'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build

[Greg72]

Real-time pics....

Fully stuffed at 5.5"

Interferences on frame and oil pan. Is it worth trying for another 1/2"?

Good news. The frame side heims are nowhere near the tranny pan even fully stuffed. I get to keep my negative roll axis (-3*).


-G

 

[blazinzuk]

I don't think so.

Uptravel is something that I have had rigs that had a ton of it and some that haven't had much of it. They act different.

Not worse not better, just different.

Although I don't do a ton of high speed humpin, I like to hump rocks more slow, than say Brandon who prefers his humpin fast and hard.

For high speed stuff every 1/8 you can get is important

 

[miniwally]

I think even I would stop where your at for up travel Greg. I'm actually kind of wondering how it's all going to work in Articulation with the upper link mount on the axle being above the frame at full stuff both sides. The upper mount is going to move in some arc and might get real close to the frame or engine or the upper link might get close to either of those.

I would honestly plan on plating the frame in and giving yourself a 1/4" or so clearance from the axle to the oil pan. Then start looking at the track bar and steering to make sure you can hit that hole with the upper link arm mount.

Your getting there. Keep turning circles.

 

[Greg72]

FINAL NUMBERS FROM TODAY:

I bumped the engine up just a bit more, and it's now sitting at about 2.5* angle overall. Not bad considering that most factory engine setups are closer to 4* of angularity.

With that change, I was able to get to a full 6" of bump travel and still have about 1/4" of clearance at the oilpan. That's nice too because the ORIs require about 5.75 - 6" of stickout for their 14" travel version.... Now I don't have to worry about ordering something "custom built" to address my lack of uptravel.

Brandon called it.... At this point, my biggest concern is going to be the upper link mount and the way it will swing in the limited space between the framerail and engine block. I won't be able to judge it accurately until I have the panhard installed since that will determine how gentle (or radical) of an arc the axle will follow under articulation.

Here's a parting shot of the area. I finally got smart and removed the radiator so I could work in that area more easily.

For the foreseeable future I have the front suspension locked in the "full stuff" position. (this is how all the cool kids seem to do their builds!) I've got quite a bit to do before I can cycle the suspension in any meaningful way:

1. Figure out steering box location and pitman arm length required for maximum steering angle
2. Hang panhard based on draglink position
3. Figure out Ackermann to determine if steering arms and tie rod need to go in front of axle or behind it. (believe it or not, there seems to be room behind the axle!)
4. Re-assemble cleaned up portal knuckle
5. Disassemble original portal knuckle, clean, paint and reassemble
6. Hang portal boxes on both sides, install disc brake kit parts.
7. Mount tires/wheels so I can look for other glaring suspension clearance issues.

I have to admit, the progress today has me feeling pretty pumped about the possibility of getting this truck on all fours in the not-to-distant future.

-G

 

[miniwally]

-G

That is a tight fricken hole to get the upper to hit. Better put a bit o hair around that one. But I bet it can be done Good luck

Good on you Greg.

 

[blazinzuk]

Gonna have to have a bullseye on that hole

At least with how I think your panhard is going to end up it will get closer to the frame side which can be modified, kind of hard to cut a little chunk of engine off for suspension clearance

 

[Greg72]

I'm sad to admit that today was the first time I remembered that the upper link is now taking up all the real estate that I had set aside for my VintageAir AC compressor...

Guess relocating that compressor will be a fun project for some other day.... Later, much later.

Yep, I'm really going to be threading the needle with that upper link. But I'm not afraid to move the entire mount closer to the frame (if needed) and then do some substantial surgery to the framerail to push it over further if I need to. The engine block is a non-negotiable obstacle so the only way to move is outward.....

Thanks for all the help and encouragement guys. It really helps keep me focused and motivated.


-G

 

[miniwally]

You can actually offset the engine, in the buggy world these days it's not that uncommon to get a bit better clearance for the driveshaft and pumpkin. You can see why.

If I were you I would be looking at having the track-bar/panhard start moving the axle to the passenger side, the break over and pull it back towards the drivers side. Meaning the axle end will need to be higher than the frame end at full bump. BUT the drag link will be dictating this in reality.

 

[ashman]

I'm a numbskull compared to you guys here, but first thing I saw in that pic was the outlet for your water pump. isn't your lower radiator hose going to be right where your upper link is now?

 

[Greg72]

Ash,

If you look carefully at the first photo in Post #2061 (iPad zoom works great!) you can see that the water pump outlet is forward of the upper bracket. There isn't a whole lot of clearance, but it's got a pretty clean shot towards the radiator.

Photos tend to collapse the depth-of-field and screw up the perspective.... Or maybe I'm just a lousy photographer. Im sure Sean could give me some pointers, he's the resident photo guru around these parts.

I just snap stuff with my iPhone because it's fast and simple and the images are usually pretty crisp for forum usage.



