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Do we have a Painless Wiring Vendor? *turning into wiring tech*

Avery4jc

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I need to order this but I'd rather give my money to a ck5'er...

http://painlesswiring.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/43905/70207

70207.jpg
 
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Not what you asked, but damn, $70??

What exactly are you trying to do? I bought an almost identical fuse "block" (mine holds either 5 or 6 fuses, not sure exactly, but more than 4) for all of $5 back when I installed my TPI and needed to fuse all my ignition/batt feeds.

Just an idea. If it's for the '85, you can do it a heck of a lot cheaper since your fuse panel is "good" for this sort of thing.
 
yeah, but for $70 you get a new cover. :D dyeager is right, $70 is a lot for what you're getting. What are you trying to accomplish with the new setup?
 
I have the same one, or atleast looks the same. I have the waterproof one that has 3-4 keyed on and 3 always hot. Something to think about, I wish I had got the one that is 7 circuits Key On. I dont need the constant hot ones, if I needed something constant hot I could tie into factory, etc. I jus dont like having alot of stuff constant on to risk killing batt. I had an electrical draw one time that was killing my batt. over 2 week period. Long story short it was my AutoMeter TACH that was sucking my batt. I had it on a constant on, figured it wouldnt draw any juice jus sitting there. I moved it over to a keyed on circuit. The only constant on I have is my CB and rear underneith lites. Anyways, .02
 
What am I trying to accomplish?

Well I have front aux. lighting that needs 12v switched power for the relay...
I have rear aux. lighting that needs a 12v switched for the relay...
12v switched for my amp that powers my subs for the stereo...
12v switched for the tach...
12v switched for the CB
and I'd like to have extra room for future power needs...

Right now all that is being piggy-backed off of one of the switched tabs on the factory fuse pannel and it looks like I was drunk when I wired it b/c there are so many wires going to one spot...plus it just isn't a good idea to pull that much from it...

Yeah badmix I have multiple kits bookmarked and I'll probably get the 7 circuit switched pannel...

Its really not that big of a deal... you guys wouldn't spend $70 (at least that was their listed price) for a Painless Wiring fuse pannel? It'd take care of all my power needs and I know its good quality. Seems worth it to me.
 
Not worth even close to $70. I've wired up my stuff, and although I'm one that WILL pay for something if it will take me more time or effort to do as good or worse of a job, this isn't a $70 job.

It looks to me like they put a relay on there to handle the ignition switching with a single wire. Running one wire or 5, no more work except adding the additional taps.

Get taps out of the wrecking yard for your fuse panel (likely for free, with lots of spare wire), buy those small accessory panels for $5-10 online, run the wires, and you are done.

To be honest, judging by that picture, it looks to me like they are trying to convince you that it's worth $70 by hiding all the bare wires hanging out under the fancy cover. Which, with that many wires and only 8 fuses, makes me wonder what the heck is going on behind those fuse panels? If they are using a relay to simplify the power distribution to the panels, then you should have 8 wires going to whatever devices, plus one wire for the ignition 12V, and one wire for constant batt. Thats 10 wires. Looks like about double that in the picture. Maybe they do something clever, but I can't think what, and they don't say.

My accessory panel is pretty simple: one wire on one side of the fuse supplies power to the fuse, the other wire goes to the device being powered. 5 fuses, 10 wires. Besides, *I* get to determine how many fuses are constant or switched 12V, and can change them any time I need to.

If you can find those accessory panels online, you'll see that they are just cheap Chinese pieces that don't cost more than $10. Those are the kind that lock together, I can tell that much. So they just took two cheapies and locked them together, added some wires, a relay, and a junction block (I think that's what that is) and charge you $70. This would probably make sense on a glass or early blade fuse panel that you didn't want to hack the wiring up a lot, but not on one like the '85+ with all the extra terminals already there.

Here is exactly what I have: http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/308 But of course I got mine from the US. That works out to probably $5/6 US. Here's an 8 fuse holder http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/311 As long as they don't use a common feed strip (most you will see have one wire input, meaning all circuits are powered at the same time as the feed wire) it will work. American source: http://www.britishwiring.com/CAT20_21.PDF Cheaper can be found, still looking. :)

Another source: http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?groupId=615&subgroupId=11&search=false&page=2 I don't like that style, anything sticking out like that is apt to be broken off. You would want the style that sits up off the surface it's mounted on, with the wires exiting underneath IMO.

