My dead stock K30 pulled my burb and trailer fine. It lacked two things an overdrive and it got 5 mpg towing.
Build it if you got it.
Build it if you got it.
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
anybody built a 454 for towing?
- Thread starter WyoSquareMan
- Start date
My old man runs a 77 c20, 454 stock other than a rv cam and exhaust. 3:21 gears. Thing has lots of grunt, pulls like a champ. W/o trailer it will get 14 mpg and towing 8-10. That's our Canadian gallon.
But yeah his duramax he runs now doesn't even compare. But for the 30 years the c20 pulled full time, fuel was never an issue. It was always less than payments on a new one.
But yeah his duramax he runs now doesn't even compare. But for the 30 years the c20 pulled full time, fuel was never an issue. It was always less than payments on a new one.
3.21 gears. In a 14FF, pretty rare. Almost the ultimate ratio for a full floater without going with an overdrive tranny.
Seems to me towing was always the purpose of the truck 454. Most performance builds are to get more HP, but for towing you just want the low- and mid-range torque. It sounds like you're looking for more fuel economy, but gas is cheap. Add up how many miles you'll tow, the cost of the parts and the cost of the gas you might save.
Getting the carb set right for high altitude is probably important, though. A distributor re-curve could be some cheap torque, too.
Getting the carb set right for high altitude is probably important, though. A distributor re-curve could be some cheap torque, too.
3.21 gears. In a 14FF, pretty rare. Almost the ultimate ratio for a full floater without going with an overdrive tranny.
Yeah its one you dont see much.
Makes the truck nice to drive, will cruise all day long at 70 mph and not rev the snot outta it.
I don't want to belabor the topic, but just to put it in perspective...Vortec 454 was rated for 405ft lbs at who knows what RPM, and will yield maybe 13-14 MPG unloaded. A ~2004 vintage Duramax is rated for 520ft lbs at 1800RPM, and pulls down 18MPG unloaded. There is no comparison, and IMO there is no way the 454 can be considered "good" for towing in light of those figures. Better than a lower torque motor, of course. But someone out there thinks a 292 makes a perfectly decent towing motor too...
The 6.6L probably isn't a fair comparison in these trucks, but I'm guessing a 6BT(?) or 6.5L would be, since they can actually be fit in these rigs.
I hate gas, I really should have gone diesel, and I don't even tow. If I was serious about towing, I wouldn't consider anything else. After having seen the 454 against a decent diesel, I know I'd be disappointed going with gas. But that's me of course.
What is your budget? And rebuild or tune up?
For tune up I would swap the cam, put on some real long tube headers, and put an Eddy RPM intake on it. Will give you more power everywhere basically even if its a low RPM motor.
For rebuild, I would get a Scat cast stroker crank and new pistons. A mild cam, RPM intake, and headers. New oval port AL heads if you got the cash. 600 ft lbs easy.
For tune up I would swap the cam, put on some real long tube headers, and put an Eddy RPM intake on it. Will give you more power everywhere basically even if its a low RPM motor.
For rebuild, I would get a Scat cast stroker crank and new pistons. A mild cam, RPM intake, and headers. New oval port AL heads if you got the cash. 600 ft lbs easy.
vandelay industries
1/2 ton status
I don't want to belabor the topic, but just to put it in perspective...Vortec 454 was rated for 405ft lbs at who knows what RPM, and will yield maybe 13-14 MPG unloaded. A ~2004 vintage Duramax is rated for 520ft lbs at 1800RPM, and pulls down 18MPG unloaded. There is no comparison, and IMO there is no way the 454 can be considered "good" for towing in light of those figures. Better than a lower torque motor, of course. But someone out there thinks a 292 makes a perfectly decent towing motor too...
The 6.6L probably isn't a fair comparison in these trucks, but I'm guessing a 6BT(?) or 6.5L would be, since they can actually be fit in these rigs.
I hate gas, I really should have gone diesel, and I don't even tow. If I was serious about towing, I wouldn't consider anything else. After having seen the 454 against a decent diesel, I know I'd be disappointed going with gas. But that's me of course.
True, Duramax probably is superior to big block for towing AND fuel economy.
BUT, big block has lower(much lower?) initial cost. How many miles of driving w/ the duramax would it take to break even?
This is the one thing that is keeping me from diesel. Well, that plus i have no experience installing one. ( i would go with 6.2/6.5)
Ned Kelly
1/2 ton status
That is the key - when do you break even on a diesel swap?
This mpg vs fuel cost and mileage driven per year may help figure out he savings on fuel.
http://calcnexus.com/fuel-cost-calculator.php
WyoSquareMan
Blood type: GM
That is exactly my point here it doesn't make sence for me to go diesel just yet due to the annual milage and costs of a diesel with the maintenance, repair, and fuel cost
Ned Kelly
1/2 ton status
I too was contemplating a diesel swap at one time, but after crunching all the numbers it wasn't a cost wise move me.
I would not reccomend a 6.2 for towing,they have a hard enough time propelling just the truck IMO--maybe a 6.5 with a turbo would be OK,but the fuel mileage will suffer enough towing, to bring any "economy" and mpg down to compareable levels to using the 454, and running it on cheaper gasoline..
