Alcan Spring

[mrk5]

Which is why I came here to ask. I know the people here, we’ll at least your ck5 presence, and trust your opinions on this stuff far more than Julio or Nancy who were pissed about something alcan didnor didn’t do.

With bot review, the negative and positive for that matter reviews are saw were a bit to involved to be bot made from India.

But for someone like me who is relatively new to this 4x4 stuff. When I ordered from ORD I assumed they made them and were not outsourced.

For what it's worth, Alcan is located less than a couple hours drive from ORD; both companies are in western Colorado. These are the stickers we make for ORD that go on the springs:



A lot of the off road companies do things like this. They will come up with the design of the part and then outsource it to a manufacturing facility when demand gets bigger than they can meet. My brother-in-law and my son work for 2 different companies that both do this type of manufacturing. My brother-in-law's company has made stuff for Earth Roamer. The manufacturing facilities are set up to do the step-and-repeat, same thing over and over again processes that would be hard for a small shop to do. I'm just glad they use American companies to make the stuff.

When you get into manufacturing and selling a large quantity of fabricated components it makes more financial sense for the business and the end customer to use a wholesale manufacturer. My business even does this type of thing. There are some items that we just can't be price competitive with making them in house so we use wholesale manufacturers. Typically it's large quantity orders. For example; if you need 2 banners, we make them here, but if you need 100 we have a wholesale manufacturer an hour south of us make them.

There were some signs we were making in house up until a few years ago when all of sudden I couldn't win a bid on. I finally figured out other shops were using wholesale manufacturers and they were able to really drop their prices. Those wholesale manufacturers just do 1 type of sign and that's all they do, all day every day; they have a very streamlined and efficient process we just can't compete with. The end product isn't any different from what we'd build in-house, and it just doesn't make sense to try and compete. In the end, I can provide a quality sign at a lower price for the customer using a wholesale manufacturer and my fabricators get to use their time fabricating the more custom unique signs that are fun to build. It ends up being a win for all of us.

In closing, I've run 2 sets of ORD/Alcan springs and I really like them. Obviously I have some bias, but they are good stuff.

 

[Stephen]

For what it's worth, Alcan is located less than a couple hours drive from ORD; both companies are in western Colorado. These are the stickers we make for ORD that go on the springs:

View attachment 364844

A lot of the off road companies do things like this. They will come up with the design of the part and then outsource it to a manufacturing facility when demand gets bigger than they can meet. My brother-in-law and my son work for 2 different companies that both do this type of manufacturing. My brother-in-law's company has made stuff for Earth Roamer. The manufacturing facilities are set up to do the step-and-repeat, same thing over and over again processes that would be hard for a small shop to do. I'm just glad they use American companies to make the stuff.

When you get into manufacturing and selling a large quantity of fabricated components it makes more financial sense for the business and the end customer to use a wholesale manufacturer. My business even does this type of thing. There are some items that we just can't be price competitive with making them in house so we use wholesale manufacturers. Typically it's large quantity orders. For example; if you need 2 banners, we make them here, but if you need 100 we have a wholesale manufacturer an hour south of us make them.

There were some signs we were making in house up until a few years ago when all of sudden I couldn't win a bid on. I finally figured out other shops were using wholesale manufacturers and they were able to really drop their prices. Those wholesale manufacturers just do 1 type of sign and that's all they do, all day every day; they have a very streamlined and efficient process we just can't compete with. The end product isn't any different from what we'd build in-house, and it just doesn't make sense to try and compete. In the end, I can provide a quality sign at a lower price for the customer using a wholesale manufacturer and my fabricators get to use their time fabricating the more custom unique signs that are fun to build. It ends up being a win for all of us.

In closing, I've run 2 sets of ORD/Alcan springs and I really like them. Obviously I have some bias, but they are good stuff.

