sandypants
1/2 ton status
i currently have the sm 465. what transmission is the same but has an overdrive with the same first gear ratio. thanx sandypants
CK5
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4 speed manual overdrive?????
- Thread starter sandypants
- Start date
I thought the NV4500s were the overdrive low first gear trans of choice.
Correct, NV4500 is the transmission of choice.
NV5600 came later, no idea if that can be made to work in our trucks as easily as the 4500.
NV5600 came later, no idea if that can be made to work in our trucks as easily as the 4500.
MaxPF
1/2 ton status
Only the early (92-93) Chevy NV4500 has a first gear ratio comparable to the 465 (6.34 vs 6.55). All the later ones (and all Dodge 4500s) have a slightly taller 5.61 first.
I like the concept of the OD on the 4500, but as far as I am concerned it is a questionable design, and the jury is still out on the 'fixes'. The Dodge 4500's behind the Cummins are famous for spitting out fifth gear, but from my research and speaking with tranny guys ALL of them have been known to lose fifth - Dodge and Chevy, diesel and gas. If I got one cheap I would use it, but there is no way I would sink a grand or more into a tranny with such a checkered operational history (that uses 4 quarts of special synthetic lube at $25 per quart!). That's just my opinion, your mileage may vary, all the usual disclaimers apply, etc.
Personally, I think the U.S. Gear Dual Range behind an SM465 is a better setup, except for the $$$$. The Advance Adapters Ranger gear splitter is another possibility. Both let you split gears, which can come in handy (I couldv'e used it last time I went to the mountains), as well as give you OD. Hey, it's only money, right ?
I like the concept of the OD on the 4500, but as far as I am concerned it is a questionable design, and the jury is still out on the 'fixes'. The Dodge 4500's behind the Cummins are famous for spitting out fifth gear, but from my research and speaking with tranny guys ALL of them have been known to lose fifth - Dodge and Chevy, diesel and gas. If I got one cheap I would use it, but there is no way I would sink a grand or more into a tranny with such a checkered operational history (that uses 4 quarts of special synthetic lube at $25 per quart!). That's just my opinion, your mileage may vary, all the usual disclaimers apply, etc.
Personally, I think the U.S. Gear Dual Range behind an SM465 is a better setup, except for the $$$$. The Advance Adapters Ranger gear splitter is another possibility. Both let you split gears, which can come in handy (I couldv'e used it last time I went to the mountains), as well as give you OD. Hey, it's only money, right ?
I remember someone on these forums talking about there woos with fifth gear. In fact I think was in the last month.
OP - You might do a search for that post and talk with the member about it. I do believe there's was a conversion as well.
I see the 5th gear 'problem' as something directly related to towing loads well over what the tranny was designed for. The larger issue IMO is the potential for starving the input bearing and having a catastrophic failure. Minimum fluid level should be between 4.5 and 5 quarts...rather than the 4 quarts it's designed for.
They should also have come up with some sort of slinger for the input area.
Having one of these and having spent over a grand building it I don't have any regrets. The shifting effort and feel is light years ahead of the smoothest SM 465 I've ever shifted. The OD is damn nice to have too.
The cost of the lube is only an issue once every 100K miles...which makes it a minor issue in my opinion.
I think the term "checkered" is a gross overstatement IMO too. None of these trannies ever failed with low miles on em, especially the 5th gear problem. The problem as I see it is they were bolted up to some very powerful engines over their production run...and almost every single one made more power than the NV4500 was ever designed for. The NV4500 was designed for no more than 450 lb/ft of input torque. Even the 6.5 TD was capable of pushing the design limits, the Cummins easily exceeded those limits even in the tamest years.
Rene
They should also have come up with some sort of slinger for the input area.
Having one of these and having spent over a grand building it I don't have any regrets. The shifting effort and feel is light years ahead of the smoothest SM 465 I've ever shifted. The OD is damn nice to have too.
The cost of the lube is only an issue once every 100K miles...which makes it a minor issue in my opinion.
I think the term "checkered" is a gross overstatement IMO too. None of these trannies ever failed with low miles on em, especially the 5th gear problem. The problem as I see it is they were bolted up to some very powerful engines over their production run...and almost every single one made more power than the NV4500 was ever designed for. The NV4500 was designed for no more than 450 lb/ft of input torque. Even the 6.5 TD was capable of pushing the design limits, the Cummins easily exceeded those limits even in the tamest years.
