Desert Trip VI: Trip Report starting on page 6

[y5mgisi]

Good deal! Bet those 8 days flew by.

 

[Larry]

sweet. will that be in this thread or in a new thread ?

I was kinda of thinking of just continuing on with this thread. What do you all think?

 

[Smokinthehippies]

do that, but just rename it from preperation to conclusion or some such thing.

 

[y5mgisi]

X2. Keep it in this one.

 

[Larry]

10-4. Will keep this one.

 

[pblaze725]

Cool, I won't need to go find it.

 

[mosesburb]

Other than that the only other odd thing that happened was the rear axle overheated on me twice. I could feel the truck lugging hard like it was pulling a hard load so I stopped to take a look underneath and my nose and eyes discovered gear oil pushing out of the vent tube while oil was getting baked on the exhaust. This was on the main paved road in Death Valley as we were headed to the Race Track trail head. It happened again a few days later as we were crawling out of Death Valley headed to Beatty, NV on the highway. Oddly, when I checked the fluid level it was fine but then again, I do over fill these a bit by tilting the axle when I fill them up. The plan is to find a larger rear cover then move to synthetic oil. I’ve never had a rear axle overheat on me ever before in any vehicle....Very odd feeling. The steep 8% grades with elevations going from -200 ft. to 7,000 ft. within an hour probably also contributed to the oil getting pushed out. Still odd how it noticeably loaded the engine like dragging sled.

Man, I think you're reaching with your explanations. You know as well as I do you were doing nothing that should have caused this issue. I have seen (as I'm sure you have too) 14FF's overloaded daily that kept coming back for more day after day (the C30 tow trucks that hauled cars into the shop on a daily basis, the masonry contractor that hauled two cube of block daily, etc). This is very perplexing to me. Why the drag on the motor?? I know it's not a powerful, fuel efficient, torque laden diesel, but that is something that really bothers me. It's not hot outside yet. We dealt with MUCH higer temps last summer and nary a peep out of that thing (or mine and we scale out pretty close in total weight). That, and, you are not even close to over-working that thing. Me thinks this thing is letting you know something is amiss. I'm all for a diff cover. I think they are cheap insurance over a peeled (or poked) cover. Not a repair you want to make where we go. Synthetic lube?? I really don't think it should be necessary, but then again oil is cheaper than metal parts. I think if it was mine I'd take a backlash reading and then pull the pinion support and shafts to do a full bearing inspection. If nothing else, it will give some peace of mind that a gremlin is not lurking in there ready to spoil the next outing.

Glad everything went well for you on the trip. Now, to quote you from my threads, "Wheres the pics already??"

 

[y5mgisi]

I know it's not a powerful, fuel efficient, torque laden diesel

You guys are funny.

 

[Larry]

Man, I think you're reaching with your explanations. You know as well as I do you were doing nothing that should have caused this issue. I have seen (as I'm sure you have too) 14FF's overloaded daily that kept coming back for more day after day (the C30 tow trucks that hauled cars into the shop on a daily basis, the masonry contractor that hauled two cube of block daily, etc). This is very perplexing to me. Why the drag on the motor?? I know it's not a powerful, fuel efficient, torque laden diesel, but that is something that really bothers me. It's not hot outside yet. We dealt with MUCH higer temps last summer and nary a peep out of that thing (or mine and we scale out pretty close in total weight). That, and, you are not even close to over-working that thing. Me thinks this thing is letting you know something is amiss. I'm all for a diff cover. I think they are cheap insurance over a peeled (or poked) cover. Not a repair you want to make where we go. Synthetic lube?? I really don't think it should be necessary, but then again oil is cheaper than metal parts. I think if it was mine I'd take a backlash reading and then pull the pinion support and shafts to do a full bearing inspection. If nothing else, it will give some peace of mind that a gremlin is not lurking in there ready to spoil the next outing.

Glad everything went well for you on the trip. Now, to quote you from my threads, "Wheres the pics already??"

I don’t know what to tell you genius other than what occurred a couple times with the rear axle is the same type customer complaint we get from RV customers that overheat their rear axles pulling long steep grades. In fact, our Durastar truck even comes with a rear axle temperature gauge.

