'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build

[76zimmer]

Have you guys been living in a hole? Halestorm is old news, been listening to them for years.

I have too Jess
Waited until I just got their latest cd and started watching some videos before I got real excited about them.

Greg I like your non OSHA approved way of getting things done by yourself
Im sure most of us figure out ways of doing things by ourselves
As you get older you realize that brute force dont work so good anymore and working smarter not harder is a good self preservation technique!

 

[Greg72]

Yeah.....well.

I tried to use ratchet straps to lift the engine cradle up into position, but it ended up being WAY more trouble than help. You can only lift something a few inches before the center spindle is completely full of nylon strapping and won't move anymore.

....and usually when you finally try to release a little pressure to lower the item you're lifting, the latch skips over the retaining teeth and the whole thing crashes to the floor anyway.


-G

 

[76zimmer]

Do you have come alongs or a cherry picker?
I use both a lot anymore!

 

[mrk5]

Another little-known secret to getting super-hero type results on a garage day is to make sure that you get plenty of iron supplements! By the time I was ready to weld those brackets there was PLENTY of extra iron (and cutoff wheel debris) in my coffee....... YUM!

-G

I've got one cup that has grinder debris permanently embedded in the ceramic on the outside of it.

 

[folkenheath]

The only lingering issue related to the engine cradle / strut mounting scheme is that I'd still like to add a couple more tubes (animals) to my farm.... Ideally, something that picks up that unsupported front "triangle" on the perimeter bar and locks it down to the framerail like everything else..... remembering that this is an area where the tire will live under "full stuff" articulation, it makes sense to use a curved tube to provide adequate clearance. Having a curve will also help to define the "wheeltub" shape and give me a good starting point when I start trying to fit some sheetmetal (or fiberglass) wheel tubs.

So here is the current idea rendered in small-diameter solid rod, to show the possible tube shape and position:

I think a "rolled" tube would look pretty cool for this little detail, but I don't think I'll be able to create a smooth looking one with my currect tubing bender.... the best I could do is bend a couple of degrees...shift the tube maybe 2", bend another couple of degrees, etc, etc. I'm sure I could get a quasi-curved shape but I doubt that it would have the smoothness of a truly roll-formed part???
-G

Have you articulated the axle up on each side with the tire mounted to see how much clearance you actually need?

 

[Greg72]

Have you articulated the axle up on that side with the tire mounted to see how much clearance you actually need?

I've haven't done a full-cycling test for quite a while now..... last time I did one, I was still running tack-welded suspension links and cobbled-together idler and PHB mounts!!!

My guess is that you're hinting that the tube doesn't really NEED to be curved at all?

There's not much holding me back as of today. The axle-side PHB mount needs to be reworked for about the 20th time, but I think that's about the only thing stopping me from SAFELY doing another cycling test and putting some weight on the front end to see what happens!!!


-G

 

[folkenheath]

Don't even need weight on it, just push that side up with a floor jack under a mounted tire/wheel and let the other side droop with no wheel, the swap the tire to the other side and repeat. It may help to bolt the shocks in for that, just let them be empty. Then you will know how much room you need near that bar. It may not need to be curved, it could be close but so many variables I can't say with the axle width, upper tube width, tire offset, suspension travel, panhard arc, and on and on...

 

[westn11]

my 2 cents...

1. looks awesome! keep up the great work.
2. if you're going to have to build exhaust from scratch, maybe leave some of those extra bracing bars out for a while. I have a feeling that you'll need all the elbow/arm/welder room you can get when building the headers :-)

Looks great!

 

[westn11]

Never mind... I forgot, its removable :-)

 

[AJs72K5]

-G

I'm looking at this shot and am trying to figure out where/how you're going to run the headers. I know you were thinking outboarding them, but #7 and #8 tubes are gonna be interesting around the engine cage and the strut...

 

[Greg72]

The rearmost one on the PS is probably the only challenge...

That's the furthest back of any of them but I still have decent room. The photos make it seem worse than it really is.....


-G

 

[jekquistk5]

No cheap shot here... Just amazing work as always. I can't wait to see the beast in all her glory, shimmering in the sunlight.

And just run zoomies

 

[Greg72]

2014.08.19 - UPDATE! - TAKE YOUR "CHEAP SHOTS" NOW, WHILE I'M DOWN....!!!!


Rough night.

Things started out so well too.... I had the garage all cleaned up and was starting to do my final cycling/steering tests to make sure that the addition of my final link materials and fabricated brackets hadn't created any new interferences.

I found a few small issues, like the new 2.25" lower links actually HIT the underside of the framerail now, whereas the "mock up" ones made out of 1.75" DOM didn't.... and I need a tad more clearance on the frame for the idler to swing underneath on hard right turns when the suspension is fully drooped/flexed. These are all easily manageable and were not causing me any worry.

Here's a shot of the front suspension in it's "maxed out" configuration.... strut is fully extended on the driver's side, strut is fully compressed on the passenger side. This is what 100% flexed-out (14" of front travel) is going to look like on this truck...

And here's that same shot from underneath with just one tire mounted to show what it would look like from the rock's perspective!