Rene
Stomis
Professional Amateur
Lets not forget the sm465 is just as well know for loosing 2nd (3rd gear) quite more commonly. I'd much rather loose OD than 2nd gear. Accelerating is a dog in my truck since it spits me out if I more than feather it in second.
77crewcab
1/2 ton status
Anyone have any experience with the Ranger OD? Seems like it would be the easiest installation, simplest design and cheapest option to get OD with the 465.
Stomis
Professional Amateur
Stomis
Professional Amateur
Wow ok I found it. I'm VERY intrigued by this since its half the price of the other OD units Ive looked into.
MaxPF
1/2 ton status
That problem was fixed by the early 80's, and the fix is quite easy to apply to earlier 465's. Furthermore, it doesn't usually harm the tranny, and the fix in relatively inexpensive.
MaxPF
1/2 ton status
Remember, these units don't just give you OD, they also allow you to split gears. Don't underestimate this capability with a wide ratio 4 speed. It effectively gives you 8 forward gears and 2 reverse gears
77crewcab
1/2 ton status
I know, just wondering if anyone has any experience doing the 2 stick tango. Seems like it would be a little hard to get used too but not so bad once you did. Kinda like the dude in the video you posted with the Detroit driver. I think this is the way I will probably go in lieu of a 4500 after careful consideration.
rjpastor
1/2 ton status
Another company to try is Gear Vendors. Their units bolt to the back of the trans and are used in high hp race cars, motorhomes, etc. Might be pricey though - I've never looked.
MaxPF
1/2 ton status
Well, you don't have to use it during normal in town driving. Just drive it like you normally would. OD isn't really needed until you go over 45-50 MPH with most vehicles, so you would normally only use it on the highway. Gear splitting is only really necessary in the mountains.
That truck with the Detroit 4-53T appears to have a Ranger & SM465 combo, so that is what it would look like and how it would work. I think he was running both sticks just to show off the capability, not because he had to.
MaxPF
1/2 ton status
Three grand worth of pricey. They also have small output shafts, a small planetary (about the same size as a Ford C4 planetary), and it is engaged by a pretty small cone clutch. They aren't designed to use in decel, and if you lose the cone clutch you lose reverse. Plus, they have serious torque limitations in reverse - backing up a heavy trailer is a no-no, so I would imagine reversing in 4-lo would be bad as well.
In this category of OD/gear splitters I think the US Gear Dual Range is far superior to the GV. No clutches, much stronger, and no limitations on decel or reverse loadings. Plus, it's quite a bit cheaper
buffblazer
1/2 ton status
just wondering but if your running that in your blazer, with the sm465 then the OD unit then your tcase.......how short is your drive shaft going to be?
77crewcab
1/2 ton status
I'm still wonderingabout that as well. However one important thing to note on the Ranger versus Gearvendors. The Ranger moves the tranny/tc back 7 1/2 inches. The gearvendors bolts onto the rear of the tc and adds about 13 inches to the rear of the tc. I am thinking the ranger with a 465/205 should be pretty close to a 465/203/205 combo. I have it at ranger 7 1/2", 465 18.5" (inlcuse bell housing length), adapter 7", 205 about 16" (slip yoke), for a total of 49". I am still trying to find a total length of the 203/205 combo to compare.
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sandypants
1/2 ton status
i brought this up because i have the sm465 with the np241 combo. i love it just wish i had that last gear.... i go through alot of pits, trails and hopefully soon mountians. so what would be the best comebo for me. i have lockers, 1 ton gear with 4.10 and 35's for now in my blazer. thanx everybody for the help. p.s. what was the link for that ranger?
77crewcab
1/2 ton status
http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/rangeroverdrive.htm
This describes it. You can also buy it from them but they don't seem to have the price listed on the site anymore.
You can also go to Adavanced Adapters website, they make the Ranger and the price is just over $1500. I think that this is probably the best option for a Blazer. The short wheel base kinda rules out some of the other brands, an this is about half the price.
This describes it. You can also buy it from them but they don't seem to have the price listed on the site anymore.
You can also go to Adavanced Adapters website, they make the Ranger and the price is just over $1500. I think that this is probably the best option for a Blazer. The short wheel base kinda rules out some of the other brands, an this is about half the price.
