Thank you very much, very much appreciated.
CK5
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1982 C/K 6.0L Caitlyn Mall Crawler (Interior time)
- Thread starter Babaganoosh
- Start date
Any luck?
Goofy question here, how far can you safely move the axle forward without moving the box? What figure states when you have to move the box?
Almost 24 hours with no activity on this thread??!!?? That's gotta be a record! 
Almost 24 hours with no activity on this thread??!!?? That's gotta be a record!
My off day tomorrow, the links will get fine tuned. May even go as far as getting them welded so I can't adjust it anymore and change my mind.
My off day tomorrow, the links will get fine tuned. May even go as far as getting them welded so I can't adjust it anymore and change my mind.
My off day tomorrow, the links will get fine tuned. May even go as far as getting them welded so I can't adjust it anymore and change my mind.
If you need to move the steering box......MOVE IT!
Don't let drilling a few holes scare you off.
-G
I went to the shop today and did my best to measure the link bar length without getting dirt all over my expensive work clothes :-) The bars look to be about 25" from bolt center to bolt center. That measurement isn't dead perfect, and it varies about .25 from top to bottom, but it should get you in the ballpark of where I'm at. Don't forget that I'm running a D60 up front, so if you have a 10 bolt, those lengths may not apply to you?
Basically, I got my truck leveled on jack stands and as close to ride height as I could. Once I moved the leaf springs out of the way, I moved the axle about 1.5" forward and then moved the steering box around to make that work.
Basically, I got my truck leveled on jack stands and as close to ride height as I could. Once I moved the leaf springs out of the way, I moved the axle about 1.5" forward and then moved the steering box around to make that work.
I just don't know when it's time to move it. When stuff doesn't move in parallel? At this point 4 holes would be nothing.
Thank you very much I appreciate your help. D60 might make a difference but was looking for a ball park figure to give me a idea if I had to move the box or not. Still lost on when you have to move it and when your OK.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
I don't want to see you moveit cause iI think it would be a bit big of a project for you. But, I would have already moved it. If for no other reason than so I could run my tie rod on top instead of bottom.
I don't want to move it if I don't have to. Doing some research before I head into work hopefully I can get my answer on how far you can move the axle forward before moving the box.
I knew my box location was not good because I had steering box to suspension clearance issues. Parts started hitting each other as I cycled the suspension.
Here's what I did and it did involve a lot of manual labor and time..
I put the axle where I thought I wanted it and error’ d on the side of the link bars being to long.. like 2" to long. I assembled each JJ (johnny joint) into its threaded insert with 2/3 of the JJ thread being INSIDE of the insert. I marked all the RH threaded JJ with colored tape and the LH JJ with a different color tape to minimize the risk of having two RH JJ on one link bar. Then, I bolted all 4 RH JJ to the axle and the other 4 LH JJ to the frame brackets. Make sure the axle is square under the truck and in the forward starting position. Also, make sure you have the caster roughly set. Measure the length of the links and cut them. I then pulled out the Johnny Joints and tack welded (4 decent tacks) one RH and one LH JJ to each link bar. Assemble all the link bars, track bar, tie rod, etc so you have a fully assembled front suspension (minus coilovers) that can be moved all over the place (full droop, compression, etc) to check for interference.
I started this process and realized that my axle was waaaay to far forward. I then crept the length of the link bars back until the axle sat where I wanted it. I probably had them in and out of the truck 5 times before they were the right length. So, with the axle where I wanted it, I realized that when the driver’s side of the axle came all the way up, it would hit the pitman arm.. badly. I also noticed that the Draglink wasn’t close to being parallel with the axle anymore. I didn't want to move the axle back as my tire would bury into the inner fender on compression. The only solution was to move the box like 1.5 inches forward.
my last 2 cents..... DON'T RUSH THIS PART!!! I know it’s fun to start welding this stuff together and go for a drive, but you'll hate yourself if it’s all done and you have issues with suspension parts crashing into each other. It took me two weeks of moving the bar length around, moving the steering box around, cycling the suspension a million times, before I started any permanent welding.
Sorry for the bad write-up.. I’m rushing this at work.
Here's what I did and it did involve a lot of manual labor and time..
I put the axle where I thought I wanted it and error’ d on the side of the link bars being to long.. like 2" to long. I assembled each JJ (johnny joint) into its threaded insert with 2/3 of the JJ thread being INSIDE of the insert. I marked all the RH threaded JJ with colored tape and the LH JJ with a different color tape to minimize the risk of having two RH JJ on one link bar. Then, I bolted all 4 RH JJ to the axle and the other 4 LH JJ to the frame brackets. Make sure the axle is square under the truck and in the forward starting position. Also, make sure you have the caster roughly set. Measure the length of the links and cut them. I then pulled out the Johnny Joints and tack welded (4 decent tacks) one RH and one LH JJ to each link bar. Assemble all the link bars, track bar, tie rod, etc so you have a fully assembled front suspension (minus coilovers) that can be moved all over the place (full droop, compression, etc) to check for interference.
