Cordless, 4" angle grinder
CK5
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'89 R3500 Crew Cab 2wd to 4wd conversion & beyond
- Thread starter mrk5
- Start date
Started out with 2wd TBI350 with SM465 to current 4wd with 454, 700r4, NP241
I also should have used a drill in the corners first but I forgot.
I will have to remember that when I cut the hood sheet metal on my extra hood.
Yeah, a person could do better than me. If a fella put a piece of sheet metal between the hood brace and the skin, it would be a lot easier to avoid cutting through the brace at all.
So I have some issues to sort out after this past camping trip.
Foremost is engine cooling. As soon as we put a load on the motor it starts to heat up. Last year with the 454/700/241 setup I didn't have any trouble on the trail, even in Moab with 100+ temps. This weekend on the trail any climb would heat the truck up. It was also doing this pulling the camper on the highway on the steep climbs, but I can forgive that a little more. I'd let it get up to 220F, then we would stop and cool off. I do think the hood louvers helped it cool off faster. It didn't really take long to get the temps to drop to 190F before I would continue on.
The trans did great on temps. Even with the motor hitting about 223F at the highest I saw, the trans never got over 200F.
Aside form the trans/Magnum/tcase swap, the only thing I changed was to plumb in the trans cooler in the radiator. With the 700r4, I never used the radiator cooler.
I think I have an idea what some of the trail overheating issue might be. I have the Windstar fans mounted in their factory shroud that measures 17"x28". The radiator core is 19"x34" so I have a lot of "unshrouded" radiator. I did this with the intent to aid in highway cooling to keep the natural air flow through the radiator open. I figured the Windstar fans work so well for so many they could pull enough air thru their section of the radiator. So I could help on the trail by fully shrouding the radiator.
This doesn't help on the highway though. I can hold 40mph on the steep hills which should be enough speed that the air flow from ground speed is greater than the fans.
I'm wondering if an oil cooler might help? I feel like it would need to be located somewhere other than in front of the radiator as I think that would probably decrease the air flow to the radiator and offset the gains from cooler oil. I didn't feel like adding an oil cooler to the old TBI350 helped, but it may have been beyond help.
I have also noticed when the engine temp starts topping 200F I can smell hot engine oil. I was thinking maybe it was from oil hitting the exhaust as there is the typical old motor rear main leak. It's not excessive, leaves less than a quarter size puddle when parked. Just wondering if this is an indication the oil could use some cooling off.
It's frustrating to have the power I've been wanting but now to be hampered by engine overheating. Curious what some others think.
Foremost is engine cooling. As soon as we put a load on the motor it starts to heat up. Last year with the 454/700/241 setup I didn't have any trouble on the trail, even in Moab with 100+ temps. This weekend on the trail any climb would heat the truck up. It was also doing this pulling the camper on the highway on the steep climbs, but I can forgive that a little more. I'd let it get up to 220F, then we would stop and cool off. I do think the hood louvers helped it cool off faster. It didn't really take long to get the temps to drop to 190F before I would continue on.
The trans did great on temps. Even with the motor hitting about 223F at the highest I saw, the trans never got over 200F.
Aside form the trans/Magnum/tcase swap, the only thing I changed was to plumb in the trans cooler in the radiator. With the 700r4, I never used the radiator cooler.
I think I have an idea what some of the trail overheating issue might be. I have the Windstar fans mounted in their factory shroud that measures 17"x28". The radiator core is 19"x34" so I have a lot of "unshrouded" radiator. I did this with the intent to aid in highway cooling to keep the natural air flow through the radiator open. I figured the Windstar fans work so well for so many they could pull enough air thru their section of the radiator. So I could help on the trail by fully shrouding the radiator.
This doesn't help on the highway though. I can hold 40mph on the steep hills which should be enough speed that the air flow from ground speed is greater than the fans.
I'm wondering if an oil cooler might help? I feel like it would need to be located somewhere other than in front of the radiator as I think that would probably decrease the air flow to the radiator and offset the gains from cooler oil. I didn't feel like adding an oil cooler to the old TBI350 helped, but it may have been beyond help.
I have also noticed when the engine temp starts topping 200F I can smell hot engine oil. I was thinking maybe it was from oil hitting the exhaust as there is the typical old motor rear main leak. It's not excessive, leaves less than a quarter size puddle when parked. Just wondering if this is an indication the oil could use some cooling off.
It's frustrating to have the power I've been wanting but now to be hampered by engine overheating. Curious what some others think.
The 4l80 is more trans with different gearing than the 700r. That will create a higher load under every condition. You also have your trans controller and lockup settings which are going to change engine loads
The injection setup is new isn't it? There are so many variables involved there that can cause increased or decreased temps its not funny. Different trims at different loads and its ability to accurately adjust the afr at those levels etc. Timing variables. Then there is simple stuff like fan turn on temps, or speed control if you have it.
