There is a lot going on under there.
CK5
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'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
This is the build description. I will improve this later. (GB)
I may be missing the obvious but I don't see how the side tanks are connected to the main tank with the exhaust routed there.
I do prefer the idea of running the pipes to the back. I was thinking the exhaust might kiss a rock if it was directly behind the tire.
...maybe consider the idea of having a Tank A and a Tank B with separate pumps. This gives a little redundancy if one pump fails.
I do prefer the idea of running the pipes to the back. I was thinking the exhaust might kiss a rock if it was directly behind the tire.
...maybe consider the idea of having a Tank A and a Tank B with separate pumps. This gives a little redundancy if one pump fails.
So does anything mount to that boringly straight crossmember behind the tank.
I refer to only in between the frame rails.
I refer to only in between the frame rails.
I'll second that with some real life experience. When mine were run that way it was constant fumes in the truck. Out the side, behind the rear tires is the way to go. If you have to make the tanks smaller to do that I think it just is what has to be done.
On a semi with two separate 100 gallon fuel tanks, I can completely fill the driver side tank, and leave the fuel station with a fuel gauge reading full. It is several miles down the road before the two tanks even out with the crossover hose, and the fuel gauge goes down......
Martin
Martin
Good feedback everyone!
So.... just to clarify, my intention was never to run the exhaust straight out the back. The photo makes it look like that's where my thought process was going, but if I did run the tailpipe under the framerail it would still need to make a sharp 90-degree turn to send it out the side of the truck (like "stock")
The exhaust can also still make a sharp turn BEFORE the fuel tank and sneak under the framerail just before it starts to slope downward toward the rear bumper. It would certainly have a much smaller chance of heating the fuel, though it would not be as well-protected from rocks, etc.... it's going to come down to choosing the best combination of compromises.
@blazinzuk: I think I see where you are heading with your question about another rear crossmember. Yes, the original Ryoken Green "Hidden Hitch" will get bolted back in there... but the amount of space behind it will be very limited. I think you were hinting at more of an "L-shaped" center tank which would allow me to gain a bit more capacity..... again though, I think it's the balancing act of a simple tank design (simple rectangle) vs a more complex tank with more welding, bends and time to construct.
The hardest part is that I don't have good dimensions for the location of the rear bumper yet.... obviously, there is a lip at the bottom of the bumper that is going to get hung-up on obstacles no matter how thin I manage to make this tank.... it might make MORE sense to design it so that a skidplate will come smoothly off the underside of that bumper and then proceed downward toward the axle at some kind of reasonable taper.... there is probably value in looking at the departure angle (from the underside of the pumpkin to the underside of the rear bumper) since it would probably be a LOT smoother to sliiiiide off a rock and down a long, tapered skidplate than just clearing the rock and then getting the rear bumper hung up as I drive forward. If I can drop a sheet of MDF in place to represent that angle, ALL of the space above it is fair game for the fuel tank.... and that could be a substantially larger center tank than what I have now. It might even allow me to reduce the size of the saddle tanks, change their angles, depths, etc. in whatever ways are necessary to help get the exhaust out the sides more easily.
(IMPORTANT DETAIL: The framehorns in my photo are WAY longer now than they will actually be with the body and bumper attached. Since I didn't have a good dimension to work with, I just added like 6" of extra material to be safe. Most of that area in the photos won't actually be available to extend the fuel tank into.)
This "mock up" phase is really helpful.... I've already moved from that long "coffin design" tank, to a triple-tank idea... and now it sounds like I can refine things even more and maybe find an even more elegant way to solve the problem.
-G
So.... just to clarify, my intention was never to run the exhaust straight out the back. The photo makes it look like that's where my thought process was going, but if I did run the tailpipe under the framerail it would still need to make a sharp 90-degree turn to send it out the side of the truck (like "stock")
The exhaust can also still make a sharp turn BEFORE the fuel tank and sneak under the framerail just before it starts to slope downward toward the rear bumper. It would certainly have a much smaller chance of heating the fuel, though it would not be as well-protected from rocks, etc.... it's going to come down to choosing the best combination of compromises.
@blazinzuk: I think I see where you are heading with your question about another rear crossmember. Yes, the original Ryoken Green "Hidden Hitch" will get bolted back in there... but the amount of space behind it will be very limited. I think you were hinting at more of an "L-shaped" center tank which would allow me to gain a bit more capacity..... again though, I think it's the balancing act of a simple tank design (simple rectangle) vs a more complex tank with more welding, bends and time to construct.
The hardest part is that I don't have good dimensions for the location of the rear bumper yet.... obviously, there is a lip at the bottom of the bumper that is going to get hung-up on obstacles no matter how thin I manage to make this tank.... it might make MORE sense to design it so that a skidplate will come smoothly off the underside of that bumper and then proceed downward toward the axle at some kind of reasonable taper.... there is probably value in looking at the departure angle (from the underside of the pumpkin to the underside of the rear bumper) since it would probably be a LOT smoother to sliiiiide off a rock and down a long, tapered skidplate than just clearing the rock and then getting the rear bumper hung up as I drive forward. If I can drop a sheet of MDF in place to represent that angle, ALL of the space above it is fair game for the fuel tank.... and that could be a substantially larger center tank than what I have now. It might even allow me to reduce the size of the saddle tanks, change their angles, depths, etc. in whatever ways are necessary to help get the exhaust out the sides more easily.
(IMPORTANT DETAIL: The framehorns in my photo are WAY longer now than they will actually be with the body and bumper attached. Since I didn't have a good dimension to work with, I just added like 6" of extra material to be safe. Most of that area in the photos won't actually be available to extend the fuel tank into.)
