so awesome! I hope I can get back on my blazer build eventually. My son is 20months now, summers coming up so more free time hopefully.
CK5
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'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
This is the build description. I will improve this later. (GB)
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2016
- Posts
- 245
- Reaction score
- 166
Cool. Good for you.
bigred88
1/2 ton status
Dio or Killswitch Engage?
Truck looks good!
Truck looks good!
I'm only familiar with the DIO one.... that's the song that always plays in my head when something victorious is happening.
-G
bigred88
1/2 ton status
I'm only familiar with the DIO one.... that's the song that always plays in my head when something victorious is happening.
-G
Probably a bit generational- all I knew in college was the Killswitch Engage version, it was a few years until I even learned they had covered it...
Outstanding news on your return to “the flow.” You’ve made a fine place for getting work done.
David
David
I saw an orange bucket in there... lol
I'm certain this has been covered BUT since we are getting back to the grind stone, I figure this topic can be revisited.
What are your goals with this build?
Streetable?
Trailer queen?
AC? (seems silly but you are in S. TX now)
And I think you need some period correct dog dish hub caps...the current ones just don't do it justice.
What are your goals with this build?
Streetable?
Trailer queen?
AC? (seems silly but you are in S. TX now)
And I think you need some period correct dog dish hub caps...the current ones just don't do it justice.
ALL OF THE ABOVE.... (except trailer queen)
One of the things that makes this build take so long is the constant struggle to maintain a street-drivable, highway friendly truck while still incorporating a LOT of really cool offroad capability.
In the early 2000's, it was crazy watching the way the internet influenced 4x4 hobbyists into believing that "5.13s are the answer to life".... (this has since been replaced with "LS Swap the World!")
Guys would take a nice dual-purpose truck on 35's..... drop in a doubler and 5.13s and put on a set of 40s and completely lose the ability to take it anywhere without a trailer. Suddenly, everyone starting buying trailers and diesel tow-rigs... and couldn't figure out how their hobby got so damned expensive.
The opposite approach was to see how far it was possible to build a true "dual purpose" vehicle... something that made no apologies offroad but could still drive to the trailhead on it's own, and right back home afterward.
It's been said several times in this thread, but it's worth repeating.... the whole build starts with TIRES. You pick the tire size you want to run, and every other component must be matched properly to it.
It's generally agreed that 38" tires are basically as big as you can go for a truck that is going to drive comfortably on the highway. You can't really do a bias-ply tire either if you're being serious about road manners, so it's got to be a radial of some kind.
These days, 38's aren't really all that big and for serious offroading you give up quite a bit of underbelly / under axle clearance.
The decision to use portal axles was a way to get the effect of a much larger tire while still being street-friendly, fitting under a 7' garage door, etc.
Gearing is one of the places where you can easily ruin the balance between a street-driven & offroad capable machine. Deep gearing is great for crawl ratios, but the highway RPMs suffer and without an overdrive transmission the truck will probably never see highway duty again. That's a huge tradeoff. Mog-9s were chosen as a hybrid solution to get the high-clearance of the portal Unimog 404 axles, but without the punishing 7.56:1 axle gear ratio. 2.47" Ford gears x 2.13 portal gears = 5.26:1 axle gear.... with a strong 4L80E overdrive, 65mph is aound 2200RPM.... which helps this truck to strike that balance between street & offroad-only.
Atlas 4-speed transfercase was an expensive but necessary final part of that equation. There was no other good option to get a LOT of extra gear reduction in a small package. Having choices of 2:1 / 2.72:1 and 5.44:1 reduction means that there should be a good choice for almost any offroad situation... and 141:1 (in lowest gear) is just about a perfect amount of reduction for a 38" tire.
A well-designed suspension is good on the street and offroad, and the challenge of doing a fully custom self-designed setup (using all of my 4-Link Calculator efforts) was irresistible. Obviously, with good geometry you get a lot of choices for setting ride height, and shock tuning allows gives a lot of flexibility as you try to strike that perfect balance between "street-stiff" and "soft-as-a-cloud" offroad dampening.