Shortly after this photo was taken, things started to get bad......REALLY BAD. I had to sleep on it last night to fully process what went wrong, and how I ended up in this tough spot but I think I've figured it out. Those of you who would like to take a cheap shot, or say "I told you so" can prepare your replies to this thread now...

FULL DISCLOSURE:

Here is how I got into trouble. All along I knew that the only way to check for clearance issues was to have the tires/wheels bolted on and to do all the cycling/turning tests. I actually DID those tests, but I made a simple mistake..... I always did my tests with BOTH tires bolted on, unlike last night where only ONE tire was attached. The difference seems trivial, but it's not.

With both tires attached, the non-articulating tire is resting on the floor.... that's the lowest it can go. It doesn't "droop", though it sort of looks like it's drooping when the opposite side starts to stuff into the wheelwell. The problem is that there is about 8" of additional "droop" that never gets tested while the other tire is stuffed and max'ed out. As you are about to see...... quite a LOT of stuff happens differently under those circumstances.

For example:

This is with the tire BARELY turning right (maybe 10 degrees?) and I'm already into the firewall in a pretty serious way..... the amount of room needed only gets worse as the tire turns more sharply.

From the attic, looking straight down at the problem:

It's a funky-weird look because the axle is drooping and the tire is angled AND trying to turn..... it almost looks like something is broken, but it's not. It's quite clear that the firewall is going to need some serious rework!!!

The real heartbreaker though is this one....... I tried to bolt the fender on to see just exactly what kind of issues my mistake was going to have caused.....

Yeah, it's pretty bad. The tire hits the top of the fender arch so badly that I can't even get the lower fender area within 6 inches of the rockerpanel area to bolt it down. This means that the fender opening is going to have to be substantially enlarged..... and my fear is that the result is going to be ugly.

Unfortunately, there isn't much I can do about it at this point. The suspension is "locked down" in terms of dimensions and axle position. About the only thing I could imagine doing is running a set of external bumpstops for street use to limit my bump travel from 6" to something a lot smaller (like 3" or 4") so that the fenders can't get hit. However, that will REQUIRE me to remove all the body work EVERY time I go wheeling (or leave the bumpstops installed, I suppose) but I don't really like that idea.

Anyway..... unlike one of those "reality shows" where everything seems to go smoothly and quickly, I thought it would be more REAL to share what happened and let you share in my suffering.


-G

 

[r3dd0g]

If everything worked by limiting the droop on the opposite side why not just run limit straps?

 

[mtnman]

I feel your pain! Too may times I have made one "simple" mod that becomes a major mod! No doubt you will come up with a creative, functional and very pretty solution!

 

[Chevy305]

That really sucks. We've all been there before, just when you thought you had it there was some minor detail overlooked that screws the whole thing up.

Any chance of moving the axle forward? At least then you wouldn't be in the firewall. Also what about the driver's side? Are you that far into the firewall there? Would pose a lot more issues with steering column and brake master cylinder?

 

[jekquistk5]

Yikes I now see what you mean. May I suggest taking a page out of Mikes handbook and have a few neers.

 

[Greg72]

If everything worked by limiting the droop on the opposite side why not just run limit straps?

I've come too far to give up now..... No way I'm going to turn my 14" travel shocks into 6" travel shocks by throwing a massive set of limit straps on there. No droop at all would make for some sketchy handling too, I'll bet.

I feel your pain! Too may times I have made one "simple" mod that becomes a major mod! No doubt you will come up with a creative, functional and very pretty solution!

We'll see.... taking a fresh look this morning seemed to help. Things were pretty stressful in the shop last night when I first discovered all of this.

That really sucks. We've all been there before, just when you thought you had it there was some minor detail overlooked that screws the whole thing up.

Any chance of moving the axle forward? At least then you wouldn't be in the firewall. Also what about the driver's side? Are you that far into the firewall there? Would pose a lot more issues with steering column and brake master cylinder?

I'm going to trace-out a new firewall shape and SLOWLY remove metal to see how much is really in the way... if I can't get to 100% that way, I might consider moving the axle forward (like 1/4" or 1/2" MAX) but it opens a huge Pandora's Box of other issues that I've already solved. Really don't want to go there again. Hadn't considered the possible effects on the driver's side with regard to steering and brakes. I don't THINK it will get that far inboard.... but man, what a nightmare that will be if it actually does.

Yikes I now see what you mean. May I suggest taking a page out of Mikes handbook and have a few neers.

That was my first "troubleshooting" technique last night.



-G

 

[r3dd0g]

I've come too far to give up now..... No way I'm going to turn my 14" travel shocks into 6" travel shocks by throwing a massive set of limit straps on there. No droop at all would make for some sketchy handling too, I'll bet.

-G

Sorry, I guess I wasn't understanding that you didn't droop it out at all, I thought it got mostly drooped out, but the tires were limiting the last inch or two. That is a major oops, it will be interesting to see how you make everything work.

Maybe you can fab up some pre-runner style fenders to clear the tires, unless someone makes fiberglass ones.

 

[ashman]

I know it sucks man, but I do appreciate the fact that you share these setbacks. Like you said, on the shows it always seems to come together so easily so it's nice to see that in the real world everyone else runs into major setbacks just like I do.