the power on your Rat like no other hydraulic roller cam. These cams have been engineered to feed the demand of your Rat based on CID and cylinder head. Your CID and desired rpm range sets the demand of the engine. The cylinder head based on its flow characteristics will deliver the air and fuel. Since there are multiple options in heads with different flow rates, then you need a camshaft based on what the heads can supply. The GTA series of street performance hydraulic rollers makes this easy. You select your engine combination and then cylinder head and we supply the camshaft. Straub Tech takes the guessing out of camshaft selection. Straub cams are worldwide proven by HP crazy customers. These cam all but guarantee the hotrodder the performance he is after with his performance Detroit V-8. Customers Report: Easier Starting Much greater powerband Greatly improved throttle response Fuel Mileage increase as much at 4 MPG Lots of questions asked about the camshaft at Chevy events….

Lift is with 1.7 Ratio Rocker

Adv. Dur. Int/Exh 296/296

Dur. at .050" Int/Exh 237/237

Valve Lift Int/Exh .620/.620

Center Lines Int/ Exh 105/113

LSA 109

We also recommend using Morel Lifter 5374 with this Cam.

BBC 4.250 STROKE WITH AFR/PROMAXX HEADS MAX HP 6500 CAMSHAFT

(text was the same as above with the mpg claim)

Lift is with 1.7 Ratio Rocker

Adv. Dur. Int/Exh 302/302

Dur. at .050" Int/Exh 243/243

Valve Lift Int/Exh .600/.600

Center Lines Int/ Exh 103/111

LSA 107

We also recommend using Morel Lifter 5374 with this Cam
.



As much as we have discussed back and forth on LSA, one thing I am fairly certain about is tight LSA cam usually are worse on mpg, not better.
 
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I wonder why the Clay Smith 4.25 stroke has a split duration but all the rest are straight up. Valve Shrouding because of the smaller bore? The 4.25 stoke (with similar displacement) requires more duration for the same rpm range? Also the difference in header primary diameter suggestions seems odd.
 
Before leaving work last night I ran it across the scale. it is likely more like 3950 since is was bouncing between 3940 and 3960. This was including my fatass so it actually isn't that heavy. Alum heads on the next big block, maybe alum wheels and drag radials and we could shave a few 100lbs.

Chevelle+Fatass.jpg
 
How to the plugs look in this engine with the low speed bucking? What is the ignition there? If you have a decent cam and/or compression and a carb you will want a CDI box for the ignition. Fouling plugs will cause excessive bucking (along with popping out the exhaust in worse cases). So I am assuming you already checked for that issue as that's more of an ignition /spark plug issue than a overlap issue. That issue is temporarily fixed immediately by new spark plugs, but it doesn't last long....if your plugs are burning super clean and the engine is running good and you are still getting it, then its probably the overlap.

You can tune it for low RPM perfectness, but you will lose HP, and you can tune it to max MPH at the track, but it will foul plugs if you don't have a good ignition system. A carb tend to be either rich down low, or lean up high. You can tune some of this curve out with the air bleeds, and the engine will run great, but it will likely still foul plugs without a CDI box, unless you have a puny cam and low compression.

It seems to me like sometimes you get the people who are all about mild cams and low end torque and small exhaust, etc.

Then you get the people that are about about the highest HP number on the dyno. I see them mention these cams above like, you have to run these cams with these heads and CID to get this power. What about the rest of the vehicle? The weight, gearing, transmission, usage, etc? I do think Straub has some awesome cams, I am a fan of his work. I also agree, if you run a 4150 carb on this beast I would get a 950.

I am kind of in between where I care more about the performance of the whole car both at the track and on the street. I'm not willing to give up performance for looks, I also want the best performance, but the car has to work the way the customer wants at all levels, not just peak HP and TQ. Dynos don't win races, and you can't drive a dyno down the road. I would rather have a faster ET than more HP on the dyno, and they do not always correlate directly.

A manual trans is fun to drive, no doubt, but I do not recommend the same cam for a manual I do for an auto. Or the same for a carb vs efi, etc. I know Straub does custom cams, they all do. Although Bullet is my favorite for custom grinds. I don't grind custom cams myself obviously, I have ordered them when needed, but I think because I use several manufacturers, I don't need to most of the time. I can usually find one between Howards, Comp, Lunati, etc. I Can also get Cam Motion, Isky, Crane, Crower, Elgin, etc, through my distributor. If I need a custom grind I can get one direct through Howards or comp, they will grind it for the customer.

As for those cams above, yes, they could both work well. The overlap on those is this:

Howards 120266-12
237/243, 290/296, .634/.640, 112 LSA, 69 overlap

Howards 120666-12
243/249, 296/302, .640/.640, 112 LSA, 75 overlap

BTW, the overlap on your current Erson cam is 79 degrees. More cubes will make the cam seem a little milder, but overlap can still cause the lower RPM to not be smooth. It can't run perfectly smooth when the intake and exhaust keep mixing unevenly before the combustion. I think the dual plane will help with that too with a carb (not EFI).

