Another C to K conversion

[imiceman44]

It's damn cold here, at least what I'm used to this winter. There is almost -16 degrees celsius (3 F) now, and weather forecast says that it might go as low as -27 celsius ( -16 F) within couple of days. And guess how warm my garage is? Pretty much same as outside temp. Won't be doing much there at this week, it would be quite cold to lie under the 'Burban on the concrete floor. And not much hope to get garage warm, 'Burban is so long that doors have to be open and covered with tarp. I have to buy a infrared heater over the worktable, at least then I have warm tools to work with.

Yeah, it didn't get that cold, got down to 15 F here last week and i didn't want to get out to do any work either., It's warmed up now to 35 F.
My garage will fit a crew cab and close but i don't have heat, I do have a small space heater, if I have to work in the cold I could put that next to me

 

[4x4_76]

Finally it's warmer here Now I have all the parts needed to suspend D60. I was going to use track-bar from U1000 Mog, but since they are bit rare as parts trucks, I looked for alternative, and found out that G-Mercedes has even longer track-bar so I got one. I also ordered steering arm from NWF, to make steering good once and for all.

Also found out that D60 has 4.56 gears, I was told that it should have 4.11. Good thing that I looked at it, I was trying to find 4.11 gears to 14FF

I started to fab rear disc brake conversion, using calibers and discs from Chevy Van. Discs need little machining to fit, but I saved lots of money doing it that way.

 

[4x4_76]

How much the 'Burbans front end weights w/o front axle and leafs? Manual diesel w/o AC. Some ballpark numbers are better than nothing

I have to press coils down to measure coil tower height, but how much weight/coil? I probably make towers inch or two higher than is needed, and fab spacers between coil and tower for fine tuning the front end height.

 

[4x4_76]

Got the axle under the truck. Radius arm brackets, lower coil mounts and panhard bracket are tacked in place. Measured axle in correct location and mounted radius arms so I can finaly measure and fab frame end mounts. Then I mounted the panhard to axle bracket, and found a possible problem.

When 'Burban is on level ground, all is good. And both the tierod, and panhard are level, too. But, when the passenger side flexes out, the might be some clearence issues with panhard and tierod. Or, when suspension bottoms out in high speed driving. So now it's a bad thing they are level. There is just not enough separation between them. I can't get panhard any lower because it's gonna hit the diff cover. Nor it can't be moved any more to RH side, NWF steering arm will hit.

Then I looked at the steering gear, and made some measurements. I could probably move it upward about an inch and half and also little bit forward, no more than 1". Then I might get enough clearance for tierod. Naturally I would have to use XJ shaft to keep steering wheel connected to steering gear.

Is that a good idea, or should I try something else?

 

[imiceman44]

Got the axle under the truck. Radius arm brackets, lower coil mounts and panhard bracket are tacked in place. Measured axle in correct location and mounted radius arms so I can finaly measure and fab frame end mounts. Then I mounted the panhard to axle bracket, and found a possible problem.

When 'Burban is on level ground, all is good. And both the tierod, and panhard are level, too. But, when the passenger side flexes out, the might be some clearence issues with panhard and tierod. Or, when suspension bottoms out in high speed driving. So now it's a bad thing they are level. There is just not enough separation between them. I can't get panhard any lower because it's gonna hit the diff cover. Nor it can't be moved any more to RH side, NWF steering arm will hit.

Then I looked at the steering gear, and made some measurements. I could probably move it upward about an inch and half and also little bit forward, no more than 1". Then I might get enough clearance for tierod. Naturally I would have to use XJ shaft to keep steering wheel connected to steering gear.

Is that a good idea, or should I try something else?

How much seperation do you have?

 

[4x4_76]

How much seperation do you have?

I'll measure it tomorrow. But there's not much. Probably the worst case is when tires are turned lock to left and passenger side flexes out, either it bends tierod or tierod end will pop out.

I need some kind of mock-up tierod to see whole picture.

There's also one other thing I could do. If tierod end fits between the frame and pitman arm, all I need to do is to drill taper from top of the pitman arm and mount tierod above the pitman arm.

 

[4x4_76]

Oh, I messed up with terms... When I was earlier talking about tierod, I actually ment draglink.

I took a quick look under the 'Burban, didn't have time to take any measures, I spend most of the evening with agricultural activities But anyway, instead of relocating steering gear, I'm gonna re-taper the pitman arm. There's plenty of space betweem the arm and the frame. This way I get enough separation between the two, and it probably will work on flexy situations, too. One other thing I discovered, that draglink above pitman arm also gives much more down travel. If both, DL and panhard were level (which supposed to be best situation), there would be very little clearance between the panhards frame end and radius arm axle bracket. I was ready to notch the axle bracket if needed. With angled panhard, there is about 1/3 more down travel.

I'll take pics tomorrow if I have time.

