Kjunky5
1/2 ton status
^^Having a name like "3 on the tree", I figured you for a manual guy.
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
Are there advantages of auto or manual tranny for rocks
- Thread starter Hubnut
- Start date
Fabrimacator21
1/2 ton status
well said.
Originally Posted by Kjunky5 
Having rebuilt automatics, I'm partial to them. Compression braking in 1st,2nd,and 3rd gear. Ability to lock converter for even more compression braking. Torque multiplying converter. What's not to like. I know you can pull start a manual but you can do that with an auto too. Using an Accusump. One less pedal and stick to worry about. Now having said all that, manuals are fun to drive. Wouldn't want to do it day in and day out though.
Auto>Manual
Yep, totally agree. OK, This guy quoted above HAS settled the debate and autos are the winner, obviously autos ARE the best, you all read what he said. Nothing said after my post matters at all, so go home, the years of debate has finally ended with a clear winner, the auto transmission. No really autos ARE the winner, you can stop typing now. LOL!
j/k 
hahaha
Having rebuilt automatics, I'm partial to them. Compression braking in 1st,2nd,and 3rd gear. Ability to lock converter for even more compression braking. Torque multiplying converter. What's not to like. I know you can pull start a manual but you can do that with an auto too. Using an Accusump. One less pedal and stick to worry about. Now having said all that, manuals are fun to drive. Wouldn't want to do it day in and day out though.
Auto>Manual
Yep, totally agree. OK, This guy quoted above HAS settled the debate and autos are the winner, obviously autos ARE the best, you all read what he said. Nothing said after my post matters at all, so go home, the years of debate has finally ended with a clear winner, the auto transmission. No really autos ARE the winner, you can stop typing now. LOL!
j/k hahahaK5dreamer
1/2 ton status
man, you girls and excuses about traffic
i live in D.C., and drive stick on the reg. but i guess its really a personal preference thing. I think also the application effects the choice in transmission. As i stated before, the daily driver is the 90hp diesel jetta, so an automatic would just SUCK. no matter how well setup. same kinda applies to a 6.2L diesel, not alot of power, the manual allows you to make the most of it. i HATE my TH400 for its shift points, and power suckage. i cannot wait to do my manual conversion. I almost want to do the manual conversion before the axles and lift to compare apples to apples. but dont wanna put money into my 10 bolts to get through inspection.
now if you had a built 496 big block, an auto may be a better choice.
i live in D.C., and drive stick on the reg. but i guess its really a personal preference thing. I think also the application effects the choice in transmission. As i stated before, the daily driver is the 90hp diesel jetta, so an automatic would just SUCK. no matter how well setup. same kinda applies to a 6.2L diesel, not alot of power, the manual allows you to make the most of it. i HATE my TH400 for its shift points, and power suckage. i cannot wait to do my manual conversion. I almost want to do the manual conversion before the axles and lift to compare apples to apples. but dont wanna put money into my 10 bolts to get through inspection.
now if you had a built 496 big block, an auto may be a better choice.
original balzer
1/2 ton status
fmstruck
1/2 ton status
K5dreamer said:
My tow rig/backup trail rig has a 496 and my K5 has a fairly healthy 12.5:1 427. Both had autos. Both now have manuals.
I admittedly have never wheeled an auto in the rocks, but I like how the only wear part with a manual is the $120 clutch as opposed to a several hundred dollar auto transmission. I have a buddy who was a die hard auto guy. The K30 he bought is a stick. He is a new convert.
Kjunky5
1/2 ton status
Has a spring/piston that stores pressurized atf. It's hooked to the pressure port tap. Keeps system under pressure in case you're on a step incline and the pump pick up is uncovered. With the engine off, stored pressure can apply the clutches when released. Lock the TC. Pull down to manual 1st to add overrun frictions. Start pulling. Release pressure. Won't last long though.
It's all personal preference. I like autos, and have converted several others in our club to auto trans after they watched me on the trails. I'm by no means trying to say manuals are bad.
The biggest thing is making sure you are comparing apples to apples (as much as possible considering you are comparing an auto to a manual trans). A good friend runs a factory auto trans and t-case setup but doesn't like the fact he has to use the brakes going down any hill on the trail. I also run a factory auto trans and t-case but rarely have to use the brakes. So what's the difference? His factory setup (C6/205...same as a TH400/205) with 4.10 axles only nets him a 19.1 crawl ratio. My 700r4/241 combo with the same axles gives me 34:1. That's a pretty big difference.
Basically it all depends on the overall gearing. Most people on this board are using the SM465 or NV4500 as the manual trans rep which has a really low granny gear, while a lot are comparing the TH400 or TH350 which have a pretty poor 1st gear. The NP205 t-case also has a pretty poor low range.
The biggest thing is making sure you are comparing apples to apples (as much as possible considering you are comparing an auto to a manual trans). A good friend runs a factory auto trans and t-case setup but doesn't like the fact he has to use the brakes going down any hill on the trail. I also run a factory auto trans and t-case but rarely have to use the brakes. So what's the difference? His factory setup (C6/205...same as a TH400/205) with 4.10 axles only nets him a 19.1 crawl ratio. My 700r4/241 combo with the same axles gives me 34:1. That's a pretty big difference.
Basically it all depends on the overall gearing. Most people on this board are using the SM465 or NV4500 as the manual trans rep which has a really low granny gear, while a lot are comparing the TH400 or TH350 which have a pretty poor 1st gear. The NP205 t-case also has a pretty poor low range.
original balzer
1/2 ton status
good point! My 97 gmc had the crappy gertag or however its spelled and 1st gear just flat out sucked off road. I had to use low range in the transfer case a lot more than I liked. I would have actually prefered an auto over that particular manual trans. Of course that truck had 3.73 gears and 35" tires but still it was just crappy for low speed off road.
