'74 K5 build: Smurf

[dremu]

Since she's now drivable (woooohoooo!) I can finally get back to doing upgrades. I'd planned to put a bench seat up front, tying the mounting for it and the harnesses into the cage. I finally got around to testfitting the bench -- got one from a mid-70's pickup, and, dammit, there's no way it'll fit.

It actually looks okay in this pic, but the bench is friggin hooge, and there's no way it'll mount to the cage. I could try a smaller bench seat, but after fiddling with it, I really couldn't find much wrong with the existing buckets.

I'll keep the buckets then, and just mount them to the cage. I started on the cage mounts today:

The angle is weird so it's a bit of an optical illusion; the bars are the same height in the center. (The front runner has to rise up over the tranny hump.)

Sticking with the buckets also means I could do a console between them, so I have some options.

The factory brackets are too tall to mount to the cage, and I'd have to chop them all to hell to keep the factory sliding mechanism. Plus that's only on the driver's side; the passenger side only flips forward on this era trucks and has no actual adjustment

I am hoping to fab up some sliding tracks that are low enough profile to fit. Rather than a spring-loaded lever arrangement like the factory, I'm thinking of just a series of holes drilled to allow multiple positions. I then bolt the seat into the preferred position, but it can move for other drivers or if I change my mind later. Could even set it up to allow for some vertical adjustment, ooh!

More pix to come when I get the seat brackets done up, and then the cage will come out in the next week or so, weld up the seat mounts, prolly a crossbar for the harness shoulder pieces, and some other assorted tweaks (including, say, a new coat of paint!)

-- A

 

[imiceman44]

Is the bench seat too wide?
Did you try the rear bench?
I have a fold and tumble rear seat, if you can use your rear in the front and I can give you my rear for the rear where it can fold for more space in the back when needed.
I also have some sliders from some seats I had for benches if you want to try and fab some for your bench.

Since she's now drivable (woooohoooo!) I can finally get back to doing upgrades. I'd planned to put a bench seat up front, tying the mounting for it and the harnesses into the cage. I finally got around to testfitting the bench -- got one from a mid-70's pickup, and, dammit, there's no way it'll fit.

It actually looks okay in this pic, but the bench is friggin hooge, and there's no way it'll mount to the cage. I could try a smaller bench seat, but after fiddling with it, I really couldn't find much wrong with the existing buckets.

I'll keep the buckets then, and just mount them to the cage. I started on the cage mounts today:

The angle is weird so it's a bit of an optical illusion; the bars are the same height in the center. (The front runner has to rise up over the tranny hump.)

Sticking with the buckets also means I could do a console between them, so I have some options.

The factory brackets are too tall to mount to the cage, and I'd have to chop them all to hell to keep the factory sliding mechanism. Plus that's only on the driver's side; the passenger side only flips forward on this era trucks and has no actual adjustment

I am hoping to fab up some sliding tracks that are low enough profile to fit. Rather than a spring-loaded lever arrangement like the factory, I'm thinking of just a series of holes drilled to allow multiple positions. I then bolt the seat into the preferred position, but it can move for other drivers or if I change my mind later. Could even set it up to allow for some vertical adjustment, ooh!

More pix to come when I get the seat brackets done up, and then the cage will come out in the next week or so, weld up the seat mounts, prolly a crossbar for the harness shoulder pieces, and some other assorted tweaks (including, say, a new coat of paint!)

-- A

 

[dremu]

Is the bench seat too wide?
Did you try the rear bench?
I have a fold and tumble rear seat, if you can use your rear in the front and I can give you my rear for the rear where it can fold for more space in the back when needed.
I also have some sliders from some seats I had for benches if you want to try and fab some for your bench.

Width actually is the one dimension it's good on =)) It's a smidge too deep and gets really close to the shifters. The worst however is height, and some lack of planning in the cagework so that it would mount to the floor okay but not the cage.

I think I've got the bucket mounts sorted out, with some adjustability; I'll post up pix at some point.

I'm still debating whether I want a rear seat, but I'll keep that fold-n-tumble in mind, might be a good thing. Thanks!

-- A

 

[colbystephens]

I can give you my rear for the rear where it can fold for more space in the back when needed.

 

[dremu]

I can give you my rear for the rear where it can fold for more space in the back when needed.

Now now.

Issam's working on his second kid, I do believe, so his rear belongs entirely to his wife now

-- A

 

[colbystephens]

I think you misunderstand the process.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

 

[dremu]

I think you misunderstand the process.

Well, I figure marriage means She Who Must Be Obeyed owns the man's harbls, so she prolly owns that which is south of his harbls too. What do I know, having exactly no successful marriages in my dark and mysterious past ANYWAY, no more discussion of men's naughty bits.

So, today we continue building the seat frame. For the n00bs, the point of this is to tie the seat and restraints (belts or harnesses) to the cage, rather than the body. The idea is that, in case of impact or creative driving maneuver, the sheetmetal may bend or shift, but the occupants stay safe inside the cage, a self-contained unit with occupants, seat, and restraints around which the body may shift or smash.

