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Dual Circuit Windstar Fan - Final Shroud Update 05/11/11

LNielson said:
I have the Windstar fans on mine, I have separate relays for both fans and am triggering both to come on with the exact switch you posted from Summit. I have both fans coming on at the same time using a single switch. I have never had any trouble with it been like that for 7-8 years. I did find that 30 amp circuit breakers were too small for these fans. I'm running 40 Amp breakers now, one for each motor.
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SWEET!!!! just what I wanted to hear. Ok I was wondering if it would be bad to rely on both coming on at 195.... but guess I am good to go as you are a long term pilot tester!!!! LOL

so from your experience... motors typically will run hot so once you start up, thermostat opens... temp hits 195.. fans on... they will lower temp then hot then back on.. is it a constant on/off?
 
If I recall, I originally was turning both on at the same time, but they are pretty intense fans and it seemed like loud overkill in many situations. One at a time has benefits. You could pick a higher temp for one switch and all the wiring would be the same. I may have lost track of what you are exactly doing though.
 
Mastiff said:
I may have lost track of what you are exactly doing though.
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Not doing anything yet.. listening to voices in my head contemplating what this thread has to offer... lol..

my end game is electric fans that don't overheat my motor... so I'm fine with 1 always on and 1 come on when temp goes up.... or both on but I also read that both on can really hit the alternator with headlights and turn signals on...
 
I don't think you want one on all the time. Why run it in the dead of winter and waste the HP (and take longer to get heat)? IMO you'll want them to come on in stages based on temp. It's also typical to force one of them on when the AC runs for the condenser. And yeah the factory alternator is not up to running both fans plus headlights. I set mine up with upgraded headlights and wired them so all 4 run all the time. With all that stuff on, the factory size alternator faded badly, so I upgraded that too. Typical upgrade snowball situation. Good luck.
 
so something else to bring up... on FB I posted in a group and a guy said he used the Painless F5 kit and actually has dual speed of each fan...
but the F5 kit has warnings all over to stay clear of water.. yeah not gonna happen!!!!!

is there a way we can integrate the fans to come on in Low.. then high if needed?
 
RootBreaker said:
so something else to bring up... on FB I posted in a group and a guy said he used the Painless F5 kit and actually has dual speed of each fan...
but the F5 kit has warnings all over to stay clear of water.. yeah not gonna happen!!!!!

is there a way we can integrate the fans to come on in Low.. then high if needed?
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The F5 kit is what I'm using. Ive got it tucked up pretty good on the core support, but yea, don't get ANY electric things wet... Including any relays you use. Any water that gets under the relay and the connector body will short out all the connections. My air compressor relays were damaged when I went through a mud pit and got moisture in there.

To do the low/high thing you need to use dual speed fans or use a PWM controller like the F5.
 
Now that you mention it, the Windstars are dual speed, at least the ones I got. I personally don't think it's worth the trouble since just staging the two fans is a 90% solution anyway.
 
Mastiff said:
Now that you mention it, the Windstars are dual speed, at least the ones I got. I personally don't think it's worth the trouble since just staging the two fans is a 90% solution anyway.
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yeah.. I don't know the actual draw, etc.. but if they are also loud and you don't need the high speed.. why not run in low first... here is what was said to me.

Why not use a controller with hi/low? My fans have only ever switched to high while in LA with the ac on.
These things draw a shit ton of power if you go right to high.
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bp71k5 said:
The F5 kit is what I'm using. Ive got it tucked up pretty good on the core support, but yea, don't get ANY electric things wet... Including any relays you use. Any water that gets under the relay and the connector body will short out all the connections. My air compressor relays were damaged when I went through a mud pit and got moisture in there.

To do the low/high thing you need to use dual speed fans or use a PWM controller like the F5.
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well my relays are waterproof...

but you mention to do low/high you need to use dual speed fans.. if mine are dual speed I get that but how do you set to low vs high? Didn't want to go the F5 route due to cost but who knows...
 
RootBreaker said:
yeah.. I don't know the actual draw, etc.. but if they are also loud and you don't need the high speed.. why not run in low first... here is what was said to me.
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I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure my small fan comes on first, so it's not that loud even at full power. Then if stuff gets hot, the big guy kicks in.

I didn't do it, but there are different connections at the fan, so I think you just send power to the connection you want for each fan. It's really meant for a computer to control. You could try having multiple temp switches going to all the connectors, but it might not stage in the way you want due to variability in the parts and such. Others may have better ideas. I think if you want to do a gradual staging of all four options you'll need to buy a controller off the shelf someplace.
 
I'm running dual fans. Not Windstar, but dual fans are dual fans.