Not sure if these pics/links work, but http://stores.ebay.com/AutoReWire_Fuse-Panels-Relays-and-Kits_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQsclZ1QQtZkmNot

3rd one down, and reasonable: http://www.wiringproducts.com/index1.html
 
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Yeah I'm going to go with the you could build that for about $20 idea also. I have and its rather easy and mine were the old glass fuse ones.
 
My accessory panel is pretty simple: one wire on one side of the fuse supplies power to the fuse, the other wire goes to the device being powered. 5 fuses, 10 wires. Besides, *I* get to determine how many fuses are constant or switched 12V, and can change them any time I need to.

Ok Dorian that was a great write-up but I'm still confused with the idea you are using... So one blade of the fuse has power coming in and the other blade has power going to the device... so basically just a simple in-line fuse in the power wire for the device...

But I'm trying to get away from pulling all my power through that one ignition switched tab on my factory fuse panel, thats why I liked the idea of using a relay. So the relay is controlled by the one slot in the factory fuse panel and the relay is what handles all of power coming straight from the battery to the fuse panel...

So in your case say you want 5 switched and 2 constant...
The two constant would just pull power from the batt. or wherever there is a constant 12v hot wire... but the other 5 would have to be distributed from that one spot on the factory fuse panel. Am I understanding this correctly?
 
If this is your '85, don't you have a whole bunch of terminals along the top?

Now I guess it depends on the load you will be running through it (no idea what it all adds up to) but I believe those taps on the panel are rated for 30 amps.

You could do your own relay as well if you wanted to go that route, those are dirt cheap/free from the wrecking yard. With something like that, you could run fuse boxes in different locations to shorten the run of large gauge wiring, like in cab and engine bay, etc.

That's your only real concern as I see it, that you aren't drawing too much for the wires you want to use. Power windows, door locks, and I believe power rear window were all pulled from those terminals on the panel, that's a fair amount of load if they are all used at the same time.
 
Yeah I'm not pulling too much normally but there are times where I have the front lights, stereo (always on :)), CB and tach (also always on) going and although I doubt they're pulling very much (none of these are the "main" power wires, just switched power for internal relays)...

I know there are a couple along the top but I think they're all constant hot aren't they? (As you can tell I've been away from my truck for months now :()

I'm thinking I might build my own setup like you guys suggested... get a big relay and a fuse panel. Draw from the factory fuse panel to turn the relay on and off which would power the aux. fuse panel. Its ok if they're all switched b/c as of now I don't need constant hot for where I'm talking about (all my constant hot is hardwired to the batt.)

Ok I'm going to do some searching and I'll post back with some links to what I decide to get...
 
Does he use a "relay disable switch" (the one in-line between the factory switched power prong and the relay) to kill the power to the relay to keep it from draining the battery? Do relays draw power just sitting there?
He has a relay bypass which I guess makes sense if you needed to bypass the relay all-together and get power to your accessories but I just didn't understand the need for the relay disable switch...

relay.gif


http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/amc/relay.htm
 
The in-line fuse idea is going to be there regardless of relay use. Anything running power needs a fuse. By doing it yourself you can run 12V switched to all the relays you want, relays don't use much current. Off of the relay's you can run larger wire to feed your gear. It also helps minimize large gauge wire runs. Place the relay's close to what you're powering. Then you run power from the fuse block (switched) to the relay, power from a constant hot to the relay, power from the relay to the gear, and a ground on the relay. For the lights you can actually bypass the fuse block altogether and run a separate toggle switch. That way they don't come on every time you turn the key.

The lights and the amp are the only items I see needing a relay. The CB will be fine off of switched power on the block as it doesn't suck much juice. With a relay for your amp you can leave the wiring as is, just cutting it in one spot and wiring in a relay, having to run only on wire from your fuse panel to the relay and a ground. How are you turning the amp off right now?
 
Yeah I already wired in a relay for the lights up front and the lights out back (smaller) run through a high amperage switch so the lights are set. My amp uses a built in relay (as most do) so all you need to do is feed one of the terminals 12v to make it kick on (again it doesn't actually draw all its power through this wire...just to kick on, then it pulls power through the heavy guage wire that I have straight to the battery)...

