Do-it-all rear suspension?

[stan1688]

I'm building my crew cab to be a cheap(ish) do-it-all truck. Everything from daily driving, to wheeling, to some towing (I know, it won't be great at any of those things, but it's my only truck so why not?). Reliability is also very important since I'll drive it everywhere.

I had originally planned on custom leaf springs front and rear, but after reading Adam's thread (and a few others), for almost the same price, I can link the rear and have a much more controlling suspension and a better ride. But that's where the do-all theme raises issues. I'd like the rear to match the front in ride quality since it will be driven more on road than off and in flex.

I'd rather not run coilovers due the price. Also, I'm confident airbags will need to be in the equasion for the occasion tow, and I'm okay with that.


The way I see it, these are the options I would pursue:

4-link with coil springs and airbags
4-link with just airbags
Custom leaf springs with anti-wrap bar and airbags
Stock-type leaf springs, shackle flip, anti-wrap bar and airbags


Realistically, what are my options? What would you guys with more experience suggest?

If it matters, I'd like my lift height to be around 6" (1" body lift is planned). Thanks in advance.

 

[munepit]

I think I have seen a 4 link with just air bags before. That would be cool!

 

[Kay86K5]

I would think if you are going to stay with leafs, that you wouldn't really need the airbag set up (obviously depending on what leafs you decide to run). But if you were going custome leafs, you could probably get ORD to build you some that could tow well and still have good flex without having to deal with airbags.

 

[NorCal_Chris]

I thought (and many others did too) that my leaf setup flexed awesome, and rode great. Now that I've done the 4 link in the back it completley blows the leafs out of the water in every way.

Drives way better and smoother on road, soaks up bumps better off road. Predictable and stable also.
I am runing coil springs and bilsteins.

You can build a setup fairly inexpensive if you build it yourself. Run poly bushings frame side, 1.25 heims axle side.

And I would add bags for heavy loads or towing.

 

[stan1688]

I think I have seen a 4 link with just air bags before. That would be cool!

Yep, I've seen it, too. My only concern is the reliability of just bags. I know some have internal bumps, so I could always make it home on them if something happened to one or both of the bags. I also don't know much about controlling them (ride height and such).

I would think if you are going to stay with leafs, that you wouldn't really need the airbag set up (obviously depending on what leafs you decide to run). But if you were going custome leafs, you could probably get ORD to build you some that could tow well and still have good flex without having to deal with airbags.

I thought that, too, but I'm sure there would be some compromises doing that. Maybe Chris will see this and chime in...

If I did run leafs, I would run a softer set for the better ride quality, which is why I would run bags.

I thought (and many others did too) that my leaf setup flexed awesome, and rode great. Now that I've done the 4 link in the back it completley blows the leafs out of the water in every way.

Drives way better and smoother on road, soaks up bumps better off road. Predictable and stable also.
I am runing coil springs and bilsteins.

You can build a setup fairly inexpensive if you build it yourself. Run poly bushings frame side, 1.25 heims axle side.

And I would add bags for heavy loads or towing.

It's comments like these that have me leaning towards links. I would rather build this truck right the first time, even if it's in phases, and links just seem like the right thing.




Thanks for the comments, everyone. Keep them coming!

 

[blazinzuk]

About the only advantage to leafs is cheapness. That kind of goes out the window she you start talking custom stuff. I guess easy install and stability also.

Link it with airbags. Its what I am gonna do. I plan on using old cement truck airbags. I am not worried at all about toughness. I have seen coil and leaf springs break. Then it forces you to do onboard air. Very nice to have. Plus you can add things as you go like load levelers. No more jack in up trailers just dump the bags. Thats what I would do links with bags

 

[stan1688]

Thanks for your post, Eric.

Truth be told, this was the direction I was hoping to go toward. I was planning to run on-board air anyway (an Oasis-type setup would be nice!), so it makes even more sense.

Do you know any of the specifics of how you want to set up yours? Dual triangulated, single triangulated or parallel? Mount the bags on the axle or on a link? Gonna run a sway bar?

 

[blazinzuk]

I have actually done this twice. I planned on a swaybar for the rear. Just gonna hit the junkyard and find one that works. From previous experience it doesn't need to be huge but it helps.

I plan on mounting the bags just in front of the axle. Partially on the axle. But gonna incorporate the lower link bracket with the bag mount.

In my mind a double triangulated see up would be best. Because if ya lose a link for whatever reason the others will locate the axle hopefully long enough to get off the road safely.

