big pappa b
3/4 ton status
What are your spring prices? Nothing listed on the ORD website except Tuff Country
CK5
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52s vs custom front leaves
- Thread starter 72k5mike
- Start date
marine_mike
Registered Member
^this
COCHEV
1/2 ton status
Well, its over $800 for new TC springs at all 4 corners so I imagine it can only go up from there. Too spendy for me...
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seems like a waste not to move the axle forward as well. I could barely keep my 36s from hitting firewall with my 4in lift 47in springs
Just as Chris said above, our springs are designed from scratch as our springs and could be fabricated by anyone qualified. Alcan happens to be very qualified and it's really handy that they're somewhat close and we've been working with them for around 14 years. I had to do some talking to convince them to build my first set that were a lot more leaves than they were used to but it's been smooth sailing since then.
Typical pair of GM fronts run $575 for the pair. 10 leaves is normal, military wrap is standard and length and pin offset are pretty much open. I typically set the shackles a little more vertical than is popular to keep the compression travel rate down but shackle angles really need yet another thread rather than mucking up this one. Spring rates are set off your weights or with some info on the vehicle we can give you a good educated guess. Typically the front leaves will use all of a 14" travel shock in articulation and run 11-12" of vertical travel. With lots of thin leaves the life of the pack is good at high compression levels, especially compression levels that would kill any mass production spring.
We do stretch the length easily to work in 52" mounts and you do get more vertical travel and potentially a little more articulation but I think you're getting past the point of the travel being usable and you give up the approach angle.
No matter how you slice it we can make the truck ride good, even in a 1st gen with the "stubby" springs. This was actually my first priority, it just happens that a spring that rides good happens to flex good also.
Typical pair of GM fronts run $575 for the pair. 10 leaves is normal, military wrap is standard and length and pin offset are pretty much open. I typically set the shackles a little more vertical than is popular to keep the compression travel rate down but shackle angles really need yet another thread rather than mucking up this one. Spring rates are set off your weights or with some info on the vehicle we can give you a good educated guess. Typically the front leaves will use all of a 14" travel shock in articulation and run 11-12" of vertical travel. With lots of thin leaves the life of the pack is good at high compression levels, especially compression levels that would kill any mass production spring.
We do stretch the length easily to work in 52" mounts and you do get more vertical travel and potentially a little more articulation but I think you're getting past the point of the travel being usable and you give up the approach angle.
No matter how you slice it we can make the truck ride good, even in a 1st gen with the "stubby" springs. This was actually my first priority, it just happens that a spring that rides good happens to flex good also.
22 to 22.5" from main eye to leaf centerpin is pretty common just for this purpose. You have to be a little careful with making the front of the leaf short since it can limit the twist ability but this length works well.
Thats why I would rather spend the extra money and have ord design my custom leaves. Hopefully soon.big pappa b
3/4 ton status
Thanks Stephen. I'll keep this in mind 
This was a mis understanding by me
My bad
When I ordered all my mouting hardware and shocks from you guys I mentioned that I had ordered Alcans and was told.. "Oh, We could have ordered them for you through us. They make our springs." So I assumed
. And they make them very much the same, with multiple thin flexy leaves, and military wrap.
This was a mis understanding by me
I can see that getting mixed up. Similar deal with our front shackle bushings, they're manufactured in the same plant as everyone else's, ours are just different and better
I'll have to get into shackle angles on a different day but that one does need some attention.
I just paid $330.00 for a pair of front 6" TC EZ Rides. They are stock length and have 4 springs in each pack. Then I got a set of 52s. The TC springs are just sitting waiting to be sold. ORDs price is not bad. I should have gone that route. If I dont like the 52s, I will be getting some from ORD!
Wow, finally a thread where everybody doesn't jump on the 52" bandwagon!
I'm happy with my stock length 4" lift TC's but thought about having a local spring shop make a custom main leaf, and also maybe a military wrap second leaf (just to save money vs. a complete pack). 48-49" long with the front axle moved 1" forward from stock. Then you could mix and match other springs in it.
For the rear a 56" main and military wrap with centered center pin, which would move the rear axle back 2" from stock.
I'm happy with my stock length 4" lift TC's but thought about having a local spring shop make a custom main leaf, and also maybe a military wrap second leaf (just to save money vs. a complete pack). 48-49" long with the front axle moved 1" forward from stock. Then you could mix and match other springs in it.
For the rear a 56" main and military wrap with centered center pin, which would move the rear axle back 2" from stock.