Some K5's had diff gears as high as 3.08, 3.40 which with 35's could suck with either trans.
My 2 cents again...
If I could build anything I wanted, it would be an auto. It would have low gearing and an overdrive, and be capable full (real) manual shift, and butter soft freeway shift for the ride home...
It would do things like hold me back going downhill (compression braking), and anything else manuals do for me...
I CAN'T AFFORD THIS TRANSMISSION!
So for now I'm stuck with a sm465 and np241. My clutch knee gets to hurting, and it can be tricky navigating some obstacles right now because I have no hand throttle or electric throttle conrol... will be coming though.
Also, how many of you auto guys are able to put your transfer in low, and then take off in second or third gear (in the tranny)? Very easy to do with a cheap sm465...
Auto? At least a manual valve body, maybe more? $$$$$$$$$$$$$
I know of a ford tranny and a toyota tranny that were capable of this from the factory... can't afford either one, and would't think either would mate to a motor I would want to run.
If I could build anything I wanted, it would be an auto. It would have low gearing and an overdrive, and be capable full (real) manual shift, and butter soft freeway shift for the ride home...
It would do things like hold me back going downhill (compression braking), and anything else manuals do for me...
I CAN'T AFFORD THIS TRANSMISSION!
So for now I'm stuck with a sm465 and np241. My clutch knee gets to hurting, and it can be tricky navigating some obstacles right now because I have no hand throttle or electric throttle conrol... will be coming though.
Also, how many of you auto guys are able to put your transfer in low, and then take off in second or third gear (in the tranny)? Very easy to do with a cheap sm465...
Auto? At least a manual valve body, maybe more? $$$$$$$$$$$$$
I know of a ford tranny and a toyota tranny that were capable of this from the factory... can't afford either one, and would't think either would mate to a motor I would want to run.
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
yeah, im currently suffering though the 3.08 gears and TH400 with the crappy first gear.
very excited to put in my 1 tons with 4.10s, and someday my NV4500
I think 6.2Blazer makes a very valid point, there is a big issue of gearing.
nowadays, even in brand new cars, the issue of auto vs manual has changed. nowadays automatics are faster, and getter fuel economy than manuals, which is a big switch from even 10-20 years ago. nowadays driving a stick is simply about bragging rights and preference.
very excited to put in my 1 tons with 4.10s, and someday my NV4500
I think 6.2Blazer makes a very valid point, there is a big issue of gearing.
nowadays, even in brand new cars, the issue of auto vs manual has changed. nowadays automatics are faster, and getter fuel economy than manuals, which is a big switch from even 10-20 years ago. nowadays driving a stick is simply about bragging rights and preference.
MTMike
1/2 ton status
I had an auto and went to a 465 with a doubler, and my only regret is that I didn't do it years before.
fmstruck
1/2 ton status
The manual valve bodies that I have dealt with did not allow any engine braking at all in the bottom 2 gears. Granted the last one I had was so old that B&M didn't make parts for it anymore, but that's been my experience.
I think you would need to make the converter lock up at the same time. But the problem with most of the 700r4s and 4l60s I have driven, is that, even when you drop the lever down into 1st, the trans will shift into 2nd when it gets to a certain rpm anyway.
Most of the complaints about auto can be cured with a $30 shift kit. You can also get full auto reverse valve bodies with comp breaking in all gears. Check with art carr or redneck performance. Also in regards to gearing if you account the infinite gearing in the TC its a wash. I wouldn't get a high stall converter for crawling, you'll hate it. Manuals are more reliable by nature and are nice for some aplications that easing the clutch along, same as running brake and throttle on an auto. I have a basic th400 with a shift kit to stay in whatever gear I select but still auto shift if I put in 3rd and I use a modified pro stick shifter so I can hit N or R instantly in any gear I have it, great for recovering from a roll over backward or shutting down the tires before digging down in snow. IMO its just personal preference and either will get the power from the engine to the ground.
Kjunky5
1/2 ton status
A simple shift kit corrects this. The converter does not have to be locked for compression braking. In the 700r4, GM's stratagy for lock up is the TCC is feed by 2nd gear oil. No way to lock the TCC in first. 2,3,4 all lock. However Art Carr is the only producer of a VB that allows TCC lock in 1st that I am aware of. 4L60E's don't share the same stratagy.
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
i think its safe to say the answer to the original question is a resounding no.
its all about preference, some of us just enjoy driving stick, and some like the way driving an auto feels.
point is, either one, if the rest of the drivetrain is setup correct, will get you through the mud, across the stream, and over the moutain just as well as the other.
question is, whats your preference. doin the two step, or as was said (hopefully in jest) being able to drive while holding your beer.
and of course the bragging rights of driving a MANual transmission
as far as im concerned, for a low power truck, a manual is king. once youve got the power, run what you want.
its all about preference, some of us just enjoy driving stick, and some like the way driving an auto feels.
point is, either one, if the rest of the drivetrain is setup correct, will get you through the mud, across the stream, and over the moutain just as well as the other.
question is, whats your preference. doin the two step, or as was said (hopefully in jest) being able to drive while holding your beer.
and of course the bragging rights of driving a MANual transmission
as far as im concerned, for a low power truck, a manual is king. once youve got the power, run what you want.
Fabrimacator21
1/2 ton status
I'm interested in what others have said about torque converters multiplying torque.... how exactly does that work?
Is it sort of like a gear reduction by allowing the motor to get to a higher rpm from a stop?
Can someone explain?
Is it sort of like a gear reduction by allowing the motor to get to a higher rpm from a stop?
Can someone explain?
