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anybody built a 454 for towing?

WyoSquareMan

WyoSquareMan

Blood type: GM
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Posts
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Location
Gillette, Wyoming
Hey guys I'm just looking for suggestions/ideas/build specs on building a 454bbc for a towing application in my 86 gmc3500 ccdrw 4x4 sm465/205/410 gears most of my pulling will be done at about 6000 to 12000 ft above sea level to go camping and snowmobiling

My last tow rig was a 2000 dodge 2500 cummins truck and I realize its not gonna have the power my dodge did but I don't think I'm being unrealistic on wanting it to pull my 25ft 5th wheel up the mountain without having to ride the piss out of the motor

I know a lot of the problem with this era BBC is the compression ratio but I've also heard that lower compression is better for towing but it makes more sence to me to have a higher compression ratio engine that is healthier and not having to work it as hard to do the same work

So please feel free to add your 2cents with sugestions and advice would really love to see some proven builds that work (carb,intake,heads,cam,bored,stroked?)

Of course I would love to slap a Cummins and a six speed in the old girl but I just can't swing that right now mabey later but for now I'm thinking a 454 will do me well for no more that I tow anymore
 
just thought id throw in ignition as well because I realize that it is important also, im also gonna throw up a pic of my truck for anybody that might want to see what im working with and also one of my camper I haven't had a chance to pull it or pull with the dually yet still working on getting some things straightened out
100MEDIA36IMAG0332_zpsutoharcg.jpg






IMG_20140624_175255_245_zpskkli2ilb.jpg
 
livid4dirt said:
Diggin that truck, good looking beast right there.
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thanks man im hoping it will be a good truck for me im still working on getting it road ready ive been trying to replace everything with new parts as soon as I can afford to, haha ive just got the motor freshened up and in the truck that was with the truck and it sounds good but I cant help but think about what I can do with the other 454 laying around to make the truck pull better :D
 
I don't have much to offer you to you as far as your question goes,but I do like the rig you are working with
 
You might be happy with it just the way it is...sometimes hopping up an engine doesn't always improve things...the 454 even in stock form is a pretty strong torque monster,especially if the gearing is right for it..

454's with small "peanut port" heads pull really well at lower RPMs,and you dont want high revs with a long stroke engine like a 454 either really,that leads to tossed rods and spun bearings...the stock cam or an RV/towing cam designed for lower RPM use will deliver better performance than a higher lift and duration one will under heavy loads and lower RPM's..

Altitude in your case might allow a compression ratio increase,but the higher you raise it,the more likely it will be that detonation and pinging will happen,also increases coolant temparature,so those things may work against you rather than help all that much..

I'd just run it as is and tweak the timing,give it a good tune up,and see how it performs...it will probably surprise you...just expect it to get poor gas mileage no matter what you do to it...one thing a big block chevy isn't is "economical" to run...
 
That is a real beauty of a vintage but practical truck. Congrats on the nice find.

An hi -torque RV cam may be a good upgrade. A more modern aftermarket cam doesn't have to worry about the same gov't emission parameters that OEM needed to meet at the fleet level. As mentioned in the above post, just a low rpm grunt cam. I'd keep all else as is motor wise. Low compression is ok, and it is nice to be able to use regular fuel vs premium. Competition Cams has a nice online catalog for browsing. See if you can find the OEM cam specs so you can see what the potential gain is with an RV cam.

The only other thing to consider would be a good set of headers. This is said to really help 454 motors out as the factory exhaust is constrictive.

Like diesel4me stated, you can't make these into fuel sippers. I'd run it as is first, tinker with it, and then consider the cam and exhaust if you feel like you want to tweak it even more.
 
Good heads. It makes the engine more efficient. Efficiency is good in an engine that enjoys the finer fuels in life
 
thanks guys I cant really give a solid number on annual millage sorry but im gonna guess it will make anywhere from 3 to 10 trips to the mountain a year (depending on cash flow and whats happening in life) with each of those being an average of about 300 miles round trip im gonna guess, with one major trip to cooke city Montana to go riding being a 650 to 700mi round trip

and on the header issue when I got the truck it had some kind of weird pseudo factory headers from what the guy told me they are called rv headers but anyway ill attach a pic for u guys not sure what size the primarys are but heres a pic

IMG_20141103_170705_158_zpsaad65056.jpg
 
oh yea and I forgot to mention you guys can trust I don't have high expectations for fuel millage and thanks ned I know I was sacrificing quite a bit by getting rid of my dodge but Ive always really loved the old crewcabs and I think the trade off is totally worth it to have a sweet classic hauler
 
bump the compression just a bit, small domes like speed pro 426h pistons will net you about 8.6, not the 7.75 you have now, small cam comp 260 or 268, performer intake and small tube headers, will be a pulling beast and run on pump gas swill
 
Pretty certain those are the factory stainless "headers". Don't see them real often, pretty cool.

