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Black Betty TBI swap

Well I put in the fram g3 filter before the pump and siphon primed the pump. had over 15 psi. adjusted the regulator down and am running a consistant 13.5-14 psi. I am going to chalk this up to the spectre clear filter. I tried a little experiment with re hooking up the tank to pump line and not siphon priming it. The filter housing never fully fills with fuel. Only about half way. Even with the pump running. Is this normal? If I lower the pump and filter below the tank height the filter housing will fill when the pump is off but as soon as you turn the pump on the filter housing goes to half full. Is this normal?

Motor is still running lean because it wants to back fire a little. I am going to focus on getting the 4wire O2 wired in and the OBD connector and park/neutral wire and re evaluate once that's all finished.
 
mrdrinksalil said:
Well I put in the fram g3 filter before the pump and siphon primed the pump. had over 15 psi. adjusted the regulator down and am running a consistant 13.5-14 psi. I am going to chalk this up to the spectre clear filter. I tried a little experiment with re hooking up the tank to pump line and not siphon priming it. The filter housing never fully fills with fuel. Only about half way. Even with the pump running. Is this normal? If I lower the pump and filter below the tank height the filter housing will fill when the pump is off but as soon as you turn the pump on the filter housing goes to half full. Is this normal?

Motor is still running lean because it wants to back fire a little. I am going to focus on getting the 4wire O2 wired in and the OBD connector and park/neutral wire and re evaluate once that's all finished.
Click to expand...
If you use a pump designed for remote mount GM system like the P5000 or P5001, the other one is for TPI. You won't have all these issues...

Mounting instructions say mount as close to tank as possable and no higher than 2 feet above bottom of tank. This pump is perfect to 18 PSI.

Anything before the pump can collapse under suction so hard line or quality hose.

If you plug the return of course the presure goes up. That is usually a problem in installation making the rig to rich.

Steady 13 psi! I don't care what the book or anyone says. Tune pressure up if needed, never down.

HTH
 
mrdrinksalil said:
Well I put in the fram g3 filter before the pump and siphon primed the pump. had over 15 psi. adjusted the regulator down and am running a consistant 13.5-14 psi. I am going to chalk this up to the spectre clear filter. I tried a little experiment with re hooking up the tank to pump line and not siphon priming it. The filter housing never fully fills with fuel. Only about half way. Even with the pump running. Is this normal? If I lower the pump and filter below the tank height the filter housing will fill when the pump is off but as soon as you turn the pump on the filter housing goes to half full. Is this normal?
Click to expand...


I've always preferred the fuel pump in the tank. If I were to use a frame mounted pump, I would have the pump mounted lower than the bottom of the fuel tank bottom.

mrdrinksalil said:
Motor is still running lean because it wants to back fire a little. I am going to focus on getting the 4wire O2 wired in and the OBD connector and park/neutral wire and re evaluate once that's all finished.
Click to expand...

Good plan on the O2 sensor / ALDL connector / park-neutral switch.

dave w
 
I have one of those clear fuel filters on my old ford. It never fully fills with fuel - about half full like you said - and it runs fine, but that is with a mechanical pump and carb.
 
well I let the truck warm up in the driveway and logged data. To me the engine sounds lean. Backfires and what not. It stumbles bad trying to rev it up and will "pop, ping, backfire" however you want to say it.

Well I look at the data and everything says RICH? I am very confused. I could be just a complete moron or the data in oposite of how the engine is running.

Please take a look at my data.

So I pull #1 spk plug. Black as a chimney. I guess I dont know **** about what a lean engine vs rich engine sounds like. :haha:

O2 rich check engine light also came on durring the short data log session.

What do I do now?
 

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  • 20100501_151652_INT.txt
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  • 20100501_151658_O2.txt
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  • 20100501_151703_KNOCK.txt
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mrdrinksalil said:
Please take a look at my data. What do I do now?
Click to expand...

I'm familiar with DataMaster, see pic below. I have not looked close at the data, but it looks like to me the O2 sensor is working. I would be interested in knowing if the engine had reached closed loop? I think from what I could see from the data, the engine was still in open loop?

Being able to use DataMaster is one reason why I upgraded to a '427 PCM on the 87 GMC 1Ton. The winALDL software is a bare bones data logger.

I think placing the Park / Neutral switch wire to ground is a good plan.

dave w

DataMaster 01.jpg
 
the park neutral is hooked up now. it should have have been grounded for that entire data log. I'm not sure how to tell when it gets into open loop or closed loop. I like the software you are using. is it free? I'm guessing it wont work with my 7747 ecm? What parameters does the computer need to get into closed loop?
 
mrdrinksalil said:
the park neutral is hooked up now. it should have have been grounded for that entire data log.
Click to expand...
Ok that's good.

mrdrinksalil said:
I'm not sure how to tell when it gets into open loop or closed loop.
Click to expand...
With the engine warmed up and shut off, connect pins A & B of the ALDL connector. Start the engine, the SES should flash at a 1 Hertz rate (once a second). If the SES light is flashing at a 2 Hertz rate ( twice a second) then the ECM is in Open Loop. It might be a good idea to try connecting pins A & B of ALDL on a cold start to see the difference in SES Hertz rate. I usually only run the engine for a minute or so with pins A & B connected together.

mrdrinksalil said:
I like the software you are using. is it free? I'm guessing it wont work with my 7747 ecm? What parameters does the computer need to get into closed loop?
Click to expand...
DataMaster will not work with the 7747. DataMaster offers a limited use free trial version.

dave w
 
Parameters to enable closed loop, not sure I know them all ... Engine temperature above 30 degrees C is one parameter in the PROM constants table.

dave w
 
it for sure got into closed loop cause the rich/lean flag was going on and off. I'm going to lower the fuel pressure and see what happens
 
How low should the stock FP regulator go? I can only get mine down to 13-13.5psi. Ive taken it apart several times and also ran a different return line into a gas can. that's as low as she'll go.
 
mrdrinksalil said:
How low should the stock FP regulator go? I can only get mine down to 13-13.5psi. Ive taken it apart several times and also ran a different return line into a gas can. that's as low as she'll go.
Click to expand...

I know the option of changing the PROM is not available for you just yet ... but I would lower the Base Pulse Width (BPW) a few numbers if the vehicle was in my hands.

dave w
 
yeah that would totaly help seeing how I can't get the fuel pressure any lower. I'm learning more and more everyday. I know the base pulse width is a parameter the computer needs based on your FP and injector size so it knows how much fuel its sprayin.

I have an orange spring in my FPR which I read something online that the orange springs came in the VAFPR and its about 18inlbs. That could be the reason the FP wont come down but it doesnt explain how an orange spring got in the 87 c10 I got the system out of. It was a bone stock truck.

I'm going to try and get to the junkyard ASAP to get a different spring/FPR. Spare injectors and spare computer. Hopefully all out of the same truck.
 
I think a good plan would be to convert the spare computer you find to the 28 pin flash chip. Here's one I've done recently.

dave w

DSCN2881.JPG

DSCN2882.JPG

DSCN2883.JPG
 
For sure that's the plan. I am planning on ordering the stuff from Moates and a burner but I am hoping to get the rig trail ready without burning a new chip. Money is a bit tight this month with a lot of seasonal and unexpected expenses. Dropping coin on Kerts aluminum dash last week didn't help either.
 
i'm still waiting on it. It's the exact unit that's on the website picture though. Prototype so I dont expect it to be a perfect fit and finish.
 
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