I'm sure I'm not pulling much power at all b/c my lights and amp all have main power wires and the tach/cb don't draw much (like you said)... I just want to clean it up and not have 5+ wires soldered together then stuck into the one spot in the factory fuse panel. I'll take everyone's advice and build my own setup.

So what should I look for if I go hunting for a big relay in the junk yard? Anyone notice good stuff in a particular vehicle?
 
ok I'll google it and see what I can find... so are we talking headlight relays or are there other common ones to look for?
In all honesty I could probably just buy a brand new relay for less than it'd take to go to the junk yard, track one down, pull it and buy it but I'm just curious...
 
Well, since you want the factory locking connectors for your fuse panel, getting a few relays (never hurts to have spares) is a plus.

Personally I like the oval ones GM used for a large number of years, they were used on the TBI '87-91 trucks for the fuel pump from what I've seen, on the Camaro's roughly same years for everything BUT the fuel pump (go figure), and just about every other GM vehicle. When multiple were used, or could have been used, you'll find cool metal brackets that hold one, two, or more of these relays. They use weather resistant connectors, so they are ideal for anywhere on the truck. I've seen reference that they are 30 amp rated, but I'm not positive, as it doesn't say on the relay body. Oh yeah, and the wiring diagram is printed on top of them. :) I am using them for my electric fans (one per fan motor) and haven't had any problems, so that's probably at least 15amps peak. I must have at least 10 of these relays, all used, and not a single one has been bad. The rectangular fuel pump relays on the other hand seem to be more failure prone.

While you are there, you might also peek at some of the late 80's+ FWD GM higher end cars, like Buicks and Cadillacs, check out what they've got underhood for junction blocks for battery voltage. I've got one on my truck to power my fans, so I didn't have to screw with my battery terminals. Short run off the pigtail hanging off the positive wire, and poof, 12V junction block. Just make sure to take the connectors (and as much wiring connected to them as possible) for any components you decide to use.

My '91 R/V/P wiring manual has a great shot of the fuse panel, showing whats hot when along the top, but I still like to verify with a voltmeter before I spend the time. The GM connectors are "keyed", so once you solder the wire up, you can't accidentally put a 12V ignition plug into a 12V batt terminal for instance. If you want, I'll see about getting the fuse panel diagram up on webshots tonight.

Unfortunately with wiring, there is no way to NOT end up with spaghetti, short of cutting down the number of electrical components. If they were all in one location, then wiring would be clean and simple. But from what you are describing, there is no way to reduce the wiring and still do it "right".

You could of course do like the vast majority of PO's, and use a bunch of horrible splices, and have your speakers cut off and on every bump, like my new truck.:rolleyes:
 
headlight relays and starter relays will be the biggest available. Starter relays aren't designed for constant 'on' though. I don't know if it would be bad on one to use continuously for a lighter load.
 
I must have at least 10 of these relays, all used, and not a single one has been bad.


Want to make some $$$ :)



I think what I'll do is get a relay... switch it on and off via the factory fuse panel's ignition controlled prong... run a fuse panel off of the relay (so they're all switched sources) and then wire up all my components to the new fuse panel...


Simple and effective... I'll be happy just to have some better connections... last time I was in Oceano Dunes with Chris and Gary (Chevyin) I lost my front lights the first outing b/c a connection came loose...
 
Sounds like a plan.

Wiring can be a real pain if not done right, either from the standpoint of something failing when you need it, or trying to fix a problem after everything is installed. Edit here, one thing I made sure of was that I could solder the wiring to the new fuse panel connectors. They've got crimp connections, but I don't trust crimps in that cheap metal. Crimped, soldered, and shrink wrapped as close to the fuse as possible, so there is very little possibility for a short if something breaks or gets bent. Besides, the solder ensures you keep a good connection essentially forever.

Ha about making money. I can't count how many trips I've made to the wrecking yard for wiring components. A multitude for the fuse panel connectors, and countless others for the right color wiring to match the wiring diagrams. Then the relays, more relay holders, you name it. Gives me an excuse to check out all the vehicles. :)
 
Yeah all my stuff is soldered and wrapped... my background is in r.c. car/boat/plane/heli/etc. as I worked at a Hobby Shop from the time I was 14 up until last Christmas when I moved over to the machine shop so I'm super anal about wiring...

Ok so if you don't want to make $$$ would you settle for a picture when you get a chance of the better relay you mentioned? I'm a visual guy and it'd be nice if I knew exactly what I was lookin' for. :)
 
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