Full hydro on Dana 60

[GsxrMike]

I am looking for someone who sells a kit to install full hydraulic steering on my 86 K5 (5.7) w/ a dana 60 front axle or maybe a list of parts you guys have found effective together. I found some universal kits on PSCs website but I don't know which one I would need. I also did a search on here and google and I can't seem to find the info I need. I plan on reading the article on pirate but I went wheeling all day today and I am damn tired. My bead locks and fuel injection took my rig to a whole new level and I think full hydro steering would be a great next step.

 

[4X4HIGH]

I know Kert was working on a system a while back, you might want to give him a jump start again.

 

[dirtygoat]

It's pretty simple... You can pick up a orbital valve off ebay or a forklift wrecking yard... At the forklift yards you can get rams as well... Run it off your stock pump with a tranny cooler and a reservoir... I built my hoses with reusable field fittings... I'm at about $200... That doesn't include the tierod I built...

Start looking at valves and only ones that have the serial number posted... Then look up the number and get the specs for that valve...

You want an neutral circuit, open center, non-load reactive, manual check valve with ~ 7 c.i. of displacement... I'm running a Char-Lynn 241-1004, open center, non load reactive, 7.3 c.i. displacement... Single ended 1 3/4" x 8" ram...

I found that it was a lot easier than I expected... I was over thinking it...

BTW, I can turn my grooved 38.5 SXs on asphalt with a welded d60 with both hubs locked with one finger...


Here's some links to check valve specs...

Char-Lynn series 2 (291-xxxx)(293-xxxx)
http://192.77.147.11/pdf/info/06-323.pdf


Char-Lynn series 3,4,6 and 12 (211-xxxx)(212-xxxx)(213-xxxx)(241-xxxx)(243-xxxx)
http://www.sophtech.org/PDF%20Files/Motors/Parts%20Info%20211-212-213-241-243.pdf


Char-Lynn series 110,230 and 450 (261-xxxx)(263-xxxx)
http://www.vickers.sh.cn/pdfs/06-321.pdf


Eaton page with a lot of pdf info as well as part numbers and exploded schematics for teardown...
http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/steer_main.htm


Sauer-Danfoss OSPB,OSPC,OSPR and OSPD Open Center Units
http://www.sauer-danfoss.de/pdf/produkte/Lenkungen/520L0502_Steering%20Units%20and%20Torque%20Amplifiers_TI.pdf


Here's a bunch of links for info regarding full-hydro set ups...

Billavista's Full Hydraulic Steering Unit Calculator
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/Steering.html


Billavista's Full Hydro Bible
Part 1
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/index1.html
Part 2
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/index2.html
Part 3
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/index3.html


West Texas Offroad GM Pump Upgrade
http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.com/powersteering.html


AZ Rockcrawler's Full Hydro Single Ended Ram Build
http://azrockcrawler.com/_images/tech/2003/4-03hydrosteering/4-03fullhydro.html

AZ Rockcrawler's Full Hydro Double Ended Ram Build
http://azrockcrawler.com/_images/tech/2005/9-20-05hydrosteering/fullhydrosteering.html


Plumbing it was easy... There's 4 ports on the valve, R (right), L (left), T (tank) and P (pressure)... The R,L,P need to be high pressure hydro hose with hydro fittings... The T is just a return line... R and L go to the ram, P to the pressure line on your stock steering pump and the T goes to the reservoir and back to the return line on steering pump...

Hope this helps...

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

This is the kit you would need.

Using the stock pump will be slower and weaker, and you'll burn up pumps.

You'll want to use a double ended ram, a single ended ram in a full hydro setup means you'll have more steering power in one direction (and less in the other) and you'll have more turns of the steering wheel in one direction than the other.

Don't use a small ram, 2.5" double ended is the right size for this application. You can physically turn the tires with a smaller ram but you'll burn up pumps (the pump has to work harder, if you need 1000 lbs of steering force the pump needs to put out more psi with a 1.75" ram to get that much force than it does with a 2.5" one, so the pumps don't last long).

We sell all this stuff, even a tad cheaper than PSC I think. You won't find a better setup than that PSC kit. We've dealt with all of them (Howe, AGR, homemade etc), that kit is it. It will be under mine as soon as I get links under the front.

 

[COCHEV]

This is the kit you would need.

Using the stock pump will be slower and weaker, and you'll burn up pumps.

You'll want to use a double ended ram, a single ended ram in a full hydro setup means you'll have more steering power in one direction (and less in the other) and you'll have more turns of the steering wheel in one direction than the other.

Don't use a small ram, 2.5" double ended is the right size for this application. You can physically turn the tires with a smaller ram but you'll burn up pumps (the pump has to work harder, if you need 1000 lbs of steering force the pump needs to put out more psi with a 1.75" ram to get that much force than it does with a 2.5" one, so the pumps don't last long).

We sell all this stuff, even a tad cheaper than PSC I think. You won't find a better setup than that PSC kit. We've dealt with all of them (Howe, AGR, homemade etc), that kit is it. It will be under mine as soon as I get links under the front.