Back in 2006, I rented a Jeep Rubicon in Moab.... it was a real eye-opener because even though it was a very capable offroader, it was genuinely comfortable on the highway and it had creature comforts like AC... good storage, easy to use softtop, etc. If I'm being completely honest.... it was just a MUCH better vehicle than my Blazer was at that time, and it is probably one of the things that really convinced me that building the "ultimate offroader" wasn't just about having the best suspension and gearing. It had to have the whole package..... power, comfort, convenience, good road manners, etc.
So yeah, I'm going to install AC in a full convertible. I was surprised at how pleasant it was in the Jeep to have cool air on the floorboards (cooling a hot transmission tunnel) and also coming off the windshield defroster.... when you're crawling at 3MPH or less, having that cool air circulating is actually REALLY luxurious and enjoyable.
Anyway.... I could probably go on for a couple more hours about all of this, but hopefully that gives you a flavor for how the decisions were made on the "MAW" build.
-G
I've been sorta the same way with my LJ build. I drive it everywhere, BUT, I did have a failure recently that left me stuck. Had to bum a ride home and tow it home with the sub which then decided to fail on me, as well. 700r4 woes.
I agree about building around tire size. I did the typical BS where I worked up to 35's (remember, it's a Jeep LJ) then did some axle swapping and went to 37's. I do agree that 37's are awesome off road BUT everything has to change. I sorta wonder if I made the right move. Anyways, on 37's with 4.88's, the stock 4.0 was terrible. I added the Banks kit and 70mph is easy. Easier than 35's and 4.88's. Basically, I'm stuck with my 37's now trying to redo the suspension and fix everything up to work around that tire but at least it will cruise down the highway.
I agree about building around tire size. I did the typical BS where I worked up to 35's (remember, it's a Jeep LJ) then did some axle swapping and went to 37's. I do agree that 37's are awesome off road BUT everything has to change. I sorta wonder if I made the right move. Anyways, on 37's with 4.88's, the stock 4.0 was terrible. I added the Banks kit and 70mph is easy. Easier than 35's and 4.88's. Basically, I'm stuck with my 37's now trying to redo the suspension and fix everything up to work around that tire but at least it will cruise down the highway.
I come back to this site after an almost 4 year hiatus, specifically search for this build first, only to learn that you’re still not done?
Although; I don’t think CK5 would know what to do if you finished.
Although; I don’t think CK5 would know what to do if you finished.
SUPERDAVE!!!!!
Good to see you around again buddy!
Yeah, well..... some things never change. Big move from NH to TX killed a lot of progress for more than 2 of those years, but I'm back on it now and trying to remember where I left off.
Got about 1/2 of the exhaust system re-hung on the truck last night... maybe this weekend I'll get the rest under there and start figuring out fuel system plumbing and the tank.
-G
SUPERDAVE!!!!!
Good to see you around again buddy!
Yeah, well..... some things never change. Big move from NH to TX killed a lot of progress for more than 2 of those years, but I'm back on it now and trying to remember where I left off.
Got about 1/2 of the exhaust system re-hung on the truck last night... maybe this weekend I'll get the rest under there and start figuring out fuel system plumbing and the tank.
-G
Do I sense engine work and/or firing coming next? That would be a huge milestone!
2020.03.15 - UPDATE!!! - TOOL SHOPPING
As I get back into the workshop, and start remember where things left off it seems like there are a few areas where extra tools are needed.
Specifically, it's been a goal of mine to get into the classic discipline of metalshaping... hammering and smoothing metal and making curved shapes that are needed instead of trying to simply find a donor panel a curve that might work and trying to weld/graft into place.
Been spending a lot of time on YouTube watching videos and trying to put a list of "must have" tools together and figuring out a budget.
The first tool seemed like it had to be the English Wheel. Prices vary wildly based on throat depth and strength but since the objective is to preserve as much floorspace as possible, the idea of a benchtop mounted unit seems to be a good starting place. Something like this seems to hit a good price/performance target:
https://www.eastwood.com/benchtop-english-wheel.html
It also appears that to perform that same function, a Planishing Hammer is pretty useful as well. Perhaps not quite as appropriate for LONG parts as the traditional English Wheel, but for most smaller pieces this is just another way to either smooth bumps out of a hammerformed piece, or even to start from scratch and make bowl or curved patch panels.