When mine started to showing signs it was getting hot we were climbing 8 – 9% grades on the way up to Scotty’s Castle on a paved road. The speed limit on that road is 35 MPH. The next time it happened we were on another 8+% grade climbing out of Death Valley on the highway that had a 45 MPH speed limit. Both times I was cruising at or slightly above speed limit. Also on the two occasions this happened the axle burped out enough fluid to start smoking on the exhaust. The noticeable load on the truck was odd and felt like I was towing a Cummins powered Suburban with a blown oil cooler. After the axle cooled off for about an hour it was fine.

Albeit, the ambient temperature wasn’t really hot in Death Valley (80’s) the grades were steep and extremely long. We’re talking 20-30 miles straight up hill. Imagine driving from 200 ft. below sea level to 6,000 ft. within an hour or so. That is a lot of load on a vehicle. You’re correct, this thing has seen a lot hotter temps climbing around Utah on several Julys in 115 degree temps but in Utah we are crawling along at snail’s pace on the trail, not going 35 MPH straight up hill like in Death Valley. On the 1,300 mile journey back home the rear axle worked just like it always had. No noises, vibrations, etc. I cruised 80-85 MPH all the way home once I hit I-25. I am anxious to get the cover, pop the pinion out and rear hubs off to see if there is anything funky going on in there. Very odd deal indeed.

The 205 POS transfercase is another story. That turd is coming out again and getting chucked in the iron pile and replaced with the one I pilfered out of my dad’s old wrecker. Tired of the noise! Something is not right with the 205 in my truck now. It sounds like it is coming apart at highway speeds when driving down hill with a slight tip in of the throttle. At full coast it is fine, at full throttle it is fine, at cruise it is fine.....but roll down an incline where just a blip of the throttle is needed, it sounds like it is about to blow. Me think the idler gear is bouncing around inside the case.

The pictures and Youtubers are almost all loaded but until then there is this to look at. Story time start tomorrow

 

[black dawg]

Are you sure that this noise isnt coming from the rear diff?

 

[Larry]

Are you sure that this noise isnt coming from the rear diff?

I figured that was coming, but from Mosesburb. Yes, I am sure it is not coming from the diff. I've been chasing this tcase noise/vibration for 3 years every since I picked up this Craigslist 205 to stick behind the NV4500.

 

[mosesburb]

I don’t know what to tell you genius other than what occurred a couple times with the rear axle is the same type customer complaint we get from RV customers that overheat their rear axles pulling long steep grades. In fact, our Durastar truck even comes with a rear axle temperature gauge.

Just out of curiosity, do they experience the excessive drag too?? If it was just the vomiting of lube, it might not concern me as much as the excessive drag that accompanied it.

What do those trucks with the diff gauge run temp-wise?? I know when I installed the temp gauge on my NV4500 I was quite surprised at how hot it would get pulling long hills repeatedly (and how long it would take to cool off while moving), but that was on a hot day. On a cool day, the temp gauge will barely move regardless what I do to it.

On the 1,300 mile journey back home the rear axle worked just like it always had. No noises, vibrations, etc. I cruised 80-85 MPH all the way home once I hit I-25. I am anxious to get the cover, pop the pinion out and rear hubs off to see if there is anything funky going on in there. Very odd deal indeed.

Kinda freaky.

The 205 POS transfercase is another story. That turd is coming out again and getting chucked in the iron pile and replaced with the one I pilfered out of my dad’s old wrecker. Tired of the noise! Something is not right with the 205 in my truck now. It sounds like it is coming apart at highway speeds when driving down hill with a slight tip in of the throttle. At full coast it is fine, at full throttle it is fine, at cruise it is fine.....but roll down an incline where just a blip of the throttle is needed, it sounds like it is about to blow. Me think the idler gear is bouncing around inside the case.

I have a fresh 205 here if it is of any use to you. 32spl short input, fig 8 pattern.

 

[kellyjohn]

I agree with pblaze725!!

Cool, I won't need to go find it.

Nice to be able to follow your adventure Larry!

Thanks for making it available here, for us to check out.

Looking forward to the update!!!!!

 

[Larry]

Just out of curiosity, do they experience the excessive drag too?? If it was just the vomiting of lube, it might not concern me as much as the excessive drag that accompanied it.

What do those trucks with the diff gauge run temp-wise?? I know when I installed the temp gauge on my NV4500 I was quite surprised at how hot it would get pulling long hills repeatedly (and how long it would take to cool off while moving), but that was on a hot day. On a cool day, the temp gauge will barely move regardless what I do to it.

Yes, drag and oil purge are telltale signs of overheat as it is occurring.