The worst thing you could do would be to leave the seats attached to the floor, for instance, and then bolt the shoulder belts to the cage; in a crash, the belts could then decapitate as the seats went one direction and the cage another.

Plus, it's an excuse to crank up the tunes and burn metal! There is something infinitely satisfying about welding ... maybe it's the heat, maybe it's the sparks, maybe it's the opportunity to injure myself in new and creative ways Doesn't really matter why.

Today, btw, the playlist started with Chickenfoot. Satch's guitar, maybe taken down a notch or two down to over-the-top, as opposed to his usual over-the-top-and-eleven-miles-beyond, works well with Sammy beltin' his heart out. Too bad I don't drink tequila. (Obviously I'm kidding as alcohol and power tools don't mix -- never drink and weld! )

Here we have the more manual variety of tool, what we call the poor man's bending brake. Also known as the budget press, the vise serves many purposes, including workpiece holder, surface damager, and thumb destroyer (especially when coupled with the mini sledge )

Here I've made some angle brackets out of flat stock. These are then trimmed to the angle of the seat:

and then welded to some angle, which will serve as the front-to-back slider:

There's also a piece of ~1/2" flat stock welded onto the back of the bracket, perpendicular, to keep them from swaying side-to-side. (See the bottom one in the next pic.) It's likely overkill, but a little extra beef can't hurt.

I am getting good use out of my welding table this week! Here's the finished result on the seat:

 

[dremu]

Next up there's track to put onto the cage runners. This is some scrap I had on the shelf, I think from retail display shelving.

The holes are nicely spaced, though I had to run the drill press through them as one side's holes are offset from the other just a smidge. At least the one side was a reliable template, and anything is better than drilling that many holes!

You can kinda see how one side has round holes and the other is this weird D-shape.

Now the sliders are mostly done (why'd I forget one? ) and you can see feet tacked in the back. These bolt into the factory seatbelt holes, and are another point for the cage to attach to the body. The two bolts at the front bolt into the holes for the factory console. It's not at all a structural mount, but it may keep the sheetmetal from vibrating some, and it's a handy reference point for me to measure from.

This is the end result, after what seemed like fifty test fittings. Do a tack weld, hustle it out to the truck, hammer it a bit, hustle it back into the garage, lather, rinse, repeat...

Now the seat brackets bolt up to this framework:

I actually tested this in the truck, and there's plenty of room to slide, so I can fit anything from seven-foot NBA players to four-foot Herve Villechaize. (Well, except he's dead.)

Here's one of the seats mounted, and you can see why the seat brackets have that crazy angle:

And finally, the seats are quite strongly attached to my work bench. It's cold and raining outside, and I'm worn out, so that's enough for one day.

-- A

 

[dremu]

A quickie teaser, however, for the next phase. I was perusing the Ruffstuff website (You Might Be A CK5'er If ... you randomly read websites of places that sell fab parts, just to see what's available!) and they have these clever gizmos. (Given my simple drink needs, the lemonade was the only size reference around )

Equally useful for attached limiting straps to the frame or axle, or in my case, as handy weldable pivots for harnesses and belts. They're actually stupidly thick for the purpose, but again, a little overkill now and again is a healthy thing.

I've had both regular belts and full-on racing harnesses in the truck over the years; this time around I'm gonna use some ricer "harnesses" that still have a seatbelt-style clip at the center. I found the real harness latch to be a PITA for me, never mind passengers.

More to come, possibly to include photographic proof that the truck does actually leave the property!

-- A

 

[AJMBLAZER]

More to come, possibly to include photographic proof that the truck does actually leave the property!

-- A

This will rank up there with Nessie and Big Foot.

 

[76zimmer]

I've had a chance to drive her now on the Bilsteins, and I'm pleased. I think once I get the alignment dialed in she'll be comfortably streetable. (I also re-shuffled leaves in the rear packs, and though one side is maybe 1/2"-3/4" taller than the other, I think it's smoother now. At some point I'll prolly swap the two packs left-to-right, should equal out some. The truck is old enough that it's a bit tweaked anyway.)

After diddling with the front driveshaft, I can offer the following general observation: dropping a tranny crossmember on your head hurts like a sumb!tch and is not recommended (Things Not To Do #405.) Didn't require stitches or nuthin', but will likely leave a scar.

I also built a U-joint steering shaft a la the XJ shaft favored by you guys with later steering columns. Early steering columns like mine have a splined end instead of the D- or double-D shaped thing the new ones have, so I welded up a stock shaft and a U-joint off some a Jeep shaft I got at the PnP, replacing the rag joint.

Notably, I had a spare shaft and rag joint, so I figured I was just out the time to build the thing and could swap back if it didn't work. Which is good, as unfortunately I didn't align it right -- I *swear* I double-checked -- so the steering wheel was waay off when installed. (Both ends are keyed, as far as I can tell, so I couldn't adjust for this.)

I also seem to recall replacing the rag joint in the last decade or so, so the U-joint one didn't feel much if any better than my stocker. I think you guys with the XJ shafts are comparing a new U-joint shaft to a worn-out rag joint, which isn't fair to rag joints =))

Someday when I've got nothing better to do with $250 I'll spring for one of the Borgeson bling shafts and be done with it.