Not sure the previous setup of fans though. If you previously had a mechanical fan and switched to the windstar fans that's a big difference. Electric fans are very much so inferior to mechanical clutch fans in cfm movement. I would shroud as much of the core as you can.
The bottom line is if the motor is running good and setup right, and the trans is running good and setup right, then you just have to bite the bullet and fix the cooling. More fan shrouding, higher cfm fans, Oil cooler (as you mentioned) can reduce temps alot as well.
Edited to ask, does the leak appear to get worse when you're on the motor. Trying to get at pcv issues possibly. too much positive pressure can cause issues other than just more oil leaks.
The injection setup is new isn't it? There are so many variables involved there that can cause increased or decreased temps its not funny. Different trims at different loads and its ability to accurately adjust the afr at those levels etc. Timing variables. Then there is simple stuff like fan turn on temps, or speed control if you have it.
Not sure the previous setup of fans though. If you previously had a mechanical fan and switched to the windstar fans that's a big difference. Electric fans are very much so inferior to mechanical clutch fans in cfm movement. I would shroud as much of the core as you can.
The bottom line is if the motor is running good and setup right, and the trans is running good and setup right, then you just have to bite the bullet and fix the cooling. More fan shrouding, higher cfm fans, Oil cooler (as you mentioned) can reduce temps alot as well.
Edited to ask, does the leak appear to get worse when you're on the motor. Trying to get at pcv issues possibly. too much positive pressure can cause issues other than just more oil leaks.
Hmmmm...this sounds very familiar to the issues @the_blaze is having with his big block and newly added fuel injection. Although you are both running different setups.
It is a new EFI system that I've run for over a year now. The first year of operation I didn't have trouble with the cooling once I installed the big block radiator and fans I have now. The problems only started with the "new" trans. I haven't tinkered with any of the AFR settings, just let it do it's self tuning. I think at anything above about 10% TPS, the target AFR is 14.1; at idle target AFR is 13.5 FWIW. I also have timing control and I was wondering if maybe the timing curve needs to be adjust for when I'm towing. I have no idea what kind of timing you would want for hauling tho.
I've had electric fans from the start with this truck. I have a 180F thermostat. The big fan comes on at 180 and off at 170 so once it's on, it generally stays on (unless it's a really cool day). The smaller fan comes on at 185 and off and 175. I have it rigged with a manual switch so it stays on all the time which I usually do on trails.
I do think it must leak more when on the motor hard since that's only time I smell the hot oil. I have also wondered about the PVC system. I installed a new PVC valve about a month ago to see if that helps. Also included a new air breather; an open element K&N thinking that would allow more ventilation. Maybe that's where the smell comes from since it's open to the engine bay and not piped back to the air cleaner like some I've seen.
When we were pulling on flat land I noticed I could set the engine temp based on how fast I was going. For example 55mph is 188F, 60mph is 190F, and 70mph is 195F. Those aren't the actual numbers but similar to what I rememeber seeing. But those temps would hold as long as I stayed at the respective speed.
I've had electric fans from the start with this truck. I have a 180F thermostat. The big fan comes on at 180 and off at 170 so once it's on, it generally stays on (unless it's a really cool day). The smaller fan comes on at 185 and off and 175. I have it rigged with a manual switch so it stays on all the time which I usually do on trails.
I do think it must leak more when on the motor hard since that's only time I smell the hot oil. I have also wondered about the PVC system. I installed a new PVC valve about a month ago to see if that helps. Also included a new air breather; an open element K&N thinking that would allow more ventilation. Maybe that's where the smell comes from since it's open to the engine bay and not piped back to the air cleaner like some I've seen.
When we were pulling on flat land I noticed I could set the engine temp based on how fast I was going. For example 55mph is 188F, 60mph is 190F, and 70mph is 195F. Those aren't the actual numbers but similar to what I rememeber seeing. But those temps would hold as long as I stayed at the respective speed.
Even though this is an older engine that usually runs cooler thermostat and cooler overall engine temps shouldn't you run a 195 thermostat and have the fan kick on at say 200 to keep the fuel injection stuff happy or is that only with the oem stuff due to wanting to run hotter for better emissions and fuel economy? I am just curious. I had a Jeep grand Cherokee once that I put a lower tstat in to get it to run cooler and it didn't like it because it dropped it too cold for the computer stuff.
40
I’m always thinking about airflow through the cooler stack, making sure whatever enters from the core support opening makes it through the back of the fan. Are there any gaps you could seal between the radiator and core support where cool air might be escaping around the radiator?
As well, I’ve noticed my 4L80E is quicker to heat than my old 700R4, but it’s more stable between 180-220, so your experience isn’t too different from my own.
Last note - I’m always in favor of more cooling capacity, including an oil cooler.
David
As well, I’ve noticed my 4L80E is quicker to heat than my old 700R4, but it’s more stable between 180-220, so your experience isn’t too different from my own.
