91 Burb Battery Cables/Fuseable links

[dhcomp]

Ok, so i'm having intermittent battery problems on the burb.

Everything powered off the stock battery feed will stop working for a few min (door locks, ign, starter, etc), and then start back up no problem.

I first noticed it when the alarm would arm (alarm is on a separate feed straight from the battery) , and the doors wouldn't' lock. Then i'd try to start the truck with the key, and the ign would be totally dead.

Issue seems to resolve itself quickly...and i've never had issue when the truck is running, but i'm getting nervous.

How does the stock battery wiring run on this truck? The wiring diagram doesn't seem to show me what i want. It shows a fuseable link to the alt, but how does power get to the rest of the truck? On my 94, there was a dis block at the firewall passenger side, but there isn't on this truck.


Where are the battery fuseable links on this truck? I'm afraid one is going out.

I hate the universal battery cables from kragen, and don't want stock style sidepost from rockauto or the dealer. If i was to replace them, where do you guys buy cables and terminal connections? If you make your own replacement cables, how do you integrate fuseable links?

Thanks guys!

 

[lectric80]

The fusible links should be at the starter's battery post. My 80 has two, one for the the main truck harness the other runs directly to the A/C system. I can't remember the colors offhand. Unless you are moving the wires, I don't see this being a fusible link. Fusible links will typically just fail completely and leave you with no power.

I will be dead honest and say that this sounds much more like a bad ground, since the alarm is wired directly to battery +. If the ground cable is corroded (remember they rot from the inside out), it could potentially cause an intermittent ground which would give all the symptoms you have described. This is the first thing I would check, and the quick way to check would be when you have the issue, connect a jumper cable between the battery negative post and the block. To be honest with all the symptoms you have described, I personally would just replace this cable immediately without even testing it, but that's just me.

As to cables, I haven't had a need to build my own yet, the basic cables from Napa work well. As to fusible links, as I said they aren't part of the cables themselves on these vehicles, so it isn't a real concern. I do plan to use top post cables instead of the side post, but I haven't gotten there yet.

 

[dhcomp]

Thanks for the thoughts. This issue did come about after i added the dual battery setup, but i think that is just a coincidence. In "off" mode, the system works as stock, and has the same symptoms.

I can check my grounds, but i DO have multiple aux grounds to frame/body, etc to make sure everything is grounded the same. But now that i think about it, i have a feeling that the stock ground cable to the battery is the only think attached to the battery, the aux grounds are body to frame, and frame to engine. If its the ground cable that i am going to replace, might as well switch to top posts......i HATE my side posts, and have had side post cables leave me stranded twice before. Thanks for jarring something loose in my head, i'll go check it out in the next couple days. Don't think my family wants me working on my truck on christmas.....so probably the 26th.

Merry christmas eve!

 

[lectric80]

Yep, the ground to the engine from the battery is the one I am thinking is bad. The only thing your alarm shares with the rest of the vehicles electrical system is the ground, positive comes direct from the battery, so only a break in ground could create this issue.

 

[dhcomp]

Yep, the ground to the engine from the battery is the one I am thinking is bad. The only thing your alarm shares with the rest of the vehicles electrical system is the ground, positive comes direct from the battery, so only a break in ground could create this issue.

Now that i think about that though, the alarm (on its own positive feed) works fine when the rest of the electrical acts up......
Nice thing about a ground is i can hook a redundant motor ground from the top post to the engine ground stud, and see if that fixes the problem.

 

[lectric80]

Most alarms have a backup battery in case power is lost or cut by a thief. So it could stay on, and the momentary loss of a ground causes it to arm. Again, just my thoughts, but the secondary ground would be a very good idea to test it out.

 

[dhcomp]

Ok, so the truck shut down on me on the freeway .

Flipped the dual battery setup to emergency jump, flipped it back, started truck back up again.

Started replacing battery cables. Does that little metal thing on the starter cable matter? Or can a regular battery terminal lug thing work on the starter end?

Any reason the truck IGN circuit is wired from the starter? Would it be a bad idea to create a junction block on the firewall like a 92+ truck, and run the rest of the ign/battery circuits from there instead of the starter?

Wish I had planned this diagnostic better.....i cut the end off the factory cable to check for corrosion. Now i'm sorta stuck putting it back together with what i can find easily. I currently have a side post starting battery, but purchased longer side post cables, so when i switch to a top post, i can cut the ends off and solder/crimp new cable ends on.

 

[Fordum]

You are almost certainly past this by now, but something you said rang a bell.
Back when I was mounting electric winches on all my friends' trucks, I encountered my first side mount battery.
In order to add the winch cable, I went with a longer bolt and nut. Screwed the bolt into the battery until it bottomed out, and then tightened down the nut.
About a week or so later, started having intermittent battery problems.
After doing lots of voltage drop tests, I finally found the cables were not making good connection to the battery.
When I took the connection apart, I discovered I had tightened the bolt about one half turn too many and pushed it through the back of the post. The resulting corrosion was doing wierd things to the system.
The reason I thought of that, was because you mentioned adding a dual battery system, and I was wondering how you hooked up the two batteries.

J.

 

[dhcomp]

You are almost certainly past this by now, but something you said rang a bell.
Back when I was mounting electric winches on all my friends' trucks, I encountered my first side mount battery.
In order to add the winch cable, I went with a longer bolt and nut. Screwed the bolt into the battery until it bottomed out, and then tightened down the nut.
About a week or so later, started having intermittent battery problems.
After doing lots of voltage drop tests, I finally found the cables were not making good connection to the battery.
When I took the connection apart, I discovered I had tightened the bolt about one half turn too many and pushed it through the back of the post. The resulting corrosion was doing wierd things to the system.
The reason I thought of that, was because you mentioned adding a dual battery system, and I was wondering how you hooked up the two batteries.