Top, the stock style shaft, bottom, my Frankenstein:

I ended up doing a similar "assembly"

 

[dremu]

I ended up doing a similar "assembly"

Do you find it to be all that and a bag of chips, as compared to a good condition stock arrangement?

-- A

 

[76zimmer]

I never did drive this K5 before what it is now, so no direct comparison, but I think its pretty solid with the tires aired up. Also my CC actually drives really good with the rag in it (PS)

 

[Ktm15]

what a cool rig man! im on pg 7 and diggin it! it looks like i saw the tops of the front springs have the threading for the sway bar.does everyone take it off?excuse the noob question!trying to learn!i just lifted mine 4"&left it on?should it come off?

 

[Ktm15]

read it all! man! you and the blazer have come so far! your really gettin stuff done man! good job!

 

[dremu]

what a cool rig man! im on pg 7 and diggin it! it looks like i saw the tops of the front springs have the threading for the sway bar.does everyone take it off?excuse the noob question!trying to learn!i just lifted mine 4"&left it on?should it come off?

Yes, the factory U-bolt plates were used for the sway bar. Lots of people run without a sway bar, especially since lift springs tend to be much stiffer than stock.

In my case, the 52" springs when used in front relocate the axle forward from its original position, so I couldn't use the sway bar. The springs are fairly soft, however, so it's a trade-off between street driving and off-road flex.

-- A

 

[dremu]

Had a friend come by and help me pull the cage out -- it's SOO much easier with two bodies. That and moving it solo is a comedy of errors as my driveway is on a slight incline, so even when it's on furniture dollies ... pure hilarity ensues, sometimes including the cage, on dollies, in the street

Anyway, there's lots of stuff to be done to the cage. I made a section of the driver's side front leg removable, to facilitate access to the instrument cluster. There are these clever weld-in bolt-up bung gizmos for this very purpose:

Unfortunately I discovered the place I ordered them from has ... issues delivering in a timely fashion, let's say, and has a reputation for lousy customer dealings. Great product, if/when they get it to you. Suffice it to say that if I'd needed the things quickly I'd have gone "ballistic" with anger This was just before the lengthy thread about their dealings, sigh. (To my credit, I had some difficulty finding someone who carried the size I needed, and they allegedly had them. Allegedly.)

One challenge was to find straight sections to cut and weld these into, as the legs have some gnarly bends, so the removable section is actually longer than it needs to be.

Once installed, however, they are nearly seamless, except for the bolt holes, and bloody stout, as they're machined from solid stock. I had some initial fears about strength, but short of a precise hit on exactly the shear plane of the bolts (and nothing else), other parts of the truck and cage will crumble before these go.

And I didn't get good pix, but I drilled ~1/2" holes through the tube around the end of the insert to plug weld these things in. This was of course in addition to welding around the circumference of the join, which had a pretty good gap, enough get a nice sized bead in there. The surface isn't perfect even after repeated application of the flapdisc, but I'll do a bit of sanding with some emery cloth, and then Rustoleum hides many cosmetic sins

I took the cage out to do a bunch of little welding as well as the seat mounts; I couldn't get to the underside, for instance, and once it's out, you may as well do any other welding, since all you gotta do is roll the thing this way and roll the thing that. This must be why they're called roll cages I am getting my workout, I tell ya...

Something I shoulda done a LONG time ago... handles for entry and egress, aka "Jeebus bars" in the corners. I don't think they'll actually act as gussets 'cuz they're bent, but they sure do come in hand to come and go (especially for us old farts )

 

[colbystephens]

Would you let me know where those gizmos are from? Those are cool!!

 

[dremu]

The harnesses came in, and I've been fiddling about with the bolt points for them. They came with 11mm bolts (all the numbers go to 11!) with bushings for about a 9/16" hole. A normal person would either just drop a 1/2" bolt in there and crank it down, or at most, drill out the the 1/2" hole in the weld-on tabs to the 9/16, use a 9/16" bolt, and be done with it.

I wanted to retain the ability for the tab to rotate, so I'm gonna end up spending the entire evening farting about to make my own bushings. This is the textbook definition of a project: An activity which takes 150% of the time allotted, even when you take that factor into account! (Say it'll take an hour, this means it'll take an hour and a half. Only you know this, so really it's more like two hours ... or three... )

Cutting brass tube neatly is surprisingly hard; ended up just using a baby hacksaw with a veeery fine blade, but it's still hard to get short lengths. These are then sleeved together to get a 1/2" ID 9/16" OD bushing. These in turn are fit into a fender washer, and soldered together:

And I'll do this eight times -- lather, rinse, repeat. That and a ton of filing to get the brass to the right length. It's a bit silly, but it'll keep the harnesses from rattling and they'll fit better ... and I get to spend an evening soldering and filing and such with hand tools, and this is a hobby after all, for my enjoyment. That's the idea, right?

Anyway, the harness tab then fits fairly tidily into the outer tab, which will be welded to the cage.

When installed, I'll weld a nut to the bottom of the outer tab so I won't have to get a wrench into tight spaces.

More to come, including the harness mounts actually getting welded to something, and a removable crossmember behind the seats.

-- A