I've got ECM control of the first, and the second is a "backup" wired through a factory GM temp switch that is something like a 240* on...obviously there only if things go wrong.

I would not run any fan all the time. It defeats much of the purpose of electric fans, outside of water crossings. Many upsides of running the fans only when needed, very few for running all the time. IMO.

For multiple reasons, I'd wire both up identically if possible. I would not run a fan with a temp control below the rated thermostat temp, and I'd leave a margin. I believe I have my ECM set to 215* fan on 205* off with a 195* thermostat. That allows for some variation in temp. readings/t-stat flow/etc. Otherwise as already stated, the fan(s) may never turn off. Don't underestimate what kind of load the fans are going to put on your engine...startup draw will be more, but nonetheless, you are adding burden to your electrical system and thus the engine, minimizing that would seem to be in your best interest under all circumstances.

If you wire both up identically, but on separate temp senders, IF you got to the point of realizing you needed the large fan vs. the small as primary, or vice versa, you just swap the plugs on the relays and you've got additional (or less) cooling. Also you've got redundancy/swappability for potential failed components.

If your cooling is "too" efficient, you are going to see a lot of fan cycling.

I don't think what you linked is a particularly good product for your app, as it's apparently rated at 30A. If others have had problems with 30A components and the Windstar fans, I'd definitely not want to push my luck over time.

I would not waste my time/money on PWM or four stages of cooling. Although that would be very neat, practically, dual fans set up as primary/secondary will be fine.
 
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I have both fans turning on together (I've been thinking of changing it, but that's another topic...), controlled by the ECM. I just program in the "on" and "off" temps I want. Obviously there needs to be a difference between the two temps or it will cycle a lot. Any thermostatic switch designed to control a radiator fan with have this hysteresis built-in.

I've never liked the radiator probe thing for control, as I could never get it to work right. It seems logical that unless the rad is hot there's no sense running the fan, but the thing we're really trying to regulate is block water temp, not rad temp. When I was messing with that, the response seemed really slow, like the engine temp would be too high before the fan came on, then the fan would run until the rad was almost cold.

When I had a <5 mile commute in the winter, the fans wouldn't come on at all, except sometimes when just pulling into work. Obviously some efficiency there and should also give quicker warm-up times than a clutch fan.
 
fyi.. I read all over here and the web.. some say use a diode some say you don't need it. This guy explains why @ 2 min
 
FWIW, I mainly switched to the PWM control so I could lower the current draw when both fans kicked on. They would blow a 30A fuse so I was running a 40A. Then the lights would dim every time they kicked on and I liked the idea of a slow start and ramp up as needed. Using two separate switches at two temps would be the next best thing to accomplish that. You may only need one fan for 90% of its use so you could use the second as an emergency backup.
 
^^^ agreed.. I don't want to spend the money on the PWM... hah..

I am adding all of this to this thread instead of q in my build thread as this windstar fan thread houses so much good info (hope I'm not crudding it up.. hah)

so after searching a bit more.. found out a few things.

so windstar fans... from what I am gathering only the small fan (if that is the one with 3 wires) is the actual 2 speed fan. The 2 wire fan (large?) is just a single speed fan!!!!! sooooo few things can be done...

1. wire both fans utilizing low on one and regular speed on other to the temp switch and be done.
2. do same; however, add a switch to kick on high but to me that is only on one fan and not both....

then I also found this youtube video where he diagrams out how to use 3 relays... 1 as a main point to switch between 2 others. one for high and 1 for low. In addition low is used by temp and high used by switch... I like this idea...


relays.png
 
Not sure I'd trust electrical advice from a guy who advertises his expertise using a picture of his truck on fire...:yikes:

Seems complicated, but interesting.
 
Another great video.. he shows and teaches you all kinds of stuff and this makes sense...
he show you how to use 2 relays to power on 2 fans in low... then how to wire in a 3rd relay to do high....

 
What are your cooling requirements?

There is zero point unless you like complexity, of wiring it up for multiple fan speeds, on multiple fans IMO, unless you have very specific requirements. You have two fans. Use one as primary (call that your low speed) use one as your secondary (call that high speed). Use both on "high" only. Done.

Unless your vehicle is already very quiet and very fuel efficient, the difference of electrical draw, engine load, or fan noise is going to be insignificant.

These are what I run. I expect the Windstar fans to work even better:
ssfan.jpg


The single (primary) fan has never been unable to control engine temps, even with a bad radiator. 90*, steep climbing, low speeds, still not a problem. If I had AC I'd probably want the secondary to come on when the AC was requested. That is it.
 
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