Well put. In our case it goes a little farther in that building leaf springs is pretty specialized. It's not rocket science but the actual construction requires a couple of large ovens, quench oil tanks and a bunch of tools, jigs and fixtures that are fairly specific in addition to some people with the skills to actually make the steel behave properly along with a supply chain to buy US made steel (not an easy thing anymore) in quantities high enough to get decent pricing and availability. So it's not surprising that work is contracted out. The fuzzy thing in this case is that they sell a spring system for a GM truck but they are not the same as what we spec and their experience level with the platforms we work with is not as deep. We've never been ashamed to be associated with Alcan to the point that we ship springs directly from them knowing the customer will know the source and reference their name on our product stickers as referenced above. They have a good name for doing quality work and while they don't have anything to do with the design of the our springs, their craftsmanship turns our design work into a solid product. Again the only fuzzy part is that they have their own design ideas and all we can do there is emphasize that they do not sell the same product we do. You can't buy an ORD spring from Alcan and similarly we don't sell Alcan designed GM springs.

 

[Stephen]

Think he was WAY up north or something . I popped in a few times to help but gave up since he didnt wana answer specific questions or post pics .

Yeah, that guy was a grump for sure. In the end we finally figured out that his jumble of a truck that he thought had a K30 frame was really a K20 frame and was set up for 52" springs in the back. He had ordered 56" springs and managed to get them bolted up to the 52" mounting system but they wouldn't compress very far and of course rode super rough. With him being in the way back of the backwoods of Alaska, the simple fix was to move the shackle hanger back 4" on the frame. Which isn't always trivial but doesn't involve shipping springs anywhere. He was grumpy about that too. Never heard much from him after that.

 

[TJ1978]

@Stephen
Makes sense for sure.
I just didn’t know who Alcan was so when I got the ups notification I was confused but assumed because of the weight it may be my leaf springs. So I googled who they were. Then figured the guys here would set me straight on the information I read both positive and negative, as evidenced by this thread.

Thanks again.
Tim

 

[Capt Ron]

Was that the pissy bitch that went after Stephen over there a few years back? He probably needs an Alcan shoved up his tailpipe

Please quit beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel.

 

[Shawn]

My next mod on the K5 is a set of ORD springs. Currently has BDS front springs but those were from A LONG time ago and the TC rear springs was a free set Toby gave me. Its funny to see how many Chevy truck enthusiasts don't know about ORD's awesome springs. Then they bitch about the ride. On the M1008, I was trying to do a budget build and the cheaper TC EZ ride seem to make sense at the time but if I could do it over, I'd go ORD and pay the extra cost.

23 Willys needs new front suspension along with a single leaf spring in the front (solid axle). Will probably ship up the old spring along with the measured weight to Alcan.

 

[Stephen]

23 Willys needs coilovers

FIFY

 

[Shawn]

FIFY

Agree. But my welding skillz and equipment are lacking. How about I just bring up to you with new coilovers and you fixy?

 

[Abusfullofnuns]

Hey @Stephen while we are all in here.....anything that can be done about a truck that leans pretty bad? You helped get me squared away with some NOS ORD springs from a guy on here a couple of years ago. Did a 64" swap in the back and ORD stock length up front of a Suburban.

You helped me figure out the springs were:
48.5" long
10 leaves at .26" thick
1.5" eye width and both ends military wrapped
4" lift

I believe that you said they were a little heavier than you would wanted to start with for the Suburban, but they actually ride great. I have dual batteries on the side that's leaning. Truck has 1" pucks and new body mount rubber. No rust. I have 500-1000 miles or so on the springs and no trail time. I have flexed them a bit to get driveshaft measurements, but nothing more. The lean was apparent after the spring install but has worsened over the last year. I have your zero rates and need to use both, otherwise would just throw one in to address the difference. The lean did not change when doing the rear spring swap.

I understand that good suspension flexes, but I can't go anywhere without a comment from someone about the lean. I have not confirmed the difference on frame to axle for each side but a slight jack on the front left and it levels out. Is there a single leaf that I can order to add/replace one of these to get it back level? Something else I should check to confirm?

Thanks for all the help. Very happy with all the ORD parts on the truck.

 

[6872xtc]

UPS Is hard on things that they ship, I have seen it in person, and heavy stuff only gets lifted as much as absolutely necessary, so scuffs are going to happen.

Alcan dips the springs in paint, but I doubt that they have the time to completely degrease them beforehand due to the volume of product going through there. That little shop ALWAYS has a cart full of springs waiting to go out everytime I walk in there. I like to try and oogle the names when I walk by to see if I recognize any.