If you would rather lean toward a smoother bottom end then get the smaller one, if you would rather lean more toward top end, then get the larger cam. Its all a compromise of how much you are willing to live with or give up for the top end. I would guess the smaller cam would peak around 5500, and the larger one between there and 6000 with your 520 cubes.

Or we can get you a custom 114 LSA on the larger cam. The LSA is measured in cam degrees and the duration is measured in crank degrees, so a 2 degree LSA change moves the overlap 4 degrees for example. That would put the overlap at 71 with the longer duration, and would shift the peak RPM down a tad.

The bigger the cam, the more rear gear it is going to want in the car to perform, keep that in mind. Did you say you have 3.73?
 
I totally agree on carbs. I have dug pretty deep into qjets and holleys and there is always limitations with metering. I have had good results tuning each circuit on it's own to get leaner part throttle cruising but maintain WOT power. It is not a lot different than tuning each part of your timing curve for good idle, low speed power, WOT, Cruising mpg. It is always a hard to prevent excessive overlap or dead spots. That is the problem with just changing air bleeds, it can change how long the circuit is active. I now have a pin gauges, taps, brass set screws and lots of tiny drill bits to help tune carbs beyond just jets.

On drag week I had a 3 circuit 1050 and a 750 dominator. I would just swap carbs before leaving the track that way I could get some mpg (9-12) and have the other tuned for wot. I have since converted the 750 to a 1050 and shelved the 3 circuit because of how difficult they are to tune for all applications.

I honestly haven't looked at the plugs yet since swapping to the marine carb but it is on my to do list. I did use a wide band initially but need to circle back on it now that I have a new 02 sensor. I also realize that a wide band needs to be coupled with looking at plugs, reading the way it runs to assure what you are seeing is really rich or lean. I also finally have a vac gauge so I can see when power enrichment happens and tune it farther.

No CDI yet. I am not going to disagree it would help but right now I am not using one. It has a GM HEI built from a bucket of distributors I have collected over the years, using the best parts to build it. I use Moroso timing sets and a Crane cam Vac canister/limiting cam to help set everything. I really need to finish restoring my dist machine. Beside what brand CDI do you buy? MSD is all Chinese and so is pretty much everyone else. I like my Camaro's Mallory High Fire but you are pretty much stuck with buying on Ebay now. Honestly, as much junk as there is now I am moving to NOS GM parts when I can find them.

I was just posting those Clay Smith/Straub cams for comparison purposes. I think Straub is smart enough and has good products, but just like my dislike of LS engines because of the constant shoving them down my throat, I am not a super fan of his. If you try and have this discussion on Chevelles.com you get the drum beaters, not suggesting cams or giving suggestions but, simply brow beating you for not trusting he is the master. I don't feel there is a magic cam out there that is 25-50hp magically better than one that is very similar. I think there are poor cam choices that can make that kind of difference but if they are within few degs, comparable lift etc. they are 5-10 at best. The magic cams in the dirt track world where everything is limited, usually have some creative valve jobs.

I know cubes will change how the overlap effects the engine. That is part of the unknown about this engine. Just how well it will idle with the increased overlap vs the current 454. I am sure if I used the same cam it would be better, but how much better? And, I am not using the same cam or even design.

I was waiting on a contractor last night in my Chevelle with it idling thinking about how it is a bit choppier than I would expect for a 454 especially with the 110 and mild duration. It isn't super happy at the 850rpm I have it set at but will idle (even with the ac on) forever. A 70 cubic inch increase should make a wilder cam in a 454 a mild cam in a 520.

I can't help myself and will likely be looking into the larger cam. I may hate it but, if I do I can always change it.

My car is a 90% street and 10% strip/aggressive driving. It weights 3950lbs with my fatass, 2.64 first gear super t-10 , 3.55 rear axle gear and a 29" tall rear tire that will be moving to a 28 (275/60-15) once I figure out what wheels I want. The ultimate goal would be a TKX with somewhere above a 10 on the starting line ratio. It is available in either 3.27:1 or 2.87:1. first gear. The current 9.372 ratio isn't great, esp with the tall tires. The 3.27 might be a bit much but would definitely help the idling in gear.

The only note I would interject is when measuring overlap with advertised duration across cam lines I have had huge variations when comparing 10 different cams across brands. I have used the @ .050 but it obviously doesn't give you the big picture.

I am not really interested in a 114, I know what it does, I am happy with a 112. With the increased displacement, and reduced overlap compared with the current 454, it should idle pretty nice, comparatively. If it doesn't I will just have to change it.

If you want to check stock or lead time on that cam I would be happy to order through you. Like I said before I like to use the gen vi cam retainer style if they have a core, but I can deal with a button and a Torrington.

Thanks for all of the good discussion
 
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