This "mock up" phase is really helpful.... I've already moved from that long "coffin design" tank, to a triple-tank idea... and now it sounds like I can refine things even more and maybe find an even more elegant way to solve the problem.
-G
Why not just convert the whole thing over to solar over electric and maybe a hydrogen generator in there too and you won't even need a gas tank or exh hahaha 
and then the greenies can be happy while you drive on their precious dirt
and then the greenies can be happy while you drive on their precious dirt
Why not just convert the whole thing over to solar over electric and maybe a hydrogen generator in there too and you won't even need a gas tank or exh hahaha
When I'm dead and gone, Charlie will need to take this build forward with his own ideas and creativity.... the technology will certainly be more mature and accessible.
Never say never.
-G
Just trying to get creative with the fuel tank/exh ideas.
What happened to BB18 if now you say Charlie has to finish this?????
I'm just talking about moving that crossmember that the tank is butting up to.
I would imagine you might only need a couple of inches to hit 30 gallons plus. It could still be a very square tank.
The more I think about wheeling and what I have hit and seen others hit the less and less I like the saddle tanks. If you take your total amount of seams adding a taper in the center tank vs 3 tanks is substantially less seams. In addition to hoses vents etc on the 3 tanks.
I know most consider your build complicated but I look at it a little different. I kind of look at it as the best way to come to a good solution. Some things might take a ridiculous amount of time to perfect but they are really a simple solution. Your wheels being a perfect example. There was a stupid amount of time but it really is a simple solution to a problem. Sometimes simple requires way more work
I would imagine you might only need a couple of inches to hit 30 gallons plus. It could still be a very square tank.
The more I think about wheeling and what I have hit and seen others hit the less and less I like the saddle tanks. If you take your total amount of seams adding a taper in the center tank vs 3 tanks is substantially less seams. In addition to hoses vents etc on the 3 tanks.
I know most consider your build complicated but I look at it a little different. I kind of look at it as the best way to come to a good solution. Some things might take a ridiculous amount of time to perfect but they are really a simple solution. Your wheels being a perfect example. There was a stupid amount of time but it really is a simple solution to a problem. Sometimes simple requires way more work
Also remember my wheeling usually involves someone saying hey Eric think you can do this line?
To which I usually respond yep. Even if I can't we might learn some new winching techniques!
To which I usually respond yep. Even if I can't we might learn some new winching techniques!
I'm finishing it in the next 809 days...... if it's going to run on solar / wind / nuclear / hydrogen / unicorn farts.... that's something Charlie will have to take ownership of and rework the truck as he sees fit.
Hmmm..... interesting idea.
As you can probably see the 72" crossmember is really just there to give me a solid way to tie the C-pillar cage points (and the #5 bedfloor bodymounts) back into the frame so that they are structural and not just "cosmetic"... That said, there might be another way to still bring those points to the frame, but replace the center part of that bar with the rear Ryoken Green crossmember (which is all 1/4"-wall 3.5 x 3.5" square tube anyway) and then steal back that space for the fuel tank.
I'll take a fresh look at that next time I'm in the garage.
-G
Dude... just run one center tank and be done with it! If you need more fuel for some reason, carry something like this on extended trips.
And if it's a really long trip add one of these.
And if it's a really long trip add one of these.
I think folken has the right idea. Make one large tank notched for the framerails. Sacrifice some of the front edge of the saddle tanks for the exhaust (you'll regain some running under the framerails) and run the exhaust behind the tire.
Dude... just run one center tank and be done with it! If you need more fuel for some reason, carry something like this on extended trips.
And if it's a really long trip add one of these.
@CK5
The first one misses the point completely, and makes me as sad as 20-Posts-Per-Page....
but then you posted that second one.... (And in the infamous words of Harry Dunne)
".....AND TOTALLY REDEEMED YOURSELF!!!!"
Just in time for "Martini Night" too.
-G
I don't necessarily disagree with the concept, but that's a long way from a "simple" 6-sided tank design.
....and it's about 225 Lbs-worth of fuel in a single container, which is going to put a lot more pressure (pun intended) on me to flange, weld and brace it perfectly to prevent leaks..... and/or get an ATL-style bladder custom made which has got to be a small fortune once you start asking them to follow a crazy-shaped fuel cell like that!!!
-G
I see the points of failure adding more tanks to the system.. that is not good considering the location of the tank.. (the rear) its proximity to rocks and dirt and the exhaust issue. In addition regardless of your methods of trying to cool the fuel down there is still the problem of Hot fuel ending a good day.. as good as fuel injection is there is very little you can do once the fuel gets hot, and will be much worse at elevation.
There has to be a much simpler solution to this problem. Where else can you position a tank in the truck? Even just as a transfer tank. What kind of range are you after? I cant imagine with that motor you getting much better than 10mpg?? Even with 30 gallons you might squeak 250 out of it?
There has to be a much simpler solution to this problem. Where else can you position a tank in the truck? Even just as a transfer tank. What kind of range are you after? I cant imagine with that motor you getting much better than 10mpg?? Even with 30 gallons you might squeak 250 out of it?
This...
I keep picturing the larger aftermarket tanks made for the 01-10 Duramax short bed trucks: http://www.xtremediesel.com/titan-7010301-62-gallon-mid-ship-replacement-tank.aspx
These have a huge notch - but are still connected and "one" tank.
The outfit that I got my oversized tank from (I realize my tank hangs down too low for your liking) sold off that portion of their business - but it looks like the new company can assist with design / build (if you so desired...) http://www.sunsetmetalfab.net/page008.html