I started this process and realized that my axle was waaaay to far forward. I then crept the length of the link bars back until the axle sat where I wanted it. I probably had them in and out of the truck 5 times before they were the right length. So, with the axle where I wanted it, I realized that when the driver’s side of the axle came all the way up, it would hit the pitman arm.. badly. I also noticed that the Draglink wasn’t close to being parallel with the axle anymore. I didn't want to move the axle back as my tire would bury into the inner fender on compression. The only solution was to move the box like 1.5 inches forward.
my last 2 cents..... DON'T RUSH THIS PART!!! I know it’s fun to start welding this stuff together and go for a drive, but you'll hate yourself if it’s all done and you have issues with suspension parts crashing into each other. It took me two weeks of moving the bar length around, moving the steering box around, cycling the suspension a million times, before I started any permanent welding.
Sorry for the bad write-up.. I’m rushing this at work.
Makes perfect sense actually, I'm not going in on my day off I had enough of them recently... They can pound sand.
So does the drag link have to be parallel with the drag link? I can't find a answer. I see some guys have moved the axle as far as 4 inches forward but didn't hear about them moving the box.
So does the drag link have to be parallel with the drag link? I can't find a answer. I see some guys have moved the axle as far as 4 inches forward but didn't hear about them moving the box.
Just got off the phone with Stephen at ORD, had a couple quick questions for him and while I was at it asked him about the drag link he said it isn't anything to be worried about. I will push it a little more forward to where I'm comfortable and call it good.
Always a pleasure talking with ORD, very much willing to help even the slightest bone head as myself.
Always a pleasure talking with ORD, very much willing to help even the slightest bone head as myself.
Honestly, I'm not sure how parallel it needs to be, if at all? Greg72 or someone that’s better at this than me can answer that. But on this particular suspension, if the axle comes forward and the steering box doesn't, you'll get to a point where drag links, steering box, tie rods, etc may start hitting each other. I found it best to move them together as a group.
Then again, you have a 10 bolt... maybe with the smaller axle, these things aren't an issue? Keep it simple and move in steps. If you want the axle forward, put it there, cut the link bars, tack them together and cycle the suspension. You'll figure out what needs to be moved (if at all) very quickly. Don't try and think of everything at once, you'll get overwhelmed. Don't start with the link bars crazy long... just enough to have the axle like 2 or 3 inches further forward. Then report back what does or doesn't hit. You can always cut the tack welds and shorten the link bars. At that point it only costs time, not money.
Just my opinion... others may vary.
Then again, you have a 10 bolt... maybe with the smaller axle, these things aren't an issue? Keep it simple and move in steps. If you want the axle forward, put it there, cut the link bars, tack them together and cycle the suspension. You'll figure out what needs to be moved (if at all) very quickly. Don't try and think of everything at once, you'll get overwhelmed. Don't start with the link bars crazy long... just enough to have the axle like 2 or 3 inches further forward. Then report back what does or doesn't hit. You can always cut the tack welds and shorten the link bars. At that point it only costs time, not money.
Just my opinion... others may vary.
That is the plan for today, I did run into tie rod and drag link issues before. That was resolved moving the tie rod down on the knuckle. I'll use this pvc pipe to fine tune it then get another set of links cut down.
I'll probably only push the axle another inch forward and call it a day if that. I don't want it to look completely out of place but want function over anything.
I started working on this today beyond pissed, and bought a few beers to take over... I don't know how you guys do it I can't focus and work on cars... I think the neighbor is going for practice tonight at the dirt track I'm pitting for him on Saturday. Working on the truck and the dirt oval puts me in a better happier place. I'm not one to smile and show emotion but these two things put one on.
That's basically my thought process as well, and how I'd attack it.
Just completely remove the steering box and draglink for now..... set your axle in the position where it cycles the way you like (and doesn't rub the firewall area). At that point, check that your caster is correct, crank the wheels left-to-right at all positions and you're done with the 4-link part.
Then it's time to place the steering box & draglink back into the mix.
You can start with the stock location, but if the axle is more than 1" forward odds are that the pitman arm is going to hit SOMETHING as it swings left to right....especially when the axle is articulating.
No real magic involved IMHO.... just keep sliding it forward on the frame until the interferences are resolved. Mark the new steering box holes and drill them. I'd weld up the old holes and add some additional plating in the area... too many holes in one spot on the frame acts a lot like perforated paper in your old high school notebooks, it allows for simple tearing of the frame across those holes.
-G
What Greg72 said!
Makes sense guys, found my final link length and went and got the material. was hoping to get the links tacked in tonight but boogerd up the bung a little for the johny joint. I'm going to trim the fender back about a inch off the bottom, not sure how I can go about it looking factory again.
Now to find a 1 1/4''-12 thread chaser...
I'll be happy when this front end is done. I just want to move onto the next project.
Now to find a 1 1/4''-12 thread chaser...
I'll be happy when this front end is done. I just want to move onto the next project.
You said it!
I've been working on my front links for 9+ months.... That's too damn long.
-G
I completely feel your pain on why it's taking so long, but I started with a kit!
I came to realize today with the shape and space within the fender it's impossible to make a tire fit without rubbing. Only way I will rub is with the axle at completely full bump and full lock turn. Sense this isn't a crawler how many times will I do that?
I came to realize today with the shape and space within the fender it's impossible to make a tire fit without rubbing. Only way I will rub is with the axle at completely full bump and full lock turn. Sense this isn't a crawler how many times will I do that?