Although not 10.5” Corp 14 bolt specific, below is some info I pulled out of an International ArvinMeritor service manual this morning. Engineering wise, a 14 bolt shouldn’t be much different. The manual says anything over 250 degrees is considered operating above safe temperatures.

From ArvinMeritor Service Manual....

How Overheating Can Occur:

1) Lubricant is added over the assembly’s fill line during maintenance procedures.

(this could be part of my problem as I conscientiously overfilled it by tilting the axle during filling...hmmm, maybe that wasn't a good idea after all )


2) The engine rating or torque rating was increased from the vehicle’s original specification.
(yes, and maybe why GM used the 11.5" axle in the GMT800 trucks with L18's)

3) Air flow is restricted, which decreases ventilation through the system.

4) A vehicle’s operated with incorrect driveline angles or mismatched tires.
(driveline angle issue possible = ORD flip kit)

5) A vehicle’s operated with a low lubricant level or the incorrect lubricant.
(incorrect, or cheap lube could also be my issue. I used Napa house brand gear oil)


Overheat symptoms: Lube Purge, Noise, Stalling (by stalling, I assume they mean drag), and Lock-Up

I have a fresh 205 here if it is of any use to you. 32spl short input, fig 8 pattern.

Hmmm, might have to keep that in mind. The other 205 I have has been in the family since that truck was new. I feel comfortable with the history that truck lived although I need to do some research to see what it takes to convert a 10 spline 205 to a 27 spline. A 32 spline would be better but the AA kit I used for the NV4500 swap requires a 27 spline.

 

[mosesburb]

Swap the input is all you have to do. Both use the same small bore case.

 

[Larry]

Swap the input is all you have to do. Both use the same small bore case.

Good to know! Thanks




Alas, pictures and videos are almost loaded and time to start telling the story.

Day 1: Saturday, March 23nd – Getting there
Goal: Pueblo, CO to Kingman, AZ - 827 Miles

Originally we planned to roll out of Pueblo around 5:30 AM to meet my friend, Bill, on the Southside of town. With his cancellation we decided to leave a bit later. We also knew there was a winter storm brewing but Pueblo County on South to the New Mexico border was supposed to be spared until later in the day on that Saturday. Uh! WRONG! As it turned out it started snowing at my house around 5 AM. It wasn’t a major snow, just enough to make the roads slicker than hell plus the wind made it an almost complete whiteout at times. From home to the New Mexico side of Raton Pass we were only able to roll at 35 to 40 MPH most of the time. Once headed down the New Mexico side of Raton Pass the roads were dry, the sun was out, warmth filled the cab with sunshine blasting through the windows, birds were chirping, etc. Life was good so we thought.

Well that good travel weather only lasted for about 40 miles until we hit Springer, NM. For the next 325 miles From Springer all the way to Gallup, NM was like driving in hurricane force winds. The few Semi’s that were actually on the road were driving way below speed limit with their hazards on, many semi’s and high profile vehicles were pulled off on the side of the road. There was so much dust and dirt in the air visibility was just as bad as the whiteout snow storm we had just left in Colorado. Incidentally we heard they closed I-25 South near Trinidad after we passed through. Lucky for us!

From Gallup to Flagstaff the wind subsided enough to bring the speed up into the 80-87 MPH range until just outside of Flagstaff where I-40 turns into a total piece of crap. I-40 from there onto CA is junk! If there is any reason at all AZ Gov. Jan Brewer should learn to get along with the feds, it would be for the sake of getting their Interstates fixed.

We were losing daylight fast so I wanted to hit up a car wash in Flagstaff to clean off the road deicer crap we got in CO before we got into Kingman plus I thought the road deicer was wreaking havoc on the dual tank switch valve. Ah, man….I played hell finding a coin car wash in Flag. I finally found the world’s worst car wash next to a Sonic someplace in Flag. This poor excuse of a car wash didn’t even have a bill exchanger so I had to go to Sonic to get change. Of course, the kids at Sonic said their manager won’t allow them to give change because people come over there from the car wash all the time for change. I told him we were coming over for dinner once I was done, and basically begged for quarters like some crack whore. He gave in and hesitantly exchanged a few dollars for me. Then the car wash itself sucked. I could pee harder than the water pressure then the scrub brush broke as I was using it. What a joke! At least I got the deicer poop off. For those that may live in Flag probably now which exact car wash this is. After that time waster we made it into Kingman around 9ish and crashed at the Hampton Inn.