Are those street legal? I've read Hydro assist is better for street/trail cause you get the return to center action like stock steering

 

[GsxrMike]

Are those street legal? I've read Hydro assist is better for street/trail cause you get the return to center action like stock steering

For my use full hydro would be my personal preference, I don't beleive full hydro is legal for highway use because if it fails you have no mechanical back up to keep you going the direction that you choose. I beleive the load reactive set ups will give you some return to center feel if your caster/camber is correct. I don't really need return to center because I am always turning the damn wheel anyways. The way it is now it pulls hard right so I figure so long as the truck is going the direction that I want it to go then I'm good.

 

[sweetk30]

most if not all states have laws on steering. must have mechanical linkage to control if a hydro system dosnt work.

some get away with the full hydro. but i would hate to have a dead full hydro system at 65mph

 

[GsxrMike]

Anybody have any pictures they can post up of their dana 60 with full hydro? Is there more than one way to go about setting up the location of the ram and tierods? My brother had an idea to install steering arms so they point back and put the system toward the top back of the axle (clearance permitting) to get it out of harms way. I tend to smash into a lot of rocks down low and I wouldn't want anything getting damaged. My tie rod right now looks like rainbow. Thanks for the help so far guys! I'm going to try and read billa's tech about it later and maybe some of those links you posted goat (super cool thanks!).

 

[1976Blazer76]

Are you running leafs in the front? I'm in the middle of putting the psc kit shown above on my rig now, I can take some pics for you next time I'm out in the shop.

 

[GsxrMike]

Yeah I'm running 52" leafs in the front right now. Pics would be great!

 

[blazinzuk]

Full hydro is way easier on a linked rig.

A buddy of mine did full hydro on leafs. It worked out well enough but we had to mod it a couple times to get it all solid. Just not a ton of room to work with, when doing it with leafs

 

[GsxrMike]

most if not all states have laws on steering. must have mechanical linkage to control if a hydro system dosnt work.

some get away with the full hydro. but i would hate to have a dead full hydro system at 65mph

I would hate to be anywhere near my blazer at 65mph. Just so everyone is clear: My rig is trailered to the trails and always will be.

 

[GsxrMike]

Full hydro is way easier on a linked rig.

A buddy of mine did full hydro on leafs. It worked out well enough but we had to mod it a couple times to get it all solid. Just not a ton of room to work with, when doing it with leafs

Well thats not what I wanted to hear, I strongly considered going with a 4 link front and rear and started playing with the numbers but it seemed damn near impossible (for me) to get anything right with 4 linking the front. The difficulty plus time involved for me was to much so I decided not to mess with links for now. Maybe I could do hydro assist for now, would that be any easier?

 

[MNorby]

I'm setting up a single ended ram on mine. Have driven a rig with singles from and rear and never noticed the difference in turns left vs right, I just turned the wheel till tires pointed they way I wanted and went. Here is a chart I made for seeing what turns count based on different orbital valves.


2.5 x 8 Single Ended Cylinder Volume
39.25in³ cylinder side
31.95in³ rod side (1.125" rod=7.95in³)

Turns lock-to-lock based on orbital displacement
12.0in³ orbital = 2.66 / 3.27
9.6in³ orbital = 3.26 / 4.09
7.5in³ orbital = 4.26 / 5.23
6.0in³ orbital = 5.33 / 6.54

I have a 9.6cf orbital for my setup. Other reason for single ended is when you see pics of steering failures on double ended cylinders the rod is generally bent. On single ended tie-rod bends. To me it seems easier to fix/straighten the tie-rod vs having to get a new rod for the cylinder especially if I am on a long trip away from home.

 

[FOR MUD]

 

[GreenieK30]

I run a Howe kit http://www.howeperformance.com/rockcrawling.html with a P-pump, Vanco hydroboost and single ended ram. It is down low because of my suspension. I had a double ended ram kit and sold it because this one fit my truck better. There is no skidplate yet, it is on the to do list. It works great and I have no regrets!


This truck has also had 47" LTBs, 48" Michelins and 54" Boggers and the steering is amazing.

 

[GreenieK30]

I would hate to be anywhere near my blazer at 65mph. Just so everyone is clear: My rig is trailered to the trails and always will be.

I have had my Chev up to 50 mph with full hydro and it is more responsive then normal. Some new vehicles have electric rack and pinion steering with no mechanical linkage. Chevy and Honda have offered electric rear steer on factory vehicles too.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Are those street legal? I've read Hydro assist is better for street/trail cause you get the return to center action like stock steering

I've never seen a law that actually said mechanical steering is necessary. I think it's like the misconception that beadlocks are illegal, when in reality there is no law anywhere stating that beadlocks are illegal. There are plenty of medium duty trucks on the road with full hydraulic steering.

I wouldn't plan on lots of street time with full hydro though.

 

[sweetk30]

ny state if you look and read the rules for yearly inspection its check all mechanical linkage as a system. and if assist of some cind has to function and no leaks.

 

[Fordum]

Chris, don't go to a lot of trouble, because if it would work, it would be mid summer or later before I could even think about this, but what kind of max specs are available for a Ford 351ci with serp belt, Power steering pump?

That one company uses the power steering pump to drive their winches, and I once looked into doing the same for my winch.
But, the stock pump has nowhere near the volume or pressure I would need.

There is a kit made that would give me an engine driven pump, but it is very involved and requires an additional belt.

If I could just replace my present pump with a big honking pump it would be much simpler.

Of course, that puts more load on the belt which might not handle it, and there might not be room for a bigger pump.