J.

Spent some time troubleshooting today, and decided my side post battery won't hold a proper load. 2 Identical batteries, purchased 1 month apart. 1 side post, 1 top. Top post drops to 10ish volts during starting, side post drops to 8-9v during starting, and truck makes wierd clicking noises, etc, but finally fires. Im going to go warranty teh side post battery, and try to get them to give me a top post. But then i have to get rid of teh side post connectors on my BRAND new side post cables. And dont' really own a good way to crimp cables that big.

 

[xpndbl3]

Find a local buddy to crimp them for you, or ask a mom and pop shop if one of the mechanics could just crimp them for you for coffee or lunch money.

 

[dhcomp]

Drove around to teh few shops by my house, found one guy that would crimp it, but he wasn't very nice....so not worth the hassle.

Ended up getting a my battery warrantied for a Combo top/side post battery! I love those ones! Kragen didn't use to have them. Anyways, used the side post connections for main truck power, top for aux stuff. In the process of checking my starter cable too many times, i broke the cap on my solenoid from overtorquing the lug. Kragen didn't have the repair kit in stock, so i installed a new solenoid. Guess now i know how a solenoid works.

Anyways, truck starts ok now. Wierd thing is that the voltage gauge reads higher when i start it from the remote start, which is powered by an aux 10ga power wire to the battery. Voltage drops slightly when the trucks starts running on its own wiring. Guess thats just wire age, not too concerned about it right now.

 

[xpndbl3]

that's horrible, you could ship them to me and buy me a pizza and i'd crimp up some for you if you wanted

 

[dhcomp]

I hate it when its not the cost of the tool that is the problem, just its availability. I really need to just order the damn tool, and recrimp mine to top post with quality terminals.

That, and learn to solder properly so i can solder/crimp them.

 

[dhcomp]

\
Anyways, truck starts ok now. Wierd thing is that the voltage gauge reads higher when i start it from the remote start, which is powered by an aux 10ga power wire to the battery. Voltage drops slightly when the trucks starts running on its own wiring.

And i'm a moron. When the truck switches from remote start to truck ign power, the stereo and some other accessories click on...hence the voltage drop

 

[ryoken]

haven't read the whole thread but.....

answered in your crimper thread....

no, you dont need your other power circuits coming off the starter.. just be aware right off the starter there is a fusable link... if you move everything else off the starter, you'll need to make sure they are circuit protected..


this is how my starter is wired....

 

[dhcomp]

haven't read the whole thread but.....

answered in your crimper thread....

no, you dont need your other power circuits coming off the starter.. just be aware right off the starter there is a fusable link... if you move everything else off the starter, you'll need to make sure they are circuit protected..


this is how my starter is wired....

I understand that they need to be circuit protected. Explain that pic to me. It looks like the battery cable is jumper ed over to the start terminal? Is it just a wierd camera angle, and the start wire runs up the back of the battery cable?

 

[ryoken]

thats it.. one wire to the starter... thats just a 10g jumper over to the S terminal... the joy of a remote solenoid...

 

[dhcomp]

thats it.. one wire to the starter... thats just a 10g jumper over to the S terminal... the joy of a remote solenoid...

Oh, i get it. Never saw one hooked up

 

[dhcomp]

Ok, truck is dead.

Primary positive and negative cables just replaced, new starter solenoid.

And on top of that, i am wrenching/troubleshooting with one arm, cause i broke a finger on my dominant hand during a flag football game, how lame is that.

Truck starts with remote start, as alarm has its own positive feed, which in turn feeds ign/start circuits. Also seems to backfeed everything else when car is started remotely and ign switch is turned on (door locks, windows, etc). Which also tells me my ign switch is good. When not remote started, ign key does nothing, and the door lock don't even work.

So i start troubleshooting. Start at starter pos post. Good voltage. Check voltage across 12v feed from starter main post through fuseible link, checks out ok (despite probably 1" of bare 12v wire by fusible link, only covered by corrugated plastic sheathing ). From there, 12v feed (to fusebox and ign?) goes up little metal tube that goes vertical by exhaust manifolds. Where does it go from there? Fuse box? I had a hard time tracing it with limited time. So i had to drive the Tahoe i'm trying to sell to go pickup a boat .

What else could go bad between there and the fusebox? The harness looks pretty unmolested through the engine compartment, to the bulkhead connector. Do those connectors go bad? How does that actually attach to the fusebox? I keep thinking some ign relay type thing is bad, but NO power in body harness makes me think a main feed to the fusebox is bad.

I get VERY angry when this truck isn't reliable after all the time i spend working on it.

Any suggestions are great. Thanks for the help guys!

 

[Fordum]

OK, this is not going to be much help. I'm running on too little sleep again, and I am not all that familiar with your model truck.

But, one thing stands out for me, and maybe if I show it to you, you can take it from there.
You said that the remote starter has its own positive feed. Obviously from the battery, but where does it tap off from? And what does it feed when it cranks the truck?

It would seem that your trouble is between those two points.

Actually, it sounds like your alarm might be causing the problem. Most of those will kill the ignition and quite often the starter when tripped. I am thinking that whatever kills those, probably a relay or two, is not working right.

There is a point I am trying to make, and I sure hope you see it, because I lost it somewhere.

I'm going to bed, hope you get it going. After a couple of hours, I will look at it again and see if I can post something more coherent.

J.