IMO, having seen my Dad go from a 454 to a 6.6L Duramax (2004) the 454 is not a good option for towing up steep grades. Probably going to get flamed for that statement, but from HIS experience, it was true.

454 (70's car block/heads) with a "mild" cam, headers, TBI, tuned, 465/gearvendors OD/4.10/~33" tires, could not tow his 3000lb travel trailer over a 2500ft mountain pass going but 45MPH. Best MPG 13, unloaded, flat ground.

Duramax, stock trim in every regard, pulls it at 70MPH. 18MPG flat ground unloaded.

I know it's apples to oranges, but I'd seriously consider a diesel of some sort (as in a diesel swap) before dumping a bunch of money into a gas rig for towing, if one can be done that is an actual improvement over the 454. It's only one experience, and who knows how well that 454 was actually put together, but I know he wasn't happy with how it towed, and that was a lot of time/money/effort dumped into getting it built for that purpose.

Edit: I do need to add that it's a 5 speed auto, so that probably makes a large difference in how effective the diesel can be kept in its optimum RPM range, where with the 465 you don't have that option, even with an OD setup.
 
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As the others said, bump compression slightly, add a small cam (RV), maybe check into short length headers, and most importantly.....heads. Heads will be the winner here. And don't get aluminum either. If you have some coin to spend, I'd check out the Merlin heads. Can't go wrong with those even for a motor that's almost stock.
 
I don't understand why MPG is such a concern? Diesel is about a buck more a gallon than unleaded right now. Comparing diesel to gas MPG is apples to oranges these days.

At any rate, I agree with a couple others, just run it as it is and see how bad it really is. You might be just fine with it. If not, a cam swap and a set of headers will be a great place to start. Oh, and advancing the timing a bit is usually a big help in the seat-of-the-pants driving feel.
 
wow i have to say i am kind of surprised by how many people are bringing a diesel truck in to this im really stoked (and figured I would have more support) about running a big block classic truck for a tow rig but I cant wait to finaly have a trailer behind this thing thanks for all the imput guys
 
I ran a weiand stealth manifold with a holley 3310-3, some 2.25 hedman headers, a mallory distributor, MSD 6AL and a comp cams extreme energy cam/pete jackson gear drive and roller tipped rockers on a stock 1971 454 short block with oval ports heads a mild port job and a 3 angle valve job. It would pull hard no matter what. I also had a built th400 with a 1800 stall conv and a set of 3.55's out back. This was on a 74 C20 that was cut down to swb length. Damn I miss that truck. But yeah it pulled a 24ft 1990 terry travel trailer at 70+ mph up the cajon pass almost monthly for several years. Heaviest I towed was a 32.5 ft springdale that weighed 7000+ dry for a buddy who's 05 F250 6.4 ate the turbo. Again towed it with no problem. Only issue I ever had with it was with brakes. Not enough for what that engine could pull.
 
WyoSquareMan said:
wow i have to say i am kind of surprised by how many people are bringing a diesel truck in to this im really stoked (and figured I would have more support) about running a big block classic truck for a tow rig but I cant wait to finaly have a trailer behind this thing thanks for all the imput guys
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Most people will rightfully point out that if you plan on doing any serious or frequent towing, diesel is the way to go. That being said, you have a good platform for a tow rig. It's a fine looking truck, and given what diesel trucks, fuel, and maintenance cost these days, for many people the diesel equation doesn't add up. If it were me, I'd try to find a Vortec 454 (or 8.1 if your budget/fabrication skills allow) and drop it in, and get the best of power, efficiency, and reliability.
 
I actually know a guy with an 8.1 that was trying to get me to buy from him a while back don't remember how much but if gonna go 496 route why not just build a mild one with the block I have or mabey 468? But then I supose that all depends on what I could get an engine for
 
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