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Front Axle Saga... Just go 44 for now?
- Thread starter elks
- Start date
Agreed. I found a similar set. 4.56 60/14 with a Detroit. I did the standard bearing seals brakes (which most axles will need regardless) and wheeled it open for 2 years. I pieced together my hydro setup and by that time I was trail only so I just welded my front. I paid $400 for my 60 and I prolly have $250 into it with steering and rebuild parts.
I still say go 44 for now, keep your driving conservative dependant on what type of terrain your in, then get the truck working. If you get a 1000$ 60 and have to work on it, you'll be even farther behind.
Many make the mistake of shooting for the moon, and the project sits for years on end, and discouragement follows.
Sounds like the 44 is ready to run w/ brakes and all, and keeping it open will help preserve the axles/joints.
Ultimately a 60 would be cool, but set your build back how much further?
I have lived the bargain D60, and literally sunk a couple grand into it with upgrades/rebuilding it.
Many make the mistake of shooting for the moon, and the project sits for years on end, and discouragement follows.
Sounds like the 44 is ready to run w/ brakes and all, and keeping it open will help preserve the axles/joints.
Ultimately a 60 would be cool, but set your build back how much further?
I have lived the bargain D60, and literally sunk a couple grand into it with upgrades/rebuilding it.
four_by_ken
1/2 ton status
I'l put my 2 cents in...
All depends on your kind of wheeling and how you treat the Jeep.
I have friends both ways... they would bust the 60 and the others would last with a 44 forever.
Myself... I like to not worry. And, I tend to have a heavy foot.
I would do the 60 for sure myself.
All depends on your kind of wheeling and how you treat the Jeep.
I have friends both ways... they would bust the 60 and the others would last with a 44 forever.
Myself... I like to not worry. And, I tend to have a heavy foot.
I would do the 60 for sure myself.
lovebomb_69
Registered Member
Id go 60. i bought mine from an axle shop that had been inspected and guaranteed for 1100. which is almost what i would have in my other front end if i let it. nickle and dime me fixing one weak link after another.
Just to throw a quick reality check out there, Do you have a LoMax 205? line on one? They aren't available anytime in the near future/ ever again.
If you have a line on one that works then go for the lomax and put in the 44. If you don't spend the money on the 60 so you can use it harder.
On the other hand I have to agree with JMS, maybe the reality of the 44 is that it provides back up to the budget for you (Kids see a responsible adult spending within their means) and the positive side is that you have more money to put somewhere else.
If I was getting the 60 I would do a farmer overhaul with new grease in everything, and only replace whats not right. Even if a bearing is on the edge of good or bad just use it and understand that you aren't making a 2,000 mile road trip. You have good wheeling locally and even bad bearings will get you through several years I bet.
If you have a line on one that works then go for the lomax and put in the 44. If you don't spend the money on the 60 so you can use it harder.
On the other hand I have to agree with JMS, maybe the reality of the 44 is that it provides back up to the budget for you (Kids see a responsible adult spending within their means) and the positive side is that you have more money to put somewhere else.
If I was getting the 60 I would do a farmer overhaul with new grease in everything, and only replace whats not right. Even if a bearing is on the edge of good or bad just use it and understand that you aren't making a 2,000 mile road trip. You have good wheeling locally and even bad bearings will get you through several years I bet.
Those are definitely the very high side of prices for a D60, almost to being exaggerated to make a point. If you spend $1,200 on a "basket case" DRW D60 when you need a SRW version.....well, to put it nicely it wasn't a very good investment. Then on top of that you are quoting $1,500 for gears and a locker?I’ve been running a D44 in the front of my '78 K10 for 17 years. About 7 years ago I added a TruTrac with 4:56 gears. The only problem I had was a broken axle shaft u-joint due to it running dry before the 4:56 gear and TruTrac install. The truck has a 2002 425 HP 8.1L and weights over 7,500 lbs with the camper on it, runs Q78x16 Super Swampers for local trips and 315/75/16 for all terrains for long distance trips. This truck gets used all over the back country of Colorado, Utah and Arizona. I would love to have a D60 as much as the next guy but I refuse to pay $1200 for a basket case axle that needs regeared ($500), traction devise (~$1000), single wheel adapters ($$$), king pins,…..the li$t goes on and on. Sometimes I think people read too many magazines and forums and come up with the idea everybody needs a D60 because D44's are so "weak". I guess it is all in driving technique and how careless one is with the loud pedal. I’ll keep wheeling my D44 until I really find a compelling reason to move to a D60 that justifies the cost, which I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
Regarding some other comments. Yes, a D44 will tend to hold up better under a CJ-7 because it's lighter but I would still question it's durability with a modified V-8, low transfer case gearing, and up to 40" tires.
elks
1/2 ton status
I am running a dana 300 tcase. The 4to1 is easy to find etc...