-G

 

[dremu]

Circle jerk indeed.

I prefer the term clusterfsck (which Greg, you should get why that's funny on many levels, not least that "cluster" is an NTFS construct and fsck wouldn't generally see use on it then...)

But now you're up to relo'ing the AC compressor to get the suspension at full stuff, so the circle or cluster or whatever you wanna call it not only encompasses the suspension and frame and the motor but the accessories and the plumbing to boot.

You're gonna need a bigger notebook to track all that!

I like to hump rocks more slow, than say Brandon who prefers his humpin fast and hard.

That there is sig material.

-- A

 

[ashman]

Ash,

If you look carefully at the first photo in Post #2061 (iPad zoom works great!) you can see that the water pump outlet is forward of the upper bracket. There isn't a whole lot of clearance, but it's got a pretty clean shot towards the radiator.

yeah, I see it now. crazy how that depth perception gets thrown off. in the pic I linked it actually looks like the bracket is a lot closer to the camera than the pump is.

 

[cybrfire]

As if it weren't already becoming obvious from my passenger-side motor mount creation, this photo of the drivers side header clearance (HA!) should remove all doubt that outboard headers are probably in my future. That's about 1" of clearance between link and the header. (Kert, I'll give you a call sometime for tips... )


-G

Anytime. More than happy to help if and where I can.

 

[Greg72]

Scout PS Box vs. Saginaw PS Box....???

Anyone know the differences between these two boxes? Links to specs, etc?

I like that the Scout box has a longer sector shaft so that the main part of the box sits on top of the frame instead of beside it. Should improve tire clearance and maybe give a more direct shot into the box from the firewall? It seems that I'd have extra flexibility to rotate the box slightly forward or backward too depending on how I wanted the pitman arm angle to look. For packaging, that could prove to be important later on. Does anyone know if the Scout box uses the same splines as the GM stuff or is totally different? I don't know if anyone has ever broached their own splines into a thick piece of bar stock and built a pitman arm for the exact drop/swing they needed.... But I'll bet it's possible.

No idea if they are considered to be stronger, weaker than a Saginaw? I plan to use hydro-assist, so some of the stress will be removed from the box itself. I noticed that Howe offers the Scout box, but doesn't show a Saginaw on their site.

I am searching on my iPad here at home and the Howe site must use Flash, because I can't navigate through it completely...



Ideas?

 

[blazinzuk]

I don't know if the scout box uses the same splines but it has the same problem as the Ford box that is very similar, tends to break the sector shaft off in the box. Mainly because it is so long.

Although in your situation it might be the thing to use.

I have used a couple over the years never really had a problem but I do know people who have snapped the sector shafts

 

[imiceman44]

Scout PS Box vs. Saginaw PS Box....???

Anyone know the differences between these two boxes? Links to specs, etc?

I like that the Scout box has a longer sector shaft so that the main part of the box sits on top of the frame instead of beside it. Should improve tire clearance and maybe give a more direct shot into the box from the firewall? It seems that I'd have extra flexibility to rotate the box slightly forward or backward too depending on how I wanted the pitman arm angle to look. For packaging, that could prove to be important later on. Does anyone know if the Scout box uses the same splines as the GM stuff or is totally different? I don't know if anyone has ever broached their own splines into a thick piece of bar stock and built a pitman arm for the exact drop/swing they needed.... But I'll bet it's possible.

No idea if they are considered to be stronger, weaker than a Saginaw? I plan to use hydro-assist, so some of the stress will be removed from the box itself. I noticed that Howe offers the Scout box, but doesn't show a Saginaw on their site.

I am searching on my iPad here at home and the Howe site must use Flash, because I can't navigate through it completely...



Ideas?

Yeah get a tablet.

 

[blazinzuk]

Oh and lots of guys build their own pitman arms, not even a terribly unusual thing anymore.

Just search fabricated pitman arm for ideas.

The Scout box is a Saginaw box I think our saginaws are called 525s? I actually think thats the inside frame ones for Jeeps and such don't remember.

The actual steering gear of the scout box is just as strong as a normal saginaw box

 

[Greg72]

Yeah get a tablet.

Got one..... Collecting dust in the junk room. Thanks though!

-G

 

[AJs72K5]

All this link geometry is beyond me. Geez, I have a computer science degree and took some mechanical engineering classes in college.

But, I digress... OK...stupid question. Looking at your upper link on the pumpkin, if you're at full compression on the driver side, and full droop on the passenger side, won't that link be stuffed into the frame rail due to the rotation? I realize the axis of rotation is a foot or so to the driver side from the link mount, but still...??

 

[Greg72]

AJ,

I think the worst case scenario is both sides fully stuffed, then let the PS start to droop while holding the DS all the way up. That should be the most severe angle against the frame.

Definitely going to have some interferences to deal with.

-G