Big block identification help needed

[Larry]

Anybody any good at identifying older big blocks? This one is supposed to be a 427 but looking for confirmation.

RH deck on engine block in front of cylinder head
CEO76872

LH rear bell housing flange
3963512

Next to the number above

On RH rear bell housing flange

On block above oil filter. Also says Hi-Perf Pass on the back of the block inside the bell housing area

Intake manifold

Thanks!

 

[1BEATK5]

That block was used for 427 and 454. I would take the pan off and get the crank number. Then you know for sure

 

[454Sub]

If i am not mistaken there was also 2 diff 427s, one that is the desirable one that everyone dreams of, and one that had a real oddball tall deck, 3 compression ring monstrosity that came in real heavy duty trucks. If you have the good one congrats, they are a badass motor and they have a cooler sounding CI, it just sounds more muscular than 454 IMO. LOL

 

[76zimmer]

That block was a 427/454 base casting...with that casting date I would think it was for a 454 application, but the CE in the stamping could be either one.
The heads look like closed chamber castings, perhaps 65/66 years...do you have a date of those?
As mentioned, you really don't know what you got until you start measuring bore/stroke.

 

[nvrenuf]

That block was used for 427 and 454. I would take the pan off and get the crank number. Then you know for sure

I checked a little pocket ID book I've got and came up with the same thing. When checking the heads though, they show to be for a 396.

Also, this is a regular short deck block as there were no 454 tall deck motors.

As for the "Hi Perf Pass" markings, those are common on most passenger type big blocks so it doesn't mean there's anything special about the motor.

Edit: it's hard to tell but it looks like an early, short style water pump in one of the pics.

 

[76zimmer]

I would guess a 2 bolt main as well...the oil cooler plugs are different sizes...oil cooler/4 bolt blocks were both the same size....but again, many variations.

That 3512 block is valuable though to the numbers matching guys....maybe 500-1000$ for a good block.

 

[1BEATK5]

If i am not mistaken there was also 2 diff 427s, one that is the desirable one that everyone dreams of, and one that had a real oddball tall deck, 3 compression ring monstrosity that came in real heavy duty trucks. If you have the good one congrats, they are a badass motor and they have a cooler sounding CI, it just sounds more muscular than 454 IMO. LOL

I would take that 3 compression ring oddball monstrosity any day. Bore it a bit, add a big crank for 500+ inches of torque monster

 

[Larry]

Thanks guys,

I just pruned this engine from my dad’s old ’78 K20 wrecker that I am parting out. My dad bought this truck new so I pretty much remember almost everything that was done to it over the years, even when I was in middle school. Heck, when I was a toddler they had a crib for me at the shop! I remember this big block was put in sometime around 1984/1985 then was yanked to be rebuilt in the late 80’s when I was in high school. Dad originally thought it was a 396 until the machine shop discovered it was a 427. My dad always talked how this thing was had 427 but I want to confirm what it is as I am going to sell it now that it is out of the truck. Depending what this engine actually is will have a big part in what I ask or it.

I do know this engine is internally balance so the 454 idea can be scrapped (454’s are externally balanced). I remember dad even talking about using the old 350 flywheel on this engine so that would mean this would have to be an internally balance engine, so either worse case senerio a 396 or better yet a 427. I also know for certain this is not a medium duty tall block 427. Those are easy to spot.

What sucks is I just dropped this engine on a roller stand so getting the pan off to peek at the crank is going to be a chore now. Guess I’ll have to lift it back up to take a peek in the pan. Damn it.

Before dismantling the truck

Saturday morning before it started getting ripped apart. I had to take the light bar off a few years ago so the neighbors wouldn't complain about seeing it over the fence

Sniff

Sniff sniff

This is one of the main reasons I scrapped the truck rather than rebody the chassis. This is one of two frame breaks where it was half assed repaired. You should see the prize winning bugger weld on the other side of the frame

465/205 cleaned up well

the engine cleaned up nicely too

The 4:10 ratio D44 and rear 14 FF are going in my Suburban and the 205 is replacing the noisy POS 205 in my K10. The SM465 and mystery big block will be sold.

The truck back in the hayday.

I am the little squirt holding the dog. A hunting scene is an odd place to see a tow truck, eh? LOL

Me being a punk teenage kid screwing around behind the shop when I was about 15 or 16.

I've known this truck all my life, she is going to be missed! Heck, I even learned how to drive in it. I really hated to throw it away but it was just too far gone to save. I lost my dad two years ago due to a stroke and parting this truck is like buring my dad all over again. The money from selling parts that I won't be using for my projects is going to be a suprise present for my mom. Hopefully this engine is a 427 and is worth something.

 

[63chevyll]

Wow, tough call scrapping it. I understand. Vehicles develop so much character over the years and always remind you of times.

At least you will be saving some parts to have in the that sweet Burb.

 

[sweetk30]

heck i would save the 1 good door and skin it for a wall hanging item with that old logo info on the side . . . .

 

[nvrenuf]

Sounds like the motor mystery is solved; "3963512" is a 427 or 454 block and you said its internally balanced so it has to be a 427.

