improper break in is likely. also for any flat tappet came engine i use Joe Gibbs break in oil for the first 3000 miles then i use their Hot Rod oil, it has high zinc rating, it says its not for street use..but oh well
CK5
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Catastrophic cam failure... Why?
- Thread starter USSkoval
- Start date
Amsoil seems to be bucking the trend with some of their oils. Check out these specs.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/amo.aspx
They specifically state that it has high zinc load, (whatever that is) and that it is good for flat tappets.
I came across it when I was ordering some more oil for my use.
They had changed the name of the one I wanted and I was looking for it.
I don't sell the stuff, or have any dealings with the company other than using it.
Is it worth it? Who knows? All I can prove, to my satisfaction at any rate, is that it severely reduces friction in a NP205 transfer case.
When I was running top grade 90W, I could feel the heat coming from the floorboard when I was hauling a heavy load. Even after a normal unloaded run, you did not really want to put your hand on the case underneath.
I switched to 90W Amsoil, and it runs cool enough to touch most of the time.
If it helps in the engine, you could not prove it by me, but I use it.
J.
PS, no, I don't run 90W in my engine, you know what I mean<G>
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/amo.aspx
They specifically state that it has high zinc load, (whatever that is) and that it is good for flat tappets.
I came across it when I was ordering some more oil for my use.
They had changed the name of the one I wanted and I was looking for it.
I don't sell the stuff, or have any dealings with the company other than using it.
Is it worth it? Who knows? All I can prove, to my satisfaction at any rate, is that it severely reduces friction in a NP205 transfer case.
When I was running top grade 90W, I could feel the heat coming from the floorboard when I was hauling a heavy load. Even after a normal unloaded run, you did not really want to put your hand on the case underneath.
I switched to 90W Amsoil, and it runs cool enough to touch most of the time.
If it helps in the engine, you could not prove it by me, but I use it.
J.
PS, no, I don't run 90W in my engine, you know what I mean<G>
xCaliK5x
1/2 ton status
I run synthetic in all my cars, always have. I'm currently running full synthetic 5/30 in my 350 TBI. No leaks, nothing. I had a VW GTI that I bought used, swapped it to synthetic in the engine and trans, put 80K miles on it without a hiccup, sold it at 160K and its still running strong. Synthetics are great. I will be swapping my axles to snthetic 90W when I do my diff covers too. I pull engines apart with over 100K for valve cover gaskets (BMW's rubber gaskets turn to a substance as hard as glass, but brittle as bakealite after a few years) that have had oil changes done on synthetic every 5K to 7.5K miles and the insides look like a brand new engine.
As far as the ZINC content, eh. Its hard to say. Older CONVENTIONAL oils aren't what they use to be since Synthetics are now that way of the future, companies are investing more in it. I heard the additive from GM is now really hard to get. The Porsche guys were real big on it and buying it by the case for the old aircooled cars.
I know flattened cams have more to do with the manufactuing and hardening process then anything. There is no shortage of cheap @ss cams in the VW world, and there are really only about 4 companies making watercooled VW cams. One company wants $195, the other is $89..........................
I'm sure GM is 10 fold. Experiance has show us there are companies and brands you buy, and others you don't buy.
As far as the ZINC content, eh. Its hard to say. Older CONVENTIONAL oils aren't what they use to be since Synthetics are now that way of the future, companies are investing more in it. I heard the additive from GM is now really hard to get. The Porsche guys were real big on it and buying it by the case for the old aircooled cars.
I know flattened cams have more to do with the manufactuing and hardening process then anything. There is no shortage of cheap @ss cams in the VW world, and there are really only about 4 companies making watercooled VW cams. One company wants $195, the other is $89..........................
I'm sure GM is 10 fold. Experiance has show us there are companies and brands you buy, and others you don't buy.
To my experience Zinc is the key. Not saying your wrong, but everytime I have seen a flat tappet cam failure it was due to using oils, synthetic or not, that did not have the proper amount of zinc. I used to use Valvolines Racing oils but they lowered the amount of zinc in it recently. once that change was made 5 of the 6 engines i built flattened out the cam lobes on the dyno. I talked to the local drag racing team and they turned me on to the joe gibbs stuff. Ever since I started using Joe Gibbs I have yet to flatten a cam on the dyno nor have I had any customers flatten cams down the road. now i wont warrenty a engine if they use anything else other than joe gibbs. I had a customer with a 496 big block making about 650hp. i broke it in with joe gibbs and did the first two oil changes with it. after that i didnt see him for a while. turns out he put some regular oil in the engine and it ate up his cam. the solution to all this is to run a roller cam...but who wants to pay $500-700 for some lifters?! not many of my customers do.