Last note - I’m always in favor of more cooling capacity, including an oil cooler.
David
Also just another thing to think about which I bet you've already done, check the gauge accuracy. Does the gauge match your ECM?
The heat exchanger for the tranny in the rad is awesome if you can utilize it. There's always the possibility it was the straw that broke the camels back but I doubt it. A 7.4 and 80e is a factory combination so you should have lots of breathing room if its built similar to factory.
BTW you should have a richened mixture under certain higher TPS conditions and loads. This will have an effect. I would bet the Sniper does it but check to see if power enrichment is enabled.
Same with timing tables. That will definitely add different heat conditions. Is it retarding timing at all due to knock etc..?
Having a positive pressure zone in front of the rad like @AgDieseler said will definitely help, but not on the trail.
The heat exchanger for the tranny in the rad is awesome if you can utilize it. There's always the possibility it was the straw that broke the camels back but I doubt it. A 7.4 and 80e is a factory combination so you should have lots of breathing room if its built similar to factory.
BTW you should have a richened mixture under certain higher TPS conditions and loads. This will have an effect. I would bet the Sniper does it but check to see if power enrichment is enabled.
Same with timing tables. That will definitely add different heat conditions. Is it retarding timing at all due to knock etc..?
Having a positive pressure zone in front of the rad like @AgDieseler said will definitely help, but not on the trail.
What radiator/size radiator are you running now? I swapped in a 6.2 radiator and shroud from a square body truck into my CCLB, and only have a mechanical fan on the 8.1 (no e-fans at all), and last weekend when we went camping, it was a long 2-lane mountain road that was probably a 4% grade for about 15 miles (with the camper in the back with all our crap in it...so maybe not quite as heavy as you towing your trailer, but not that far off either) and my temps never got above ~185* the whole time
he's running the 6.2 radiator
I agree with the thought that you are not maximizing airflow through the radiator.
I know my setup is an apples to oranges comparison, but follow me here. Using a 6.2 radiator, stock shroud for that radiator and a stock 5.3 fan and clutch I'm over cooling. I believe it comes down to every ounce of air comes through that radiator goes out the back of the shroud.
Gm sealed all the fan shouds up that way for a reason. Leaving gaps to allow for air forced at road speed is leaving some of the cooling capacity off the table. It hurts even more when the speed drops due to load or trail and the only airflow through the radiator is what the two fans are pulling.
I'd redo the shroud and fan mounting to match the full size of the radiator before messing with tuning. It's an airflow issue for sure.
I know my setup is an apples to oranges comparison, but follow me here. Using a 6.2 radiator, stock shroud for that radiator and a stock 5.3 fan and clutch I'm over cooling. I believe it comes down to every ounce of air comes through that radiator goes out the back of the shroud.
Gm sealed all the fan shouds up that way for a reason. Leaving gaps to allow for air forced at road speed is leaving some of the cooling capacity off the table. It hurts even more when the speed drops due to load or trail and the only airflow through the radiator is what the two fans are pulling.
I'd redo the shroud and fan mounting to match the full size of the radiator before messing with tuning. It's an airflow issue for sure.
I agree with this
I have the CTS reading on the Holley and the Autometer gauge. The senders for both are located at the front of the intake before the thermostat. Technically the Autometer was giving me a higher reading once the motor got over 200F. So when I'm saying I would stop at 220F to cool off that was what the EFI told me and the Autometer was usually reading closer to 230F.
The Sniper EFI does not monitor knock. I did look and it was holding 40 degrees advanced during this time. I have not delved in to the tuning possibilities yet. I just downloaded the software and stopped there.
So right now it just runs on the base tuning as well as the learned tuning the onboard software does for the first however many miles of driving.I was curious what you were running for a fan on the 8.1L. I don't know if you remember the climb up 285 from 470, but it's pretty tough. Too bad you don't still live here so we could do a direct comparison. Obviously I was being passed by newer trucks pulling bigger campers as I sat on the side of the road cooling off, so it's not an issue for the newer trucks. The camper weighs about 4000lbs, so I try to remind myself between truck and camper and family and gear I'm probably hauling nearly 13,000lbs. Maybe I'm expecting too much from a factory 80's truck 454. I also had to pull Nick's truck up Kenosha Pass and it was heating up pretty quick doing that but it's a relatively short climb.
I think that will be the next step. I'm deciding between 2 options. Factory 6.2L mechanical fan (uses same fan clutch as 454) and shroud. I found I can get a 6.2L shroud from Classic Industries. My only concern is trail cooling. I was just reading @the_blaze thread and he's having idle cooling issues with the same mechanical fan and shroud.
The other option is 2 bigger electric fans on a shroud that covers the entire 19"x34" core. I have (2) 16" 2-speed Volvo fans I could try that with. Or I could go bigger and get (2) Derale 2-speed 17" diameter fans and max out the coverage. I'm kinda leaning this direction because I know it will still work on the trail.