From what I hear, the trick for installing high arch ones is to strap a board to the top side to pre flatten them some.

And I have two trucks with ORD front springs, that lean. One truck I swapped the rear springs side to side and the lean followed. I am guessing that the other truck would do the same, but I haven't tried it yet, nor have I bought new rear springs for either one.


Hopefully all of that typing helps somehow.

 

[TerryD]

FWIW I've had Alcans on the back of my Xterra for about 3 years now. I bought them second hand from a rolled Xterra but they have been great.

A couple of the slip pads have broken and the bushings are gonna need replaced soon but they ride great, carry a load awesome (+500lb over stock capacity) and because the X is sprung under, I have 0 axle wrap.

My only complaint is with my vehicle setup. With the high arch for the sprung under, I wish that only 1/2 my lift was in the springs and the rest with a longer shackle to improve down travel vs 100% of my lift in the springs and a super short shackle.

 

[Lizarddog]

I have ORD/Alcans and really like them. Would buy again and recommend to anyone with our trucks. In regard to lead times I checked with Atlas and Deaver and they quoted about the same. I don't fully understand why these shops have such long lead times.

Maybe more of us who are pleased with Alcan should leave reviews

 

[Bent77]

Lead time currently has to do with resource shortages in most industries

 

[TJ1978]

ORD quoted me about a 6 week lead time and that’s pretty close to what it was...

 

[1-ton]

One of the problems I have with off-the-shelf leaf springs is they cannot handle the weight of my crew cab. My crew cab has so much frame, and sheet metal that the weight of it compresses the spring down enough to loose 1 or 2" of lift off lift springs.

 

[obijuank5]

They are like a burrito from freebirds. Its only as good as you tell em to make it.

 

[ktmoutfront]

If you have ever been in a spring manufacturing shop, you would understand why it is a specialty product. Huge machinery that you would picture in an 1920s factory. I was picking springs up for someone on my way to BB one year. Got there at the right time and was talking to the general manager. I asked for a tour, he said sure. Was very cool to see the process.

 

[Stephen]

One of the problems I have with off-the-shelf leaf springs is they cannot handle the weight of my crew cab. My crew cab has so much frame, and sheet metal that the weight of it compresses the spring down enough to loose 1 or 2" of lift off lift springs.

We can do it. Have a Cummins? No problem. Winch and bumper too? No problem.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Springs are easy to make shitty and take hard work and knowledge to do right.

Anybody remember National Spring in San Diego, CA? Used to make great long travel stuff that not just the weekend warrior but full on race trucks ran. Also did coil springs that worked great. Then the kids of the owners took over in the early 2000’s and the company soured. Their product suffered and quality went down. Closed without warning in 2015.

Any company with the equipment can make springs, add leaves, or re-arch your pack so you have zero travel but a foot of lift. A company like Alcan, Deaver, Old Man Emu, etc is different. It costs more and you’re dealing with experts, not amateurs with a press.

 

[Stephen]

UPS Is hard on things that they ship, I have seen it in person, and heavy stuff only gets lifted as much as absolutely necessary, so scuffs are going to happen.
Yup. Fortunately hardened spring steal is super hard to scratch so they just mess up paint. We've tried boxing them but they don't like to stay in boxes.
Alcan dips the springs in paint, but I doubt that they have the time to completely degrease them beforehand due to the volume of product going through there. That little shop ALWAYS has a cart full of springs waiting to go out everytime I walk in there. I like to try and oogle the names when I walk by to see if I recognize any.

From what I hear, the trick for installing high arch ones is to strap a board to the top side to pre flatten them some. This is a really good trick. Similarly, clamping the spring to the axle with the ubolt system often flattens them enough to install.

And I have two trucks with ORD front springs, that lean. One truck I swapped the rear springs side to side and the lean followed. I am guessing that the other truck would do the same, but I haven't tried it yet, nor have I bought new rear springs for either one. When you get to messing with it, I'd be interested in checking the springs out to see what's going on. Very rarely do we have a problem spring. It helps that you're pretty local.


Hopefully all of that typing helps somehow.