These can be picked up dirt cheap or super-expensively and since what I really need is experience to "know what I don't know" about them, it's tempting to get get a cheap one and just start practicing.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200659556_200659556
From there, a few smaller specialty items would be nice like a set of shrinker / stretchers for making curved flanges. I'm tempted to go with a pedestal style on this one since it won't take up too much room and having a foot pedal would leave both hands free to hold the parts and do a more careful job.
There might be a cheaper foot-operated option out there, but this is the basic idea:
https://www.trick-tools.com/MetalAce_Shrinker_Stretcher_Deluxe_Kit_SSF2005_Kit_953
And finally..... paging @Deuling a power operated beadroller of some kind.... because I always work alone in my shop and it seems impossible to get a smooth bead if one arm is reaching and struggling to crank that handle while also trying to feed material in a nice straight line. This one is definitely expensive but maybe there is a cheaper way to get into a decent one?
https://www.baileigh.com/bead-roller-br-18e-36
Current thought process is that a planishing hammer can probably do almost everything that the English Wheel can, but it's REALLY noisy.... so it might not work with my schedule where I only can work late evenings and Charlie is trying to sleep directly above the garage space. Maybe English Wheel is a better option in those cases where I need to do quieter and more peaceful fabrication?
Anyway, the entry-level kits for the English Whee and Planisher seem cheap enough that I could get started and build some experience and may even feel like those tools are more than adequate... and save precious floor space in the process.
If anyone has any links to particular models that they like, please post them up. Also, if my assumptions about the English Wheel vs Planisher are incorrect, please let me know that too. I suspect I'll be buying a low-cost version of each so it's probably not an "either / or" type decision for me.... but would be good to confirm my basic understanding of these two tools.
-G
As I get back into the workshop, and start remember where things left off it seems like there are a few areas where extra tools are needed.
Specifically, it's been a goal of mine to get into the classic discipline of metalshaping... hammering and smoothing metal and making curved shapes that are needed instead of trying to simply find a donor panel a curve that might work and trying to weld/graft into place.
Been spending a lot of time on YouTube watching videos and trying to put a list of "must have" tools together and figuring out a budget.
The first tool seemed like it had to be the English Wheel. Prices vary wildly based on throat depth and strength but since the objective is to preserve as much floorspace as possible, the idea of a benchtop mounted unit seems to be a good starting place. Something like this seems to hit a good price/performance target:
https://www.eastwood.com/benchtop-english-wheel.html
It also appears that to perform that same function, a Planishing Hammer is pretty useful as well. Perhaps not quite as appropriate for LONG parts as the traditional English Wheel, but for most smaller pieces this is just another way to either smooth bumps out of a hammerformed piece, or even to start from scratch and make bowl or curved patch panels.
These can be picked up dirt cheap or super-expensively and since what I really need is experience to "know what I don't know" about them, it's tempting to get get a cheap one and just start practicing.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200659556_200659556
From there, a few smaller specialty items would be nice like a set of shrinker / stretchers for making curved flanges. I'm tempted to go with a pedestal style on this one since it won't take up too much room and having a foot pedal would leave both hands free to hold the parts and do a more careful job.
There might be a cheaper foot-operated option out there, but this is the basic idea:
https://www.trick-tools.com/MetalAce_Shrinker_Stretcher_Deluxe_Kit_SSF2005_Kit_953
And finally..... paging @Deuling a power operated beadroller of some kind.... because I always work alone in my shop and it seems impossible to get a smooth bead if one arm is reaching and struggling to crank that handle while also trying to feed material in a nice straight line. This one is definitely expensive but maybe there is a cheaper way to get into a decent one?
https://www.baileigh.com/bead-roller-br-18e-36
Current thought process is that a planishing hammer can probably do almost everything that the English Wheel can, but it's REALLY noisy.... so it might not work with my schedule where I only can work late evenings and Charlie is trying to sleep directly above the garage space. Maybe English Wheel is a better option in those cases where I need to do quieter and more peaceful fabrication?
