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454 oil consumption (Cherry truck LOOK)

I wasn't questioning anyone's rep, I just didn't understand why it would make a difference.....

I'd like to see trev run that breather without the hose just for my own edification....:confused:

BTW, I'm glad it's fixed! Congrats! :bow:
 
FWIW, I can't imagine the k&n being clogged, short of having a plug in it!

I used the air cleaners before, & seen 'em pretty filty, but never seen them not breath at all. ??????
 
Well it is showing a little on the dipstick now. So it is still burning oil but it is a lot less than before.

I took it in for a leak down test and I tested one cylinder. The guy I took it to said he had experience with the leak down but after getting it in there he tells me he'd never done it before:confused::doah::doah:. I said well let's just check one cylinder so I picked a cylinder based on the best looking plug from the previous 2000 mile plugs that I took pics of. It showed 25% loss, so ya that's alot. I need to get it to a better place or just invest in one myself to see if it's all rings in every cylinder ect.

Jumped the gun it's not totally fixed. Still testing.

Oh and Eric this wasn't Wally's, it was a place here in Jackson.
 
Oh ya :doah:. Air is escaping out the oil fill hole. This means rings eh. But like I said the guy running it kind of worried me. I just need to do it again with someone who's got the know how.
 
FYI, the cylinder being tested should be near tdc on the compression stroke. This makes sure the valves are closed....

If you have air coming out the oil hole with the engine warm, then yeah, the rings need attention...

likewise, if it comes out through either the exhaust pipe or carb/throttle body, then it's the valves...
 
p.s., it's been a while since I've done a leakdown test, but I can't think of any reason air should come out the oil hole...sorry...:crazy:
 
My truck!

I built that truck, and that motor in about 1997! A few things come to mind, the first being quality of fuel. That engine will not run properly on regular gas it NEEDS premium! If you are getting a lot of detonation, your plugs will look like that-and the tops of the pistons,combustion chamber etc. I sold that truck to a friend of mine in 1998, he sold it to another friend of mine in 2001, and I bought the truck back in 2005. When I got the truck back, it still had the same plugs,cap,rotor,wires etc, that I put on it in 97. By the way, I would ONLY run AC-Delco plugs in that engine! Anyway, when I pulled the plugs out in 2005, they looked brand new, engine was performing perfectly. I replaced all of the tune-up parts anyway, just because of age. As far as the breather goes, if it was super filthy, or plugged it could contribute to this condition. BUT, there is no-problem running a breather only! I have used this set-up on every BBC & SBC I have ever owned, including my boats and have never had one use oil, or have any negative effects because of this. After reading this thread, I also called one of the premier engine builders in the state of Washington to ask him what he thought. The first two things that came out of his mouth were "what kind of plugs, and is he running the same oil you ran?" As far as I know that truck had ONLY Lubrication Engineers straight 30, and AC Delco plugs. He also mentioned fuel quality, but stressed to me that before he tore anything down, that he would make sure to go back to the same combination of tune-up parts & lubricants that the engine ran correctly on. Another thing to mention here is the carb-if something went wrong in the carb, and it was running very fat it could wash down the cylinders, taking oil with it, and eventually leaving through the exhaust, but not in the form of smoke. I should mention that I have been a GM parts manager for 20 years, and this situation is also similar to the GM 8.1 litre engines. The 8.1 is a great engine, and was tested first in the marine market and proved to be an awesome engine. But, as soon as GM put it into trucks there arose an oil consumption issue right away. The problem was that in a marine environment, these engines were almost always under load. In a passenger truck @ 70 MPH these things were barely running-some still making 15-17 inches of vaccum @ highway speeds. The internal PCV system was not valved correctly for this type of use, and these engines were using 2-5 quarts of oil between oil changes (the ones that were used for highway travel UNLOADED).Once you put a load behind them, no oil use problem. PCV valve closed up and the engines were happy. Not sure if this could factor into whats going on with you, but I am pretty sure that up until you got the truck I do not think that it had a lot of highway travel. Every component in the cylinder heads was brand new high quality parts when I put it together. Heads are mildly ported, gasket matched,hardened seats,new guides, positive style seals,swirl polished undercut one piece SS valves, hardened push rods,GM roller rockers, all new camshaft matched springs, locks, and retainers. I would be surprised if there were a problem with the heads! The block is 40 over, has premium hypereutectic pistons, premuim molly faced (not chrome molly) cast ductile iron rings,etc. I did not go crazy, but I made sure that I used quality components in the entire engine. Don't know if any of this helps, but I hope so. Give me a shout if you have any questions-during the day @800-450-3600 Jerry. By the way, looking for another decent 84-5-6 K30!
 
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hmmm, I always use delcos too. That's what came out, and they work just fine....
 
Hell ya Jerry Maxey. I've been trying to get ahold of you. I lost your work number. Anyway ya I only use premium fuel. Never have I used anything less than 91 octane.