Ok, so now I'm feeling that I'm going to call ORD, (110 miles or so away from me) to order springs for the front of my '70 K10 with a big block, so that Alcan, ( 5 miles from my work) can build them to Stepen's specs so that I will be confident in the end result. I hope shipping doesn't kill me!! 
And I almost forgot, I have Tuff Country Ez-rides on it now and don't care for them.
And I almost forgot, I have Tuff Country Ez-rides on it now and don't care for them.
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Those look way better than what is under my truck now!!! I can't help but think that ORD's testing and experience could help to make a good product better. I have had excellent results from them and heard of the same from Alcan. I have had great results from Alcan on products for work related trucks. (mostly Class 8)
So what kind of spring rates do we end up with on the custom front leaves? TC EZ-ride is like 300lbs/in. and 52's are much lower (150?) I'm assuming that the static rate would be somewhere between those two? To make it all work right are off-the-shelf Bilstein 5100s OK or does ORD recommend custom valving?
Also, is it so bad to leave 52's or 56's in the back? Especially for rigs that already have a rear anti-wrap bar?
Also, is it so bad to leave 52's or 56's in the back? Especially for rigs that already have a rear anti-wrap bar?
When can you start a thread on shackle angle? I'm looking forward to it.
Yoda voice: All questions you are young padawan. Switch from Yoda to Woodrow Call: Better'n not askin' and stayin' dumb
I'm a bit hesitant to start talking spring rates because I don't know that all the rates actually test the same either on a machine or as installed. Generally our custom stuff will range from 275#/in to 350#/in in my calculator. (350#/in range is generally with a cummins) This may or may not compare to any other springs' advertised rate. How they act installed on the vehicle with shackles can change how they actually feel a lot and depends on whether you're talking about straight up and down ride or one wheel bump.
In general softer springs require better shocks since you're increasing the range of wheel travel available. With more wheel travel you're going to get more geometry change for the steering and the axle path. Luckily the axle path is generally friendly with leaves but steering can be a problem and crossover isn't enough of an answer to make it totally right. Good shocks come into making sure that the spring doesn't travel through it's entire range of motion all the time or let it continue to oscillate after the bump is over along with the rest of the body control motions from pitch and roll.
Valving: the off the shelf 5125 valve is pretty good but personally I think they have a little too much free motion at low shaft speed ("bleed"). Some may like it better than me and I don't hate it, I just know it can be better. Your milage with any shock valve system will vary with your use, terrain and preference which brings about one other recommendation: consider a shock that is rebuildable and re-valvable. That way if you don't like it you can change it, or have it changed. Problem is the shocks get more expensive to get this feature. I think the lowest price re-buildable shock so far is the bilstein 5165 and I'm not sure what availability is on all the part #s so far. Their 7100 is a good choice but you're firmly over $200 each at that point. This is one place where dual 5125's might actually make sense. I'm usually not a dual shock fan but it may work out.
I have to run now, this has been interrupted several times already.
I'm a bit hesitant to start talking spring rates because I don't know that all the rates actually test the same either on a machine or as installed. Generally our custom stuff will range from 275#/in to 350#/in in my calculator. (350#/in range is generally with a cummins) This may or may not compare to any other springs' advertised rate. How they act installed on the vehicle with shackles can change how they actually feel a lot and depends on whether you're talking about straight up and down ride or one wheel bump.
In general softer springs require better shocks since you're increasing the range of wheel travel available. With more wheel travel you're going to get more geometry change for the steering and the axle path. Luckily the axle path is generally friendly with leaves but steering can be a problem and crossover isn't enough of an answer to make it totally right. Good shocks come into making sure that the spring doesn't travel through it's entire range of motion all the time or let it continue to oscillate after the bump is over along with the rest of the body control motions from pitch and roll.
Valving: the off the shelf 5125 valve is pretty good but personally I think they have a little too much free motion at low shaft speed ("bleed"). Some may like it better than me and I don't hate it, I just know it can be better. Your milage with any shock valve system will vary with your use, terrain and preference which brings about one other recommendation: consider a shock that is rebuildable and re-valvable. That way if you don't like it you can change it, or have it changed. Problem is the shocks get more expensive to get this feature. I think the lowest price re-buildable shock so far is the bilstein 5165 and I'm not sure what availability is on all the part #s so far. Their 7100 is a good choice but you're firmly over $200 each at that point. This is one place where dual 5125's might actually make sense. I'm usually not a dual shock fan but it may work out.
I have to run now, this has been interrupted several times already.