 

[4x4_76]

Damn camera battery died so no pics yet

However, I found that I was making a big mistake. For some reason, I was mounting draglink to second hole on the steering arm. Last night I started to wonder that could it be better on the first hole, and when I found pic of it, I realized that it IS the right hole! Boy I felt stupid So the draglink clears the panhard on normal driving conditions. When I get radius arm brackets to frame done, I can cycle and flex axle to see how it works. So far so good.

I'll be moving 'Burban to different garage, where I can hang engine to roof beam. That way I can build engine crossmember and also place weight on springs to see how much they compress.

I've been wondering how much my 'Burban will weight after it's done (without stronger bumpers, winches and skidplates) with 1 ton running gear. You who have diesel/SM465/205/D60/14FF, what's the scale reading?

 

[4x4_76]

Took a while to get pics, but here's some (unfortunately they are bit blurry).

Here is draglink mounted under the pitman arm and arm centered:

Here same from the side:

With this setup, panhard may hit diff cover when passenger side uptravels, and on a drivers side it hits radius arm bracket.

Next three pics are centered, full lock right and full lock left:

Looks better. Draglink end fits between the pitman arm and the frame, and there seems to be enough space between the panhard bar and the draglink. When in full lock either way, draglink moves away from panhard, so there is no risk of collision between the two.

If I'm not mistaken, I'll need 7 degree drill to taper arm from above?

Couple pics of the axle end panhard bracket:

I wanted to get all the possible clearance under that big 14FF, so cut off piece of the pumpkin. I may have got carried away with grinder, looks to me that diff won't fit inside. I know that I have to take little from ring gear, and maybe I grind a small pocket to make room for a ring gear:

Did that 1,5 years ago, and now I read couple of days ago that there's been strenght issues with axles shaved like mine Is that true?

I've been thinking to use air springs instead of coils. That way I could easily adjust front end height when winch is mounted, or some other mods are done that affects to weight. No need to play with coils or spacers. And if I get stuck from the frame, like to a rock or a tree stump, I can easily lift 'Burban free just by adding more pressure to bags

 

[imiceman44]

Took a while to get pics, but here's some (unfortunately they are bit blurry).

Here is draglink mounted under the pitman arm and arm centered:

Here same from the side:

With this setup, panhard may hit diff cover when passenger side uptravels, and on a drivers side it hits radius arm bracket.

Next three pics are centered, full lock right and full lock left:

Looks better. Draglink end fits between the pitman arm and the frame, and there seems to be enough space between the panhard bar and the draglink. When in full lock either way, draglink moves away from panhard, so there is no risk of collision between the two.

If I'm not mistaken, I'll need 7 degree drill to taper arm from above?

Couple pics of the axle end panhard bracket:

I wanted to get all the possible clearance under that big 14FF, so cut off piece of the pumpkin. I may have got carried away with grinder, looks to me that diff won't fit inside. I know that I have to take little from ring gear, and maybe I grind a small pocket to make room for a ring gear:

Did that 1,5 years ago, and now I read couple of days ago that there's been strenght issues with axles shaved like mine Is that true?

I've been thinking to use air springs instead of coils. That way I could easily adjust front end height when winch is mounted, or some other mods are done that affects to weight. No need to play with coils or spacers. And if I get stuck from the frame, like to a rock or a tree stump, I can easily lift 'Burban free just by adding more pressure to bags

The reason you are having clearance issues between the P bar and the diff is that you have it attached too low.
Usually the braket is taller and puts the bar higher which gives you enough clearance when the P side droops.
I wouldn't have shaved the 14b that much especially when you ended up welding a thick piece like this, I would have just shaved the ribs and made it smooth.
As for air bags, with a setup like yours I would definitely do an air bag system.

Good work, keep us updated.

 

[4x4_76]

The reason you are having clearance issues between the P bar and the diff is that you have it attached too low.
Usually the braket is taller and puts the bar higher which gives you enough clearance when the P side droops.
I wouldn't have shaved the 14b that much especially when you ended up welding a thick piece like this, I would have just shaved the ribs and made it smooth.
As for air bags, with a setup like yours I would definitely do an air bag system.

Good work, keep us updated.

And other reason for issues is because I took example from a Toyota LJ It has panhard mounted close to axle centerline, but then again, it has much smaller diff. But, we'll see how it works. I keep current design 'till I can ramp it.

 

[4x4_76]

Made some reserach about air bags, and most likely I'll be using 8x3 bags (or bellows, which is correct term). They have static height of 8" on 58 PSI (205 mm on 4 bar), min/max height 4"/13.8" (100/350), and max diameter 9.5" (240mm). Travel also 10" (250mm).

My brother pointed out that I also need a leveling system. Makes sense, because if I adjust height when unloaded, it will sag when loaded. Needs a little tinkering to create leveling system that works, but I already have an idea. I use 3/2 control valve, that's connected to a radius arm via lever and rod. Valve is mounted to a shock tower, up in engine compartment, out of harms way. However, that system alone won't do the task, it needs more valves and electronis, otherwise it keeps loading and unloading bellows when driving.