Anyway, the entry-level kits for the English Whee and Planisher seem cheap enough that I could get started and build some experience and may even feel like those tools are more than adequate... and save precious floor space in the process.
If anyone has any links to particular models that they like, please post them up. Also, if my assumptions about the English Wheel vs Planisher are incorrect, please let me know that too. I suspect I'll be buying a low-cost version of each so it's probably not an "either / or" type decision for me.... but would be good to confirm my basic understanding of these two tools.
-G
beags86
Eastbound and Down
Planishing hammers and English wheels aren't either/or. They work together to smooth steel.2020.03.15 - UPDATE!!! - TOOL SHOPPING
As I get back into the workshop, and start remember where things left off it seems like there are a few areas where extra tools are needed.
Specifically, it's been a goal of mine to get into the classic discipline of metalshaping... hammering and smoothing metal and making curved shapes that are needed instead of trying to simply find a donor panel a curve that might work and trying to weld/graft into place.
Been spending a lot of time on YouTube watching videos and trying to put a list of "must have" tools together and figuring out a budget.
The first tool seemed like it had to be the English Wheel. Prices vary wildly based on throat depth and strength but since the objective is to preserve as much floorspace as possible, the idea of a benchtop mounted unit seems to be a good starting place. Something like this seems to hit a good price/performance target:
https://www.eastwood.com/benchtop-english-wheel.html
It also appears that to perform that same function, a Planishing Hammer is pretty useful as well. Perhaps not quite as appropriate for LONG parts as the traditional English Wheel, but for most smaller pieces this is just another way to either smooth bumps out of a hammerformed piece, or even to start from scratch and make bowl or curved patch panels.
These can be picked up dirt cheap or super-expensively and since what I really need is experience to "know what I don't know" about them, it's tempting to get get a cheap one and just start practicing.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200659556_200659556
From there, a few smaller specialty items would be nice like a set of shrinker / stretchers for making curved flanges. I'm tempted to go with a pedestal style on this one since it won't take up too much room and having a foot pedal would leave both hands free to hold the parts and do a more careful job.
There might be a cheaper foot-operated option out there, but this is the basic idea:
https://www.trick-tools.com/MetalAce_Shrinker_Stretcher_Deluxe_Kit_SSF2005_Kit_953
And finally..... paging @Deuling a power operated beadroller of some kind.... because I always work alone in my shop and it seems impossible to get a smooth bead if one arm is reaching and struggling to crank that handle while also trying to feed material in a nice straight line. This one is definitely expensive but maybe there is a cheaper way to get into a decent one?
https://www.baileigh.com/bead-roller-br-18e-36
Current thought process is that a planishing hammer can probably do almost everything that the English Wheel can, but it's REALLY noisy.... so it might not work with my schedule where I only can work late evenings and Charlie is trying to sleep directly above the garage space. Maybe English Wheel is a better option in those cases where I need to do quieter and more peaceful fabrication?
Anyway, the entry-level kits for the English Whee and Planisher seem cheap enough that I could get started and build some experience and may even feel like those tools are more than adequate... and save precious floor space in the process.
If anyone has any links to particular models that they like, please post them up. Also, if my assumptions about the English Wheel vs Planisher are incorrect, please let me know that too. I suspect I'll be buying a low-cost version of each so it's probably not an "either / or" type decision for me.... but would be good to confirm my basic understanding of these two tools.
-G
Typically you take some sheet metal and take it to the hammer and bean bag.
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-panelbeater-sandbag-and-teardrop-mallet.html
Make your rough shape, then move to your planishing hammer and then move to your english wheel.
For a shrinker/stretcher, I have this guy.
I haven't used it much but it seems to every bit as nice as the Mittler Bros ones I used in school. I took a sheet metal class with Gene Winfield at Eastwood and for people taking that class everything in store was 20% off. I know they have lots of sales for things if you can be patient
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-e...rinker-stretcher-and-foot-operated-stand.html
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I've got the Eastwood shrinker/stretcher, the vise mounted ones. From the specs on the one you linked, it looks to be the same, just handle operated.
https://www.eastwood.com/shrinker-stretcher-combo-set-two-bodies-two-jaws.html
I used it to recreate the fresh air ducts and most of the windshield flange on my 70 Jimmy. Results were easy to get with very little wasted material on practice pieces. Learning curve was very short. Biggest thing to remember is take small "bites". Anything too large will tear the metal or bunch it up. Biggest surprise to me was the amount of effort required. For some reason I thought there would be more mechanical advantage, still very manageable with one hand while holding the work piece with the other. I don't know if I could justify the added expense of the one you linked vs. what I spent on the Eastwood ones. Unless I missed that the throat depth was different, they look to be the same.
If you plan any serious work with it (shrinker/stretcher), one of the tools that goes with it is a brake. Having a nice flange bent to whatever angle you need is a must.
I bought this one, also from Eastwood.
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-12-inch-box-and-pan-sheet-metal-brake.html
This is one area I wish I would have went bigger. It works fine with the material I use, but the added width would be nice. Was still a solid buy and I've used it way more than I thought I would. I was actually surprised by the quality of it and fit/finish of it.
https://www.eastwood.com/shrinker-stretcher-combo-set-two-bodies-two-jaws.html
I used it to recreate the fresh air ducts and most of the windshield flange on my 70 Jimmy. Results were easy to get with very little wasted material on practice pieces. Learning curve was very short. Biggest thing to remember is take small "bites". Anything too large will tear the metal or bunch it up. Biggest surprise to me was the amount of effort required. For some reason I thought there would be more mechanical advantage, still very manageable with one hand while holding the work piece with the other. I don't know if I could justify the added expense of the one you linked vs. what I spent on the Eastwood ones. Unless I missed that the throat depth was different, they look to be the same.
If you plan any serious work with it (shrinker/stretcher), one of the tools that goes with it is a brake. Having a nice flange bent to whatever angle you need is a must.
I bought this one, also from Eastwood.
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-12-inch-box-and-pan-sheet-metal-brake.html
This is one area I wish I would have went bigger. It works fine with the material I use, but the added width would be nice. Was still a solid buy and I've used it way more than I thought I would. I was actually surprised by the quality of it and fit/finish of it.
beags86
Eastbound and Down
That's actually the biggest reason to get a foot pedal/stand your legs are stronger then your arms. Plus if you have a bigger piece of material then your free to hold, move, and position the material with both hands. While pushing down with your foot.
2020.03.17 - UPDATE! - FOLLOWING THE WILLOMET RULE #2
There really is progress almost every day... though I don't always think of it in such flattering terms.
A small list of things accomplished that didn't feel "CK5 Update Worthy"
1. Install new air distribution lines from the compressor to the front of the shop
2. Rehang my 50' airline reel and connect to dryer and hard lines
3. Rehang my overhead electrical cord reel
4. Replace the defective power switch on my upright compressor with the improved design
5. Convert my 20" disc sander from 110V to 220V and preserve the ability to run CW or CCW rotation
6. Modify another cheap HF furniture moving dolly to become a rolling base for the 20-Ton Hydraulic Press
It all helps, and it's all important but what I really wanted to do was get back to something more substantial on the Blazer and it felt like rehanging the exhaust system underneath would be an easy victory and a confidence builder as I dipped my toe back into the build process.
The parts were pulled down from the rafters, and fortunately had been clearly marked prior to the big TX move.
It's basically a front muffler, into a crazy over-the-frame transition pipe, then into the 2nd muffler before travelling over the rear axle and dumping out the rear corners (like stock!)
What was not expected was that the original installation happened BEFORE the new rear bedfloor was installed, making the whole process a lot more complicated to reach but it held a darker secret: The original exhaust routing did not actually have enough clearance over the rear axle at full-stuff. The only explanation is that since the rear ORIs had never been installed through the floor, the estimation of what "full bump" would look like and how much space the bedfloor would block-out, was not fully understood. But once the parts started going up to be assembled, it was clear that they were NOT going to fit as originally designed and built.