My ideas revolve around daily driver comfortable and ability to deal with alot of different loads. Reliability and comfort. Off road capability is in about 4th place but it will have plenty of that too

 

[stan1688]

My ideas revolve around daily driver comfortable and ability to deal with alot of different loads. Reliability and comfort. Off road capability is in about 4th place but it will have plenty of that too

That paragraph sums up exactly what I want.

Did you/will you run poly bushings at the frame and heims/Johnny joints at the axle?

 

[blazinzuk]

That paragraph sums up exactly what I want.

Did you/will you run poly bushings at the frame and heims/Johnny joints at the axle?

Ran bushings everywhere. I plan on doing the same initially but welding on some threaded rod. The bushings will then be easily replaced with some sort of cartridge joint. As I can afford it they will be replaced but in my application I think ,wait I know the bushings will last a while

 

[sreidmx]

WHats your price range? you can get your cake and eat it too with the custom leaf setup and be more reliable than links.. plus you can do this with a stock length leaf pack. You really need to assess what you are towing. how often and how much weight. What do you expect from the truck? Deaver makes a spring that can have an extra overload pack that doesn't affect the first 3/4 of travel until it sinks enough to touch the pack. Or run airbags.. I don't know that I would build a link setup just to run bushings and limit the flex all over again.. you could run a parallel 5 link and get away with that but not on a triangulated link your bushings wouldn't last very long.. to much side load.

 

[skunked]

Ian on Xtreme Offroad built a pretty slick 4 link bag setup for their Izuzu crawler hauler.

here is the episode
http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/XO2014-10/crawler-hauler-4-link-airbags

 

[stan1688]

WHats your price range? you can get your cake and eat it too with the custom leaf setup and be more reliable than links.. plus you can do this with a stock length leaf pack. You really need to assess what you are towing. how often and how much weight. What do you expect from the truck? Deaver makes a spring that can have an extra overload pack that doesn't affect the first 3/4 of travel until it sinks enough to touch the pack. Or run airbags.. I don't know that I would build a link setup just to run bushings and limit the flex all over again.. you could run a parallel 5 link and get away with that but not on a triangulated link your bushings wouldn't last very long.. to much side load.

Well, I know custom springs from ORD are something like $700 after shipping, plus I would have materials for a traction bar. I guess my goal is to be as far under $1000 as I can get.

The priority of whatever setup is ride comfort. This will be my daily driver and will be driven to and from wheeling spots, so some decent highway time, too.

I plan on having a pretty short, and probably narrow bed, so there won't be a lot of stuff I can haul in it. This is why I planned on towing. Anytime I need a full size bed, I hook on to a truck bed trailer or utility trailer. I don't haul that much so it might be 4 or 5 times a year. There's a chance I could pull a loaded car trailer, though. Additionally, I would like to get a camper to pull behind it to wheeling spots. Lastly, I plan to have a set of gin poles for it to do any heavy lifting around the house or help recover broken vehicles while wheeling.

I'll probably pm Chris from ORD to chime in on the subject on custom leafs.

If I were to do links, I doubt I would run poly bushings on both ends. Probably just on the frame side. I still need to do more research on that subject.

Could you elaborate on how custom leafs would be more reliable that links?

Ian on Xtreme Offroad built a pretty slick 4 link bag setup for their Izuzu crawler hauler.

here is the episode
http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/XO2014-10/crawler-hauler-4-link-airbags

Yep, that was one of the examples I had in mind. That thing is pretty cool.

 

[sreidmx]

Yep 700$ not bad considering what you are aiming to do, personally I'd stick with leafs.. You can easily get 16-18 inches of vertical travel and all the things you are asking it to do are no prob.
Leafs are more reliable because they are simpler, you get a military wrapped spring from alcan and usually they will have a torque leaf to prevent axle wrap basically a half leaf. Add into it that it's very hard to break all the springs in the pack and they are double shear 9/16 bolts mainly there is just more to prevent it from disconnecting from the truck if there was a catastrophic failure vs a link setup where one like goes and you are screwed. Now a link setup will get you better road manners if built properly, you will have better control of the wheels with links ,ie squat roll center, etc..

 

[blazinzuk]

If a link suspension is built properly it will be dead reliable. Simplicity does not always equate to reliability.

I do think you would be happy with custom leaves. Shoot I just put stock 63" chevy leafs on a 69 f- 100 and he loves em. Custom is that much more better. Best to look into all possibilities. Your gonna have that suspension for a while.