A Cummins or Isuzu diesel would be the best choice,or maybe a Duramax,but good luck finding one of those 3 cheap enough to be worth the expense and hassle of installing into an older truck...personally I'd stick with the 454 ..
A Cummins or Isuzu diesel would be the best choice,or maybe a Duramax,but good luck finding one of those 3 cheap enough to be worth the expense and hassle of installing into an older truck...personally I'd stick with the 454 ..
454
A well built 454 will blow the doors off of a 6.2 or a 6.5 in any towing situation. If fuel economy was the prime subject of this thread, the author would have asked a totally different question. Take your original Gen IV core, or a nice Gen VI roller block and build it. If you use your original (Gen IV) block, bump the compression to 8.5-9 staying closer to the 8.5. Throw those peanut port head away and find a set of "049" or "781" oval port heads and build them. They will produce a ton more torque and horsepower over those peanuts. Make sure to get them surfaced, install hardened exhaust seats, and new guides. A little gasket matching and MILD port cleaning will do wonders on those heads also! If you wanted to throw fuel economy out the window for mega torque, you could have the heads worked for the larger 2.19/1.88 valves. With the right camshaft, this combination is outstanding for low end torque and horsepower--I have done this more than once!! Understand though that with the larger valves and towing you are probably talking 4-6 MPG! I would recommend keeping the camshaft duration @.50 220* or under, and lift not much over .520. If you decide to go with a Gen VI block, you can get away with a little more duration and lift because of it being roller! Good ignition parts, and a good induction and exhaust system are also important in making everything work together! These specs have worked awesome for me in the past, and am planning one for my Blazer as we speak! Good Luck!!
A well built 454 will blow the doors off of a 6.2 or a 6.5 in any towing situation. If fuel economy was the prime subject of this thread, the author would have asked a totally different question. Take your original Gen IV core, or a nice Gen VI roller block and build it. If you use your original (Gen IV) block, bump the compression to 8.5-9 staying closer to the 8.5. Throw those peanut port head away and find a set of "049" or "781" oval port heads and build them. They will produce a ton more torque and horsepower over those peanuts. Make sure to get them surfaced, install hardened exhaust seats, and new guides. A little gasket matching and MILD port cleaning will do wonders on those heads also! If you wanted to throw fuel economy out the window for mega torque, you could have the heads worked for the larger 2.19/1.88 valves. With the right camshaft, this combination is outstanding for low end torque and horsepower--I have done this more than once!! Understand though that with the larger valves and towing you are probably talking 4-6 MPG! I would recommend keeping the camshaft duration @.50 220* or under, and lift not much over .520. If you decide to go with a Gen VI block, you can get away with a little more duration and lift because of it being roller! Good ignition parts, and a good induction and exhaust system are also important in making everything work together! These specs have worked awesome for me in the past, and am planning one for my Blazer as we speak! Good Luck!!
The only thing you can compare are the hard numbers. Economy and power output.
You are either happy or unhappy with the finished product. After seeing a fair bit of time and effort dumped into a 454, then have that blown out of the water with a bone stock $8000 truck, is a little disheartening. I think some may be happy with towing and a 454 on flat ground, you can't get to flat ground around here without going up first.
As long as your goals are reasonable, and you are ok with the results, you made the right decision, gas or diesel. If you are talking about building something up, you better be darn sure when you get done spending the money, that you are where you wanted to be.
And let's face it, in these trucks, there is a LOT of changing things around as projects progress.
You are either happy or unhappy with the finished product. After seeing a fair bit of time and effort dumped into a 454, then have that blown out of the water with a bone stock $8000 truck, is a little disheartening. I think some may be happy with towing and a 454 on flat ground, you can't get to flat ground around here without going up first.
As long as your goals are reasonable, and you are ok with the results, you made the right decision, gas or diesel. If you are talking about building something up, you better be darn sure when you get done spending the money, that you are where you wanted to be.
And let's face it, in these trucks, there is a LOT of changing things around as projects progress.
WyoSquareMan
Blood type: GM
I agree that even I'm not sure what the future might hold for my classic hauler but for right now I don't think I have my expectations too high, I'm kind of sticking with the classic theme right now and I would love to stuff a 6bt under the hood (the thought of a 4bt even crosses my MIMD from time to time) but I can buy a lot of premium for $8000
$8000 will definitely buy a lot of gas lol. Even swapping in a 4 or 6BT you'd probably never break even on economy.
WyoSquareMan
Blood type: GM
Exactly and who really cares if I drive at 55-60 to go play I can leave a little earlier don't bother me none
Exactly and who really cares if I drive at 55-60 to go play I can leave a little earlier don't bother me none
That's gonna be me. 6.2 turbo is what's going in my crew. Course the 4.56 gears and no over drive might be more of what's keeping me at 55 to 60
That's gonna be me. 6.2 turbo is what's going in my crew. Course the 4.56 gears and no over drive might be more of what's keeping me at 55 to 60
This thought amuses me. That 6.2 will sound like the scream of a dying cat at that engine speed...
Depends on the tars. With 37's 60 is very comfortable on mine. I'll run 65 for a couple hours going to wheel and it sounds good. I wish I had a turbo. Even without I don't notice using more than 1/4 throttle at that speed. I can't imagine why some people think they won't pull themselves down the road with even smaller tires.This thought amuses me. That 6.2 will sound like the scream of a dying cat at that engine speed...