Trip Summary

100 miles of this caca was no way to start a vacation

First coffee return break near Trinidad, CO

Making good time between Gallup, NM and Flagstaff, AZ. The old pig actually flies down the interstate quite nicely.

Somewhere between Flagstaff and Kingman on I-40

Next up…. Starting the Mojave Rd trail

 

[Smokinthehippies]

ooooh hurry hurry cant wait.

 

[y5mgisi]

Me neither!

 

[Larry]

Day 2: Sunday, March 24th – Mojave Rd
Goal: Enjoy the Mojave Rd for 2 nights and 3 days


I forgot to mention in the last post that as we approached Kingman I received a text from one of my buddy’s driving up from Camarillo, CA that was supposed to meet us the next day in Bullhead City where he was sick and wouldn’t be able to make for the Mojave Rd portion of the trip but hoped to meet us in Baker, CA on the way to Death Valley a few days later. With that, only 2 of the original 6 vehicles that confirmed to make this weeklong journey only made it.

After checking out of the hotel in Kingman we rolled into Bullhead City where we met up with my high school buddy, Ty, in a 2005 Cummins powered Dodge Ram in the Wal-Mart parking lot. Ty drove up from San Diego the night before and his brother actually few into met him in San Diego from New York City to play in the desert with us for the week. The Mojave and Death Valley are going to be quite the change for dude that has lived in New York City for the past 12 years! No Starbucks out here mister! While we were grabbing last minute things at Wal-Mart I rewired the fuel gauge circuit from the switch valve to the connector near the starter. The old circuit had a sketchy looking spice that I suspected road deicer got into causing resistance issues resulting in the gauge problems.

In the end that turned out to be a waste of time to make this repair as I later discovered the 6.5L diesel lift pump that I was using as a fuel transfer pump was allowing fuel to move from the Aux RH tank to the Main LH tank all by itself. At the end of the day, I never had a fuel gauge problem at all….just fuel levels moving on their own. Now that I am home, I plan to ditch the center mount transfer pump all together and add a TBI tank, sending unit and pump on the RH side to use as a transfer pump. People are probably wondering why I use a transfer pump in the first place, but with the 8.1L the return line is too large (3/8) for the fuel tank switch valve (5/16) where the valve restricts the fuel as it returns though the valve causing the head pressure to run around 100 psi. Pollock doesn't make a switch valve for 3/8 return lines. Little LS engines with the small return line do not have that issue. The big block L18 is a different animal with a huge return line.

So now with us topped off with supplies and fuel we were at the Mojave Rd trailhead right at the Colorado River on the Ft. Mojave Indian reservation. This is where the original Mojave trail the Indians used hundreds of years ago to haul goods back and forth from the Colorado River to the Pacific Ocean. That is a long haul just to trade some corn for sea shells!

Bon voyage! The Colorado River marks the beginning of the Mojave Rd

This trips adventure mascot was looking pretty happy to finally be on the trail

About an hour to hour and a half the trail finally crosses from NV to CA. No California welcoming center out here. AZ, NV and CA are all very close together in this part of the desert.

I felt like a Mexican coyote smuggling the yellow rubber ducky into California through the back door . Also the first time my truck has been to CA that I know of.

Some neat old buildings scattered about. This was probably on old mining camp

Fort Piute 24 miles into the Mojave Rd

Neat Barrel Cactus along the way

See that road wayyy out there on the horizon. That is the road we’ve been following and will follow for the next couple days.

Fort Piute

The ruins of Fort Piute. The park service has done some rebuilding to bring it back to look like somewhat of ruins. The lady in the orange is my mother-in-law and copilot. Odd to bring a MIL but FIL and my wife are not into the outdoors stuff but she is. She is a good camp chef and spotter too. She never complained once all week. Quite the trooper!

Check out all of these barrel cactus. They were all concentrated in this one area.

Camp site 1 on the Mojave Rd. This night I felt a cold or something coming on as I could not get warm. More on that debacle later. At this point we are about 25 miles into the Mojave Rd with around 115 miles yet to go.

What kind of friend would place a rubber snake in your tent? ME! It was funnier than hell when he unzipped the bed tent! He jumped back about 10 feet in the air.

Trying out my buddies tripod

This spot in the Mojave doesn’t look much different from where I live in Colorado

The Fort Piute ruins in the pictures above are just on the other side of that hill

Little Elvis was impressed with the campsite

More later….

 

[496truck]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeet.