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Air intake options

Interesting results with the cowl induction.

I checked what I was seeing for IATs with my intake air coming through one of the factory core support knockouts, and it was 115*. I unfortunately didn't note the ambient air temps, but almost certainly no more than 85*. Which further indicates to me there is little to no effective airflow seeking a path into the engine at the core support.

To be fair, some of that could be heat soak of the intake, since my IAT is there, vs in the inlet tubing like a lot of modern stuff seems to be.
 
I'm thinking about something like this, lots of options for shape, size, it would do great job of filtering and back to tube so air could be pulled outside of the engine bay.

Screenshot_20210425-063520_Chrome.jpg
 
Spectre in-line filter, through blower motor hole, grabbing fresh air from cowl. No rain issues. Constant ~5* difference between outside air temp and what the intake sensor was reading. With the filter open, in traffic I would see 155+ IAT. With this it wasn’t higher that ~5*. No interior cab noise either, since it was all closed up.
(Powder coated black after this picture)

View attachment 376108
This is what I’m planning on doing. The cowl is a good pressure area and it’s how the setup on my old diesel was and there was a noticeable difference. You wouldn’t happen to know the model number on that filter would you? Or is the filter inside the cowl?
 
I have the biggerv bone that is 6" and want the bullet style 5 inch, i think it will seal better .
the 6 inch leaks when in deep water.....(insert drowning emoji here)
 
I think you guys are pretty impressive with this thread. But hasn't all this research been done several times over by the engineers at every major automotive company anywhere in the world? Using more accurate equipment and methodologies than are available to you? We know, for a fact, that getting cooler air into the cylinder will provide more o2 to the combustion, creating a more forceful fuel burn. We know for a fact, that altitude works in the reverse way: there is less pressure at altitude, resulting in less O2 present in the volume of each cylinder full of air. Supercharging and Turbocharging are the only ways to gain a significant "ram-air" charge, which works because the air cannot escape and is being forced into the cylinder under pressure.

I think enough research has been done to prove Fordum's point of turbulence playing a huge part in this, also. Which is one of two reasons why the "ram-air" idea doesn't produce the same numbers as does a supercharger. The turbulence of the air entering that tube in the front support is high, and depending on the configuration of the grill, there may actually be a pocket of lower pressure there. Push that air through a restrictive filter and through a corrugated, hot plastic pipe around a couple of 90* bends before dumping it into the throttle body and I think that air is about as turbulent as it comes. If I'm not mistaken, one of the claimed improvements of the Vortec motor was the airflow into the engine was somehow smoothed by the intake, which increased the pressure on each piston resulting in increased performance. Throttle body spacers and other devices to smooth air flow as it enters the throttle body/ intake manifold are a big chunk of the aftermarket industry.

It would seem what you're trying to do is verify whether or not changes the owner can make will bring about any significant change in HP or TQ numbers in real world applications. And I think you're going to find the difference to be barely measurable. Like trying to split a hair with an axe. That being said, I am reading and learning with every post, so please continue! (And remember, I set up the intake on my 5.7 just like you guys are talking about, so I obviously think your thinking is valid)I just think there are so many variables involved in this that the numbers aren't going to be as significant as you guys think. Here is why:

I once took a truck down and dyno'd it. It did much more poorly than I thought it would. We couldn't figure out why, until we got back home and realized the little door in the intake horn was rusted shut, allowing almost no air to enter the air cleaner assembly. Only what could get in around the cracks and the filter lid...and that would be hot, engine compartment air, so you would think the numbers would be way higher with that obstacle removed. Removed that little door completely and reran the dyno. It had gone from 111 hp and 185 ft. lbs. at 4050 rpm to 128 hp and 197 ft. lbs. at 3898 rpm. So my prediction is that the engine is getting all the air it needs without all the fancy piping. Will it help, yes. Will you feel it, probably not.
What's impressive to me is the reasoning, the scientific thinking, and the ability to formulate and test a hypothesis that I'm seeing. It's something that has largely been lost to video games and facebook. Maybe I'm officially old, but I don't think many college graduates these days could even understand what this thread is about! :popcorn:
 
I think you guys are pretty impressive with this thread. But hasn't all this research been done several times over by the engineers at every major automotive company anywhere in the world? Using more accurate equipment and methodologies than are available to you? We know, for a fact, that getting cooler air into the cylinder will provide more o2 to the combustion, creating a more forceful fuel burn. We know for a fact, that altitude works in the reverse way: there is less pressure at altitude, resulting in less O2 present in the volume of each cylinder full of air. Supercharging and Turbocharging are the only ways to gain a significant "ram-air" charge, which works because the air cannot escape and is being forced into the cylinder under pressure.

I think enough research has been done to prove Fordum's point of turbulence playing a huge part in this, also. Which is one of two reasons why the "ram-air" idea doesn't produce the same numbers as does a supercharger. The turbulence of the air entering that tube in the front support is high, and depending on the configuration of the grill, there may actually be a pocket of lower pressure there. Push that air through a restrictive filter and through a corrugated, hot plastic pipe around a couple of 90* bends before dumping it into the throttle body and I think that air is about as turbulent as it comes. If I'm not mistaken, one of the claimed improvements of the Vortec motor was the airflow into the engine was somehow smoothed by the intake, which increased the pressure on each piston resulting in increased performance. Throttle body spacers and other devices to smooth air flow as it enters the throttle body/ intake manifold are a big chunk of the aftermarket industry.

It would seem what you're trying to do is verify whether or not changes the owner can make will bring about any significant change in HP or TQ numbers in real world applications. And I think you're going to find the difference to be barely measurable. Like trying to split a hair with an axe. That being said, I am reading and learning with every post, so please continue! (And remember, I set up the intake on my 5.7 just like you guys are talking about, so I obviously think your thinking is valid)I just think there are so many variables involved in this that the numbers aren't going to be as significant as you guys think. Here is why:

I once took a truck down and dyno'd it. It did much more poorly than I thought it would. We couldn't figure out why, until we got back home and realized the little door in the intake horn was rusted shut, allowing almost no air to enter the air cleaner assembly. Only what could get in around the cracks and the filter lid...and that would be hot, engine compartment air, so you would think the numbers would be way higher with that obstacle removed. Removed that little door completely and reran the dyno. It had gone from 111 hp and 185 ft. lbs. at 4050 rpm to 128 hp and 197 ft. lbs. at 3898 rpm. So my prediction is that the engine is getting all the air it needs without all the fancy piping. Will it help, yes. Will you feel it, probably not.
What's impressive to me is the reasoning, the scientific thinking, and the ability to formulate and test a hypothesis that I'm seeing. It's something that has largely been lost to video games and facebook. Maybe I'm officially old, but I don't think many college graduates these days could even understand what this thread is about! :popcorn:
Couple very valid points we should mention

First being the technology to measure this stuff. I have a digital manometer to be able to check the pressure in the system. I’d venture in probably on of few of any running around with one of those. It pales in comparison to what any of the large manufacturers have. But I’m gonna try to use it! Why? Because we’re all nosy. Might be 0 pressure differential :D

Im hoping to have air pressure differential, but knowing for sure I will see some IAT drop. That is going to help, just not sure how much. I have lots of documenting to do!

The accordion style intake piping you mentioned is something to discuss. It’s definitely one of the flaws of the factory piping that I would be 100% willing to get rid of if I had it. That shape definitely slows down the air while creating all of that turbulence

Anyone looking for a different kit will hopefully see that much of the new stuff offer is all smooth piping. It’s my assessment that the factory probably used the accordion stuff for budgetary reasons as much as sound deadening. It’s not uncommon for the aftermarket air kit to make a lot of air movement noise, generally frown upon by Grandma GM buyer

Unfortunately unless there is a massive difference in power (which I doubt. Figured 10 hp is overly optimistic) or a massive change in pressure, it will but very improbable to separate the gains from lower IAT from any benefit that may be provided by “ram air”

Truth is, I’ve looked for the big GM air cleaner for a few years, and they are not easy to find. I wanted two, so I could run two hoses into the filter base. The price added quickly. The ram air kit was $350. Most of the other options were already $200. So it gives a lot of the pre-LS guys things to look and and see what’s different, even if it’s not a supercharger
:thinking:
 
That double stack seems to be all hooked up with vacuum lines and everything....I just want to know how he got the clearance to close his hood! That's smog legal, right? I mean, dryer vent hose is good enough as long as the lint has been cleaned out, right?
 
....I just want to know how he got the clearance to close his hood!

There is a LOT of room between the air cleaner and the bottom of the hood. Hence most cowl induction hoods being silly on these trucks.

Martin
 
OK, I'm on to the 7.4 intake now....Did we get any testing done? This thread died a quiet death, I'm hoping we can revive it and come up with some conclusion as to what size piping is adequate for a average 350 and 454...just for reference. I did realize something else in rereading all this...If the opening for the throttle body is sized at a certain diameter, I wouldn't think the piping would need to be much larger than that, absent the slowing induced by the filter. As far as the turbulent air flow, isn't that what we want for mixing the fuel with the air as it goes in the cylinder?
 
OK, I'm on to the 7.4 intake now....Did we get any testing done? This thread died a quiet death, I'm hoping we can revive it and come up with some conclusion as to what size piping is adequate for a average 350 and 454...just for reference. I did realize something else in rereading all this...If the opening for the throttle body is sized at a certain diameter, I wouldn't think the piping would need to be much larger than that, absent the slowing induced by the filter. As far as the turbulent air flow, isn't that what we want for mixing the fuel with the air as it goes in the cylinder?
Engine masters has an episode on cold air intake piping and filter sizes. Pretty decent info. The salad bowl does work! Haha.
 
You want turbulence where the air and fuel mix. I wrote it that way to cover both carbs and FI. But, for efficient and rapid transfer of air or liquid, laminar is the way to go.
And remember, even though it seems counterintuitive, suddenly going from a larger to a smaller pipe, or a smaller to a larger both will cause turbulence.
That is why you want a taper from one to the other instead of just a sudden change.
 
Haven’t had time to get it installed. Long story

Also fully believe that the tubing in front of the TB needs to significantly exceed the cfm rating of the TB, or it’s not doing any benefit
 
I have a stock tbi filter housing and tube to the core support thingy . My edelbrock pro flo 4 runs just fine . Thats a 1,000 cfm 4barrel tb unit .

Oh wait bent 77 posted that . . He is our efi tester . . Proceed with testing !
 
I cannot speak for TB EFI but my 1980 carbureted has a hole in the radiator support designed for cold air intake, it's not Ram air but there is a baffle opening right behind the grill20211110_211207.jpg
 
Spectre in-line filter, through blower motor hole, grabbing fresh air from cowl. No rain issues. Constant ~5* difference between outside air temp and what the intake sensor was reading. With the filter open, in traffic I would see 155+ IAT. With this it wasn’t higher that ~5*. No interior cab noise either, since it was all closed up.
(Powder coated black after this picture)

View attachment 376108
:thinking: This gives me some ideas for mine. I’ve been wanting to move the air filter from it’s convenient but far from good spot.
 
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