xCaliK5x
1/2 ton status
Interesting. I wonder if the ZINC additive is compatible with synthetics? The funny thing is you would think you would be safe since they all are held to API standards. My understanding and what I have read is that the latest API rating trumps the older rating. Meaning what was put in our trucks new, the current oils are supposedly better then the old stuff. New supercede's old. However if you find a box of ancient 5/30 conventional from the 70's you shouldn't use it in your 2003 Accord. We ran into an issue when we were drop shipped two pallets of 5/30 synthetic for our new Diesels that was supposed to be a "Diesel only" oil. Looking at the bottle, they have the same approval and category numbers. Its anyones guess.
Here is an interesting PDF.
http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/150916thAdd10308forprint-2.pdf
4by4bygod
1/2 ton status
Oil - my favorite subject..
Sticking with a high zinc race - only oil for break in is key..of course, if you don't have cats to worry about, and can afford 10 + dollars per quart, keep using it afterwards.
As for newer truck and passenger car oils being "better" than previous versions, that's just marketing BS.. the oil manufacturers are told how to formulate their oils, and then it's up to the marketing departments to put a happy face on it. they can't reduce wear, or control acids like they used to.
When discussing oils, it helps to bear several things in mind:
1) Any oil can be marketed as "synthetic", regardless of ingredients. google "castrol lawsuit", and you'll see.
2) All oils are processed petroleum hydrocarbons. conventional oils are just "less processed" than the more "highly processed" synthetic oils.
The actual definition of a synthetic oil used to mean a PAO oil, processed to the point where all of the molecules are the same size. that's where synthetics really shined,as they had better hot & cold flow properties due to this.
Problem is, PAO's are expensive, so they get blended with conventional mineral oil and solvents to bring the cost down.. the more expensive oils have detergents, but the inc / phosphorus additive levels are mandated by law, and have nothing to do with if the oil is marketed as a synthetic or not.
as for a zinc additive being compatible, if you are going to do that, it's better to use a non PAO oil, as they don't hold onto additives very well under heat.. back when mobil one was actually a PAO synthetic, you could scrape the depleted additives out of the oil pan. find a cheap group II mineral oil, and have at it.
If cost is an issue, and emissions equipment isn't just run a diesel oil, and dump it every 3,000 miles.. if you want to go further, then have the oil analyzed.just looking at the shiny parts doesn't really tell the story.
Sticking with a high zinc race - only oil for break in is key..of course, if you don't have cats to worry about, and can afford 10 + dollars per quart, keep using it afterwards.
As for newer truck and passenger car oils being "better" than previous versions, that's just marketing BS.. the oil manufacturers are told how to formulate their oils, and then it's up to the marketing departments to put a happy face on it. they can't reduce wear, or control acids like they used to.
When discussing oils, it helps to bear several things in mind:
1) Any oil can be marketed as "synthetic", regardless of ingredients. google "castrol lawsuit", and you'll see.
2) All oils are processed petroleum hydrocarbons. conventional oils are just "less processed" than the more "highly processed" synthetic oils.
The actual definition of a synthetic oil used to mean a PAO oil, processed to the point where all of the molecules are the same size. that's where synthetics really shined,as they had better hot & cold flow properties due to this.
Problem is, PAO's are expensive, so they get blended with conventional mineral oil and solvents to bring the cost down.. the more expensive oils have detergents, but the inc / phosphorus additive levels are mandated by law, and have nothing to do with if the oil is marketed as a synthetic or not.
as for a zinc additive being compatible, if you are going to do that, it's better to use a non PAO oil, as they don't hold onto additives very well under heat.. back when mobil one was actually a PAO synthetic, you could scrape the depleted additives out of the oil pan. find a cheap group II mineral oil, and have at it.
If cost is an issue, and emissions equipment isn't just run a diesel oil, and dump it every 3,000 miles.. if you want to go further, then have the oil analyzed.just looking at the shiny parts doesn't really tell the story.
xCaliK5x
1/2 ton status
Even more interesting. Without a chemical engineering degree, none of us will know. Its unfortunate you can't trust a well know label that is literally the life blood of your engine.
There are no real laws or regulations in Mexico. Maybe I should swing down and pick up a few case of old school oil!
I'll buy a few! This whole deal with the newer oil sickens me. It's just another plot to get the older vehicles off the road.