Of course you could always link it with leaf springs

 

[dhcomp]

This thread reminds me of the triangulated 4 link that Jason ran, RIP.

Look up willyswanter's build thread.

Trianguled 4 link with bags.

Searched for it, all the pics are gone.

Anyone have the design saved? What happened to his truck?

It was a VERY well designed setup, like all that he did.

 

[blazinzuk]

This is one I did. He spent about 450 to get it done I would use bigger tube for the links but it works well





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[Hogback Fabrication]

If you want a combination of soft/flexy springs and being able to tow, you're in for airbags regardless of whether you go with leaves or coils.

Our custom springs are a great option for a lot of people and we do a lot of them, they bolt in and they work great. Between our custom springs, airbags, and a traction bar you'll be well over $1K.

Having said that, a well setup link system is always better than leaves. But budget in a 4 link and reliability don't completely go together. Using bushings at each end is cheap, but they aren't reliable under a crewcab. And junkyard coil springs might ride ok but they won't have the travel you're looking for and they aren't durable if you try to get the flex out of them.

One big thing I haven't seen you mention is shocks. Cheap shocks with soft springs doesn't work well at all.

I did a fairly budget 4 link on my Blazer many years ago (I think that thread is still on this site), the 4 link is still the same and works great. The spring/shock system I had was terrible, it didn't work well and it wasn't reliable. It did great in the rocks but it didn't work for anything else, really.

The solution is just what you don't want to hear: coilovers.

 

[sreidmx]

Told you guys... geese..

 

[stan1688]

This thread reminds me of the triangulated 4 link that Jason ran, RIP.

Look up willyswanter's build thread.

Trianguled 4 link with bags.

Searched for it, all the pics are gone.

Anyone have the design saved? What happened to his truck?

It was a VERY well designed setup, like all that he did.

Every pic I can find of this truck on the net shows coilovers. Hopefully someone has a pic stashed away of his setup with bags.

This is one I did. He spent about 450 to get it done I would use bigger tube for the links but it works well

Thanks for posting pics. It really helps to show just how much space those bags take up.

If you want a combination of soft/flexy springs and being able to tow, you're in for airbags regardless of whether you go with leaves or coils.

Our custom springs are a great option for a lot of people and we do a lot of them, they bolt in and they work great. Between our custom springs, airbags, and a traction bar you'll be well over $1K.

Having said that, a well setup link system is always better than leaves. But budget in a 4 link and reliability don't completely go together. Using bushings at each end is cheap, but they aren't reliable under a crewcab. And junkyard coil springs might ride ok but they won't have the travel you're looking for and they aren't durable if you try to get the flex out of them.

One big thing I haven't seen you mention is shocks. Cheap shocks with soft springs doesn't work well at all.

I did a fairly budget 4 link on my Blazer many years ago (I think that thread is still on this site), the 4 link is still the same and works great. The spring/shock system I had was terrible, it didn't work well and it wasn't reliable. It did great in the rocks but it didn't work for anything else, really.

The solution is just what you don't want to hear: coilovers.

I figured airbags would need to be in the equation somewhere, and I'm okay with that.

As I mentioned, I would only run bushings at the frame end.

You're right about the shocks. I thought about it earlier in the thread, but didn't mention it. I plan to run good shocks regardless of which setup I run. I guess that's why I didn't mention them.

Thanks for your input, Chris.

Told you guys... geese..

No one was arguing. I just asked about reliability of leafs for clarification purposes. I appreciate your input, as well.







Price is a fairly large factor for me. I've pretty much ruled out coils, so it's down to links and bags or custom leafs.

We've already mentioned the prices associated with custom leafs:
-Custom leafs from ORD ~ $700 shipped
-Antiwrap bar ~ $150?
-Airbags ~ $300?
-Associated items to run bags (OBA excluded since it's already planned) ~ $100?
--Total ~ $1250


Airbags and Links:
-Say I ran all (8) forged 1.25" Johnny Joints with inserts and jam nuts~ $480?
-Link material ~ $150?
-Tabs & brackets ~ $150?
-Axle truss ~ $250?
-Airbags ~ $300?
-Associated items to run bags (OBA excluded since it's already planned) ~ $100?
--Total ~ $1430




I just did some quick research and guessed on most of those prices. Would anyone change anything?

If I went with links and bags, I would already have the links in place if I ever wanted coilovers...