 

[diesel4me]

My "How To Rebuild Your Big Block Chevy" book lists that block casting # as a 70-74 454...the heads are listed as 65-73 Chevy passenger,truck and GMC 396,402,427 heads,that have 96.4 cc combustion chambers and 2.06/1.72 intake and exhaust valves...The "CEO" code doesn't show up anywhere,and it could be that block was a factory replacemnt "Complete Engine" that uses a "CE" prefix...but this book hasn't listed every engine I looked up either,I've found some codes in Chiltons and Mitchell manuals and the best book to look them up in is a Hollander Interchange Manual that junkyards use,they had the most extensive listings out of any books I have used.................................................................................................My guess is you have a 454 block and someone put a 396 or 427 crank in it ,making it an internally balanced 427...this can be done pretty easily the pistons are different weights so the engine would have to be rebalanced ,but its not an uncommon procedure back in the day...the 427 crank has heavier counterweights than a 396 to compensate for the different piston weights..you can tell the 396/402 crank from a 427 by looking at the width of the third counterweight..count from the front of the engine--the 396 has a 7/16" wide counterweight,the 427 has one 7/8" wide..you can use either one provided you rebalance the engine...

 

[76zimmer]

from what info I've gathered over the years a CE engine is a warranty or crate engine.
It will have the CE code stamped into it, but usually the other numbers (vin #'s) are left up to the dealer to deal with.

 

[Larry]

A lot of good info. Thanks guys. I guess the next step is to pull off the oil pan and see what that crank casting number is. I am 99.9% sure this is a 427 but would like that number to for when I advertise it. Would the fact the CE engine is a service replacement have any negative effects on its value?

The poor truck met its maker today. I was sure the hell expecting more than $326.40 for it too The bed was full of scrap metal I’ve been accumulating the last few years. I always get hosed when I take crap to the scrap metal place.

I never thought the end of the road for it would be on top of two Oldsmobiles. Two clowns atually drove that blue Intrepid next to it into the place while I was there and walked out. Known Pueblo, they probably just stole it at the convenience store down the street

 

[76zimmer]

so sad...but inevitable for many I guess.
I don't think the CE will detract, but the other numbers may slightly...more than likely it would get decked on a rebuild and they'll be gone anyway.
someone looking for a numbers matching engine is looking for a dated block and the casting numbers...if they are looking they will never have an original engine again, so the next best thing is a numbers matching engine. Original is hard to prove without authentic documentation....build sheet, warranty cards, option sticker, dealer invoice, etc.

 

[80' 427]

That was so clean!

 

[76zimmer]

no ****, us salt belt guys would have taken it in a hot second.

 

[diesel4me]

Gee,did you HAVE to show us the "murder"??.......to me,that truck was still pretty "rust free" compared to the hulks I've owned all my life...but alas,thats the penalty for living here,sentenced to a lifetime of rust and rot when it comes to owning anything more than 5 years old....................................................................................................It must have been painful for you to watch the truck getting taken to its final resting place--I know I shed a few tears when I watched my '74 K2500 get squashed by a forkloader when I hauled its stipped carcass to the scrapyard...(I shoulda kept the 14 bolt and front axle !).......I had put that truck together and taken it apart many times,during my ownership it went from a jacked up monster with 36" tires and a hacker installed "lift kit" that I immediately removed and put it back on stock springs & axles,and I built a nice flatbed to replace its rotted fleetside bed after I had it for about 8 years..truck went from mud bogger,to a near pristine "stocker",to a rugged "work truck"...rust finally claimed its frame and was about to break in two near the gas tank,and then when its TH350 lost reverse,I figured I'd had enough,and I yanked the 400 SB and NP-205 out of it and hauled it off be crushed..............................................................................................I only got 223 bucks for it,FULL of scrap too,it was only 75 bucks a ton then...(and I thought that was GOOD,because for 5+ years previous,scrap was only bringing 10-15 bucks a ton here!...if I had left it to rust in my yard till this May,I could have gotten well over 600 bucks for it,scrap was 260 a ton then...today,about 150 bucks maybe...and yeah,I always get shafted when I bring scrap in too--unless your a "regular" who deals with the scrapyard on a daily basis here,they tend to bend over the "one timers" like me who only haul stuff in a few times a year....one day I cleaned up my yard and took 400 lbs of "light iron" in,and the guy at the scale said "thats only worth ten bucks maybe"...so I said "OK,I'll come back later with more".....................................................................................................instead,I put the scrap in a friends truck who does bussiness there almost daily,and he came back with 36.75 for me!.....I gave him ten bucks for hauling it in to the place 2 miles away...goes to show you how much they can rip you off if you dont "know" them well...

 

[Larry]

Everybody keeps mentioning how clean it was. Really, it wasn’t that clean. I lived in Detroit for 6 years and saw how bad salt belt trucks are in only 5 years. I offed my ’98 Z71 the minute I moved back to CO in 2001 for that reason. This K20 wasn’t as bad as a Michigan truck but it was bad by our western standards. Where there wasn’t rust it had body filler cracking off.

Back to the engine…. It turns out to be a 2 bolt block and I found the crank casting number too. 6223

Google said…..

Casting 6223
Application: 366/396/402/427
Years: 68-76
Journals: 2.75/2.20
Stroke: 3.76
Forged

This was on the crank too

So, it looks by the engine casting number it is a 427 block, with a 366/396/402/427 forged crank and 396 heads. Hmmm, whatch’all think? Now the big question is what is this big hunk of builder cubic inches worth? It was parked in 1997 due to loss of oil pressure. The engine does roll over nicely so I suspect cam bearings issues. The engine did have a boat load of miles on it and was using oil (and leaking) like crazy before it died. I also suspect my dad ran it low on oil causing the bearing issue as I only got out 2 to 3 qts of oil from the pan.

 

[76zimmer]

part it out...if you feel like messing with it, that 10 under forged crank should be 3-500$, and the block 500-1000 in the collector car markets. The closed chamber heads are still popular with class racers as well.
collect the $$$$ and buy a good used 454!