I will get back on the AC Delco's. Now did you just run a stock plug or something hotter, what about gap? So the truck did not ever burn oil when you owned it? Let's go over these numbers again if you don't mind. I believe you told me the truck was built with the odometer reading somwhere around 95k to 97k. Odometer reads 12k right now. How many miles are on truck since build? I checked the cap rotor and wires the other day and seemed fine. If I've got the miles correct they should be fine especially seeing as you changed that all out when you got the truck back in 05. How many miles were on it when you got it back? Only a few thousand I'd think. I do understand age being a factor as well.

Ya I was pretty fired up on the LE oil you had told me about. I love good quality lubricants and I use good stuff in all my vehicles but I started to notice the oil use so I didn't want to spend a bunch on the LE. Also isn't that a semi synthetic. I also figured if it was using oil it would use even more being a semi synthetic. I'd love to be running a better oil than Valvoline.

The carb may be just a bit finicky but I believe fairly normal considering. The choke will stick and race the motor on first start up. You have to tap the pedal to get it to release. Sometimes when driving down the highway if you give her the gas she'll take off like a raped ape but other times it won't really give her. Almost acts like it's bogging a bit. Seeing as how fast the plugs are fouling it could very well be that and not fuel delivery but based on what that engine builder told you about the carb running fat and taking oil on down and not smoking. Well that sounds just like what I've got. It never smokes, ever. I watch for it constantly. I've had chevs in the past that used oil and a whole lot less than this one and they smoked like crazy very visible.

Well reading what I just wrote may not be right. If a carb is running fat that means it's dumping to much fuel correct? Either way is there any tests I can run to see what the carb is doing ect.

When you said the truck before I got it didn't see much highway travel did you mean just miles or are you talking about the type of driving (normal or underload)?

Either way you built one hell of truck. I'd love to get this oil thing figured out seeing as how it is such a nice truck. You did a great job, I get comments everywhere I go :D. Thanks for giving me your number I lost it and I've been trying to track you down.

Thanks again,
Trevor
 
Trevor,
I used an Ac-Delco "Rapidfire" #10 spark plug with .045 gap in that truck! If memory serves me correct, I pulled the finished product out of my shop with just under 95,000 reading on the odometer. The engine @ that time had about 1500 miles on it, as I finished the motor, put it in the truck & broke it in good before taking it back out to go whacko on the truck itself. I am pretty sure that the odometer read just over 104,000 when I bought it back in 05.

L.E. is NOT synthetic in any way, it's just a very superior product. They are one of the oldest lubrication only companies in the world, are based in Texas, & own all of their own oil wells. The do NOT sell the oil for fuel, and then make lubricants out of them like almost all other companies do, no matter how much they charge. Remember, that even most synthetic oils use a crude carrier oil to get viscosity correct. On the back of a bottle of LE engine oil it says "No other brand of petroleum lubricating oil whatsoever, regardless of price, will be found superior in condition to MONOLEC ENGINE OIL at the end of any given period of use." In other words, it's good stuff. I run it in everything I own, & I have a wheat farmer buddy who just passed 300,000 miles on a 1995 454 suburban and it does not burn a drop of oil. It has had LE in it since day 1.

I think a couple of other guy's in the thread here touched on something else that could be an issue also. If you had a blown intake gasket, or a loose carb, or anything that could cause a big vaccum leak, that could definitely contribute to your troubles. Not sure about the bogging, but I do remember that that cam profile always wanted a little bit of RPM before jumping on it.

When I owned the truck, it had 4.56 gears in it, and I did not drive it on the highway very much. It was pretty much a toy, and although the tires might have been going 70 usually the truck was standing still--lol. I changed the gears to 3.73 whin I bought it back, as I had intended to keep & drive it! My buddy Vince who bought it from me only drove it about 100 miles a year. My other buddy John, who bought the truck from Vince is the one who put the most miles on it, as he lives a little ways out of town, and would actually drive it durung the summer. I think Richie is the only one who ever towed or hauled anything with it.

Hopefullly you can sort this thing out without tearing down the engine. I have a hard time thinking that it is something mechanical, but anything is possible. But if you decide that the engine is trash, just ship it to me--I will take the scrap metal off of your hands--lol. Good luck, and give me a call, and I will give you my e-mail address!!

Jerry
 
Ok I am sure I have to be the dumbest sob on this site, but can someone explain somethings to me? First, spark plugs. How in the world can they prevent oil usage? A spark plug has one job and it is to ignite the air/fuel in the cylinder. Nothing else. It doesn't seal the cylinder. I guess in some wild miss tuned application the plug could burn a over rich application and keep it from washing the cylinders but that is a bandaid for a broken arm. I can almost believe the oil thing but still I am skeptical. You can tell me your oil is the best ever and mine is crap but they all have to pass a test for api to get certification. Since I missed the post buy the builder I want to say one more thing. Yes 8.1s use some oil but some of the major issues were intake bolts pulling oil into the intake runners. GMs spec is 1 qt 2k miles is acceptable.
 