I am not sure which road to take. I am waiting to figure out how much I am getting back from the government before I decide. I have the money now to buy a 60 front, but how much I have to put in it to get it working will determine the route I take.
I am looking for a SRW 4.56 dana 60, but so far no luck. I am fine running it stock, just want it to be right when I get it. I want atleast 4.56 gears, but prefer 5.13s. I just have to find the right deal. It sucks being only 2 hours from Moab, seem like everyone is looking for Dana 60s... I have only found 1, DRW 4.56 for $1200 at a junk yard. I am thinking I might just hold out.
I have been looking in every farmers field wanting to find a truck.
It took me over 2 years to find my 60, cause I found one for trade work. Couldn't afford to buy one.
The 44/60 argument, hmmmmm, I know several guys who are running 44s not huge HP with 37s and 38s even one with 39.5s, These are all either in early broncos Jeeps or toyotas.
They have all upgraded to chro mos drive flanges, locked it etc. They don't break, of course they all upgraded for a reason, they all broke before.
Stock 60 is bulletproof with 38s nearly bulletproof with 40s.
In rocks if will break a 44 with 38s or larger and a front locker, keep it open and you will be mostly alright.
But if you throw a locker up there with 38s put chro mos in your budget. Then if you go 40s well its time to sell that 44 and now you have spent money twice because built 44s used go for very little.
I say keep looking for a 60. I can't see you building a Jeep with full widths living 2 hours from Moab and not wanting to do rocks with it
The 44/60 argument, hmmmmm, I know several guys who are running 44s not huge HP with 37s and 38s even one with 39.5s, These are all either in early broncos Jeeps or toyotas.
They have all upgraded to chro mos drive flanges, locked it etc. They don't break, of course they all upgraded for a reason, they all broke before.
Stock 60 is bulletproof with 38s nearly bulletproof with 40s.
In rocks if will break a 44 with 38s or larger and a front locker, keep it open and you will be mostly alright.
But if you throw a locker up there with 38s put chro mos in your budget. Then if you go 40s well its time to sell that 44 and now you have spent money twice because built 44s used go for very little.
I say keep looking for a 60. I can't see you building a Jeep with full widths living 2 hours from Moab and not wanting to do rocks with it
Brady
1/2 ton status
I say grab the D44.I know the kids would like to see it up and running.Cody bugs me all the time to finish with the new motor swap.
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Exaggerated, eh.
Dude, check this out.
YHC63629 Single wheel hubs 216.25 x 2 = $432.50 (Randy’s Ring and Pinion)
YG D60-456 D60 4.56 Ring and Pinion $313.00 (Randy’s Ring and Pinion)
YESRP-FRONT Y.E.S. FRONT – Yukon $29.99 (I can’t remember what this part is but it was on the quote from Randy’s Ring and Pinion. It is one of the R&P set up parts)
ZK D60-F D60 & D61 FRONT MASTER Install kit $135.17 (Randy’s Ring and Pinion)
EAT915A388 Detroit TruTrac $619.00 (4WP) (this is the cheapest traction devise I would settle for, as I would rather have an ARB or E-locker)
That totals $1529.66 before you even have an D60 axle in hand
SRW front Dana 60’s are practically impossible to find around here, let alone one with the correct gear ratio. If you are lucky enough to find a D60 it is usually a DRW front D60 with 4:10 gears. In fact, here is an example of one for sale in my area now (oops, my bad…for $1250 this guy is kicking in a rear axle too…wow!). $1000 to $1200 is the typical going price for a front D60 around here.
Add your $1000 Craiglist lucky score D60 or boneyard find to the parts prices, now you are up to $2529.66 and that is before you replace the king pins, brake pads, slide pins, maybe new locking hubs and toss in a set of new HD U-joints. You can quickly have close to $3,000 wrapped up in a front Dana 60 before you even hit the dirt if you want to do the axle right before you install it. I don't cut corners so my projects tend to get pricey. I'll stick with my D44 for as long as I can or a D60 falls into my lap for a price I am willing to pay....and I am not willing to pay this much. Like Elks, I am going to just hold out and wait for the kid that has to part out his rock crawler for 10 cents on the dollar to feed his family and pay his credit card bills .
How is that exaggerating????
79rustyk10
3/4 ton status
Im glad I dont forsee tires any bigger than 35"s in my future, because my foot is pretty heavy.
I do agree that for many guys on here a D60 is needed, but for others its overkill.
I cant remember the last time Ive seen a 60 for less than a grand around here, and there isnt any really built rigs to speak of compared to more 4x4 friendly places you guys live. Mainly just reneck hack job mudtrucks, due to the fact that theres no real wheeling here to speak of, there is however a bit of truck pulling.
I do agree that for many guys on here a D60 is needed, but for others its overkill.
I cant remember the last time Ive seen a 60 for less than a grand around here, and there isnt any really built rigs to speak of compared to more 4x4 friendly places you guys live. Mainly just reneck hack job mudtrucks, due to the fact that theres no real wheeling here to speak of, there is however a bit of truck pulling.
owenst7
1/2 ton status
I paid $1000 locally for my 60+14. That's the normal going price around here. The wheel bearings were driveable, the ujoints not so much (I wheeled them for a year anyway without breaking anything). After a year, I put new wheel bearings and ujoints in for less than $200. The rear axle got a pair of wheel cylinders for $20 after a couple years. Meanwhile, I've been wheeling the piss out of the truck.
It makes a difference if you can get to know your local driveline shop/Spicer dealer. I get my ujoints for like $20 or something because I frequently show up with a burger for the manager around lunchtime. All my bearings, seals, shafts, etc are about half the price that I can source them elsewhere.
The main reason I bit the bullet and got a 60 was steering. To do crossover on a 44 is quite a bit more expensive than a 60 because of the modified knuckle. Once you associate that cost, the few hundred dollars extra was very much worth the cost of having an axle I wouldn't break all the time. Plus, 60s are only going to get more expensive. 44s will never really retain much value, and you'll never get half your money back out of one if you change your mind.
I guess the way I feel about it is that if a 44 isn't going to work without putting money in to it, you're probably better off with something bigger to start with. If you have legitimate need for a 4:1 case and a front locker, you probably have a legitimate need for a bigger front axle. Hell, I still have a stock tcase and an open front and run pretty much all the trails around here that a fullsize can fit through (and some that I have to squeeze through).
It makes a difference if you can get to know your local driveline shop/Spicer dealer. I get my ujoints for like $20 or something because I frequently show up with a burger for the manager around lunchtime. All my bearings, seals, shafts, etc are about half the price that I can source them elsewhere.
The main reason I bit the bullet and got a 60 was steering. To do crossover on a 44 is quite a bit more expensive than a 60 because of the modified knuckle. Once you associate that cost, the few hundred dollars extra was very much worth the cost of having an axle I wouldn't break all the time. Plus, 60s are only going to get more expensive. 44s will never really retain much value, and you'll never get half your money back out of one if you change your mind.
I guess the way I feel about it is that if a 44 isn't going to work without putting money in to it, you're probably better off with something bigger to start with. If you have legitimate need for a 4:1 case and a front locker, you probably have a legitimate need for a bigger front axle. Hell, I still have a stock tcase and an open front and run pretty much all the trails around here that a fullsize can fit through (and some that I have to squeeze through).
Exaggerated, eh.
Dude, check this out.
YHC63629 Single wheel hubs 216.25 x 2 = $432.50 (Randy’s Ring and Pinion)
YG D60-456 D60 4.56 Ring and Pinion $313.00 (Randy’s Ring and Pinion)
YESRP-FRONT Y.E.S. FRONT – Yukon $29.99 (I can’t remember what this part is but it was on the quote from Randy’s Ring and Pinion. It is one of the R&P set up parts)
ZK D60-F D60 & D61 FRONT MASTER Install kit $135.17 (Randy’s Ring and Pinion)
EAT915A388 Detroit TruTrac $619.00 (4WP) (this is the cheapest traction devise I would settle for, as I would rather have an ARB or E-locker)
That totals $1529.66 before you even have an D60 axle in hand
SRW front Dana 60’s are practically impossible to find around here, let alone one with the correct gear ratio. If you are lucky enough to find a D60 it is usually a DRW front D60 with 4:10 gears. In fact, here is an example of one for sale in my area now (oops, my bad…for $1250 this guy is kicking in a rear axle too…wow!). $1000 to $1200 is the typical going price for a front D60 around here.
Add your $1000 Craiglist lucky score D60 or boneyard find to the parts prices, now you are up to $2529.66 and that is before you replace the king pins, brake pads, slide pins, maybe new locking hubs and toss in a set of new HD U-joints. You can quickly have close to $3,000 wrapped up in a front Dana 60 before you even hit the dirt if you want to do the axle right before you install it. I don't cut corners so my projects tend to get pricey. I'll stick with my D44 for as long as I can or a D60 falls into my lap for a price I am willing to pay....and I am not willing to pay this much. Like Elks, I am going to just hold out and wait for the kid that has to part out his rock crawler for 10 cents on the dollar to feed his family and pay his credit card bills .
How is that exaggerating????
I don't deny the prices you listed above, but if you want a SRW version with D60 gears just go out and buy what you need instead of dropping all of that extra money. For the prices you are quoting you could make a phone call to Boyce and have it shipped to your door, and I don't think anybody will argue that they are sky-high. My buddy sold a coveted '78-'79 Ford high pinion D60 with a Detroit locker in it back before the economy tanked and got under a $1,000 for it.
You need to stop looking on only 4x4 sites because everybody there knows that D60s are in high demand and pricey. There are a bunch of people in my club who have bought 60's and I don't think any paid more than maybe $500 for them.