Of course I need onboard air, air bellows need lots of air, and luckily I already have a York compressor.

 

[4x4_76]

Those 8x3 bellows seem to be rather large between the axle and frame. Made some measurements, and drivers side is ok, it fits, but on a passenger side, there's panhard bracket on a way. Maybe I have take it off, and think it over again.

Hmm, just occured to my mind, is there a room for cross-over arm? 6x3 belllow might be more suitable...

 

[4x4_76]

May be better of with rolling sleeve design over a bellow. After hours of google, all I found was that rolling sleeve works better.

And boy, what about that leveling thingy? 3/2 control valve system won't work, too long levers needed, and it's quite inaccurate. Magnetic control valve and inductive limit switch / airspring for starters, and from there I can make it better. Takes too much time to make it good once and for all, there's allready lot of work to do.

 

[4x4_76]

Took the whole front clip off, much easier work with it now. Got tired of jumping over the rad support, and especially on a warm day like this. Snapped only two screws, one had to be drilled off and other with hack saw. Didn't even bother to remove inner fender from outer on a drivers side, all the screws attaching the two were rusted.

After all the removed parts were out of garage, I measured the axle location, and it was off almost 2" from center! And I thought it was precisely centered Good thing I removed the front clip.

I found perfect rolling sleeve airspring, 6,5" overall diameter and static height of 10" so if air suspension turns out to be a lemon, I can easily switch to coils w/o big mods. And price was only about $40 more than bellows. I feared that they might be double the bellows

 

[4x4_76]

Got carried away now that the front clip is off That piece of fender is from my Blazer project, where I was going to build tapered tilt nose.

Just noticed a small design flaw on that fender, it should've been cut little angled, now it may not go up. It prolly gets stuck with front part when lifted.

Few meters of tubing to build subframe, to keep front part of the frmae overflexin. Also the radiator support needs to be done.

Not sure that will I build the tilt now, or later.

Now there's nicely room to build, no need to crawl under the front fenders. Just makes me wonder, why I didn't do that earlier?

I cut off the top section from the 2wd engien/suspension crossmember. I'm using it as a template/base to create engine crossmember. ORD has one, but I'm not sure will it fit.

 

[4x4_76]

Hoisted the engine in place to see if there's any issues with clearance. I may have to make some mods to oilpan, looks like draglink might hit it. Maybe I just make a small dent with hammer.

Also made some mock-up brackets to radius arms. Looks too tall to me, some 3/4" could be taken off.

There seems to be plenty of room between the oilpan and the engine xmember. Now that engine is in place, I can easily fab the xmember.

Decided to mount York in place of the alternator. Wanted to make the engine and accessories one tight package. Can't do much about them now before I get new pulleys for waterpump and crank. Now I have 2 groove pulleys, but I'm trying to find some 3 or 4 groove ones.

Couple of days ago I got call from safety inspector. I delivered three A4s of paper last week to safety inspection station, all full of text of what I'm doing to Suburban, and how. He told that all looks good. I was very pleased, now it's easy to build knowing I may get that damn thing registered

 

[4x4_76]

Now there's engine crossmember. Turned out pretty good, it's a shame I don't have a tubing bender, I made bends by cut and weld so it looks bit hack to me.

I bolted empty TH350 case to engine to support it so I could use engine hoist to flex front axle. Radius arm brackets were only tacked to axle, but I thought that they hold little flexing. Well, they did not. Panhard mount broke off, luckily everything else stayed in place.

I removed the whole floor carpeting, and found out that cargo area had 10+ rust holes in it And I thought that I don't need to patch any rust holes! Now that has to be done, might as well chop that one feet or so off the rear hang. Just need make sure I don't get in trouble on safety inspection. That part was not covered on my documentation.

 

[4x4_76]

Progress has been slow. Figures, I was on my summer vacation, and had so much other things to do, that I barely had time to work with my projects.

Came up with a major problem, that 14FF I have is from a Van, and it has 6.3" wider WMS to WMS, compared to stock 12-bolt. Law allows only +-4" change on track widht. So, I have three options: get a SRW axle, cut the axel tubes and either find shorter shafts or cut'n weld shafts, or find a hubs from DRW or C&C 14FF. First one is expensive, second lot of work and third hard to find. For now I'm going on number three, hopefully I'll find hubs.

Took the 'Burban out from garage, I have to separate body from the frame and sandblast the frame and some of the body. After painting I make new brake and fuel lines.

 

[Big91RustyBucket]

Unfortynately, modifying the arm is not possible. Well, for off-road only vehicle, yes, but for streetlegal truck, it needs to be as it is. I guess it will articulate just fine, I've seen couple of Range Rovers articulate quite nicely, and they had same kind of arms, all bolts mounted. Just some trick bushings were used.

Grinder, here I come

Why can't you modify it at all? They have some rule you must use factory part's or what?