Knowing how much work was about to ensue, it was WAY easier to decide to just pull the entire rollcage out... yank the bedfloor out of the way... and modify the exhaust properly.
Charlie (now Age 9 for those keeping track) was a great help in removing the bolts.
The overhead hoist made quick work of the lifting duties.
And the floor was pulled out and stored on the other side of the shop. It's nice to have a bit more room than the old shop!
After looking at it for a while, the biggest problem was in the area of the second muffler. There IS enough space to sneak a 3" exhaust over the portal axle housing (barely) but the angle was all wrong (see left side of muffler) and it would have been crushed on bump travel. Angling the muffler to run along the framerail (instead of parallel to the bedfloor) and a few well-placed bend segments should resolve the issue, and it's so much easier working with the bedfloor removed. Otherwise this would have been miserable.
Final shot of the night (from up in the "Danger Zone"!) This shows the full layout a bit more clearly and where the issues are now.
A couple of tools were ordered last night as well. The planishing hammer and foot operated shrinker / stretcher from Eastwood are on their way and should be here by Friday. It wasn't clear if the Covid-19 panic would delay shipments but the Fed-Ex tracking numbers came through today and the boxes are en route.... can't wait!
-G
There really is progress almost every day... though I don't always think of it in such flattering terms.
A small list of things accomplished that didn't feel "CK5 Update Worthy"
1. Install new air distribution lines from the compressor to the front of the shop
2. Rehang my 50' airline reel and connect to dryer and hard lines
3. Rehang my overhead electrical cord reel
4. Replace the defective power switch on my upright compressor with the improved design
5. Convert my 20" disc sander from 110V to 220V and preserve the ability to run CW or CCW rotation
6. Modify another cheap HF furniture moving dolly to become a rolling base for the 20-Ton Hydraulic Press
It all helps, and it's all important but what I really wanted to do was get back to something more substantial on the Blazer and it felt like rehanging the exhaust system underneath would be an easy victory and a confidence builder as I dipped my toe back into the build process.
The parts were pulled down from the rafters, and fortunately had been clearly marked prior to the big TX move.
It's basically a front muffler, into a crazy over-the-frame transition pipe, then into the 2nd muffler before travelling over the rear axle and dumping out the rear corners (like stock!)
What was not expected was that the original installation happened BEFORE the new rear bedfloor was installed, making the whole process a lot more complicated to reach but it held a darker secret: The original exhaust routing did not actually have enough clearance over the rear axle at full-stuff. The only explanation is that since the rear ORIs had never been installed through the floor, the estimation of what "full bump" would look like and how much space the bedfloor would block-out, was not fully understood. But once the parts started going up to be assembled, it was clear that they were NOT going to fit as originally designed and built.
Knowing how much work was about to ensue, it was WAY easier to decide to just pull the entire rollcage out... yank the bedfloor out of the way... and modify the exhaust properly.
Charlie (now Age 9 for those keeping track) was a great help in removing the bolts.
The overhead hoist made quick work of the lifting duties.
And the floor was pulled out and stored on the other side of the shop. It's nice to have a bit more room than the old shop!
After looking at it for a while, the biggest problem was in the area of the second muffler. There IS enough space to sneak a 3" exhaust over the portal axle housing (barely) but the angle was all wrong (see left side of muffler) and it would have been crushed on bump travel. Angling the muffler to run along the framerail (instead of parallel to the bedfloor) and a few well-placed bend segments should resolve the issue, and it's so much easier working with the bedfloor removed. Otherwise this would have been miserable.
Final shot of the night (from up in the "Danger Zone"!) This shows the full layout a bit more clearly and where the issues are now.
A couple of tools were ordered last night as well. The planishing hammer and foot operated shrinker / stretcher from Eastwood are on their way and should be here by Friday. It wasn't clear if the Covid-19 panic would delay shipments but the Fed-Ex tracking numbers came through today and the boxes are en route.... can't wait!
-G
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Outstanding! Lots of circles overlapping in that Venn diagram:
David
- Working on your truck
- In your new space
- With your boy
David