Your GM spec is correct! Try explaining that to customer that just shelled out $40,000 +. We had trucks using 3 quarts in 350 miles many of which early on got warranty replacement engines that used similar amounts of oil. The guys that tow alot used, and still use little to no oil. I just spoke to a buddy of mine yesterday that has an 02 with 178,000 miles on it-practically all towing and he says that he is still only down about a 1/2 quart @ 3500 miles. We have taken these engines, removed the internal pcv, bought the marine intake for a carb, put a pcv valve in the cover and a breather in the other and thay will not use a drop of oil, and make a ton of low end with that carb! As far as the spark plugs go, I dont know if they are contributing to the problem or not, BUT different spark plugs definitely work better or worse, sometimes depending on compression,combustion chamber,fuel,and even the type of coil being used. If you dont believe me I could show you probably at least 100 ro's replacing Champion, or Autolite spark plug in vehicles that were brought in here for driveability issues. Can't tell you why, I just know that if a customer brings in a vehicle that has a driveability issue with no check engine light or obvious problem, one of the first things we ask is "Have you had a tune-up recently?" If they say yes, we go straight for the plugs!

Y'all have a great weekend!
 
I am a service manager at a gm shop and I agree but I mostly use ac plugs cause I get the discount. We have a 450hp 2bbl 355 in the dirt car that hasn't missed a beat all year with autolites.
 
Ok got some updates and more questions here. Took the truck to a reputable engine guru, hot rod, restoration specialist. We pulled the valve covers and checked out the guides, valves and valve seals and the valve seals appear to be cooked, hard as a rock, and guides have play in them. Compression test came back good, and the leak down showed air out the guides only. Sooo the rings are not the issue and it appears to be the guides so now I have to decide whether to throw some aluminum heads on or fix the existing iron heads with new guides valves and seals.

I did notice a few other things today that may be contributing to the problem.

I noticed today that there were some ports on the carb that were not plugged off. Possible vacuum leak? I took some pics of the ports that I'm talking about. Two ports on the back side of the carb.

The other thing that I found was a plug that was unplugged from it's home it looks like it plugs into a little receptacle box that stems off the distributor. There are two places it can go on this little box. My question is what is this? What's it's purpose? You can see I'm pointing at it in the pictures. Any body know what this is suppose to do?

Trevor

pics of dist plug 001.jpg

pics of dist plug 002.jpg

pics of dist plug 003.jpg

pics of dist plug 004.jpg
 
Plug the unused vacuum ports. The "BAT" needs 12 volts from the ignition or the truck will not start, the TACH is where you hook up a tachometer if you want one.
 
Since you have the little green/purple two wire connector under the dist. then you have an MSD ignition box in that truck. Which means you shouldn't have anything connected to the tach/bat terminals on the distributor(the two outer terminals in that cap connector area). The 3 wires in the back of the distributor cap connector, the center one should go to a ground, and the two outside wires should go to their respective wire in the MSD, those are the coil wires and get connected to the output of the MSD box. That green/purple wire should enter UNDER the dist cap, and that connects to the pickup.

Something else that doesn't make sense is, the leakdown showed air out the guides only? The valves are supposed to be closed on a leakdown test so the guides should not leak anything because the pressure shouldn't be getting passed the valves.

The guides could indeed cause you to burn some oil, but they shouldn't matter in a leakdown test, because even if the valves leak the air would just exit through the intake or out the exhaust.

With that said, sloppy guides and old seals should be repaired or replace the heads with the aluminum if you have the money and want to spend it. If you do get new heads get some nice oval port aluminum heads, american made, Edelbrock, Dart, AFR, Brodix, etc. Not the chinese junk.
 
I just wanted to post a few things about this thread, and scott. I have had advise from 4x4high ( scott ), a few times and it has always been great stuff, thks Scott.
Anyways , I did not know the info about the pvc system but it does make sense, so just because, I will fix my truck, and vette to be correct as Scott has stated. I also will say I dont think scott ever said that the pvc system was at fault , he was just going over a list of things that could possibly be at fault and the process of elimination is always the way to start. Now like all different things we do and the differance our vehicles and attitudes, not all things are the same.
Now opinions are just that, its best , especially on the interenet not to read into them. So everybody be nice !!!! :D
 
Thanks for clearing that up on the connection for the tack batt deal. I figured it wasn't anything important seeing that it was never hooked up.

As far as the leakdown test. I called the tech who did the work and he said air was escaping out the intake and exhaust as well. But that there was also air escaping up the valves ect. They used an listening intrument (forget what it's called) and listened to the air and it was certainly escaping out the guides.
 

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