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Greenie alert
- Thread starter az-k5
- Start date
darkshadow
1 ton status
anyone with an open mind could see the artical was bias.bugspray said:
however the statemen you made was unessasaryy, and as one sided as the very artical you were critiasizing.
I sugest you edit your post so as not to atack the members of the board who share the faith you insulted.
dave
Leper
1/2 ton status
chief77 said:So everyone thinks that we as four-wheelers have the right to destroy the land that we play on? If so I guess I wanted to be a part of this forum for the wrong reasons.....
chief77
I think you need to lighten up. We voted for the USE of the land, not the right to destroy it. IMO many folks just went there to make the poll get owned. If you spend a little more time on this forum I believe you will realize that.
I think I speak for most of the people here when I say: We ask for permission to go on private lands, we stay where we are supposed to be, whatever we take on a trail we take back with us, and we do a good job of informing the less informed about these type of things. If the majority wasn't like that, we wouldn't have places designated for us . Like Gilmer, the Den, and k-rocks in TX.Please don't come in here with a blanket conclusion of the members with so little info on them.
Leper
BTW is there really a Greenbow in AL?
txfiremank5
1/2 ton status
chief77 said:So everyone thinks that we as four-wheelers have the right to destroy the land that we play on? If so I guess I wanted to be a part of this forum for the wrong reasons.....
chief77
Looks like chief77 just saved himself 25 dollars..
I won't bother saying what's already been said, well, at least 2 times before me. But I will say, that since you are a part of this forum... it's painfuly obvious that you have not been doing much reading here.
I apologize to all that took my statement the wrong way, I am in no way bashing anyone and I understand the freedoms that are seemingly taken away by others when they say we are no longer welcome in their parks, but without sounding like a tree-hugger, the problems of the echo system and erosion is substantial unless we as hobbyists understand the impacts of doing what we love. Now in saying this I have noticed more and more gates in areas where I used to ride, and I get frustrated because of the land owners keeping me from doing what I love, but I have also noticed the tracks I used to ride are becoming more and more impassable, due to the continued rutting of the trails, thus what do I do I go around and create new ones, and the cycle goes on.
I feel if we are going to make an impact in the four wheeler world that we also have to maintain the damage created by our sport, so the “greenies” don’t have anything to gripe about.
Please don’t take what I am saying in the wrong context, and just keep an understanding that we all should have the opportunity to have our say without being bashed!!!!!
chief77
I feel if we are going to make an impact in the four wheeler world that we also have to maintain the damage created by our sport, so the “greenies” don’t have anything to gripe about.
Please don’t take what I am saying in the wrong context, and just keep an understanding that we all should have the opportunity to have our say without being bashed!!!!!
chief77
txfiremank5
1/2 ton status
For anyone interested, here is a statement I sent to the Christian Science Monitor.
As an avid off-roader I want to thank you for your concern about our nations parks, and their use by vehicles, and off road vehicle in particular. I think any "true" off road enthusiast would agree that we care about the parks, and america's outdoor lifestyle, just as much as anyone else. Part of what makes a trail ride enjoyable is the scenic beauty we can experience with out family. We, just as much as anyone else, are offended by the blatant disregard that some vehicle operators, as well as any other park users, have for the set rules of the park. The poll you had on your website, asked if vehicles should be allowed in the parks. Well, I believe that they should be. I believe that trails should be set aside, and that strict enforcement should be upheld, for vehicles to stick to those trails. But, to ask that none be allowed in the parks is absurd. Environmental damage can come from backpackers as well, via campfires, or trash left behind. Pointing the finger at one group is, in my book, witch-hunting. It is the responsibility of all park users to act in accourdance with the rules. We all suffer from the effects that these "bad apples" cause in the parks. We can all gain from everyone being educated, and sticking to the rules of the park. I think if you took the time to meet some true off roaders, you would quickly find out that they are as concerned for the american outdoors as much, if not more, than anyone else. Many off roaders practice "tread lightly", in an effort to leave behind no trace that they were there. Many off road clubs also make it a point to conduct park/trail clean ups, in an effort to keep the areas clean and enjoyable for all to use. I think education, and adherence to the rules, is the answer. In general, anyone can abuse the parks. Don’t let the minority of any one group ruin it for the majority. Everyone should be able to enjoy the parks in a way that they want to, within reason, of course. Through our combined efforts, and concern, it is my hope that we can all find our trip to a national park, an enjoyable event, be it in a vehicle, or on foot.
As an avid off-roader I want to thank you for your concern about our nations parks, and their use by vehicles, and off road vehicle in particular. I think any "true" off road enthusiast would agree that we care about the parks, and america's outdoor lifestyle, just as much as anyone else. Part of what makes a trail ride enjoyable is the scenic beauty we can experience with out family. We, just as much as anyone else, are offended by the blatant disregard that some vehicle operators, as well as any other park users, have for the set rules of the park. The poll you had on your website, asked if vehicles should be allowed in the parks. Well, I believe that they should be. I believe that trails should be set aside, and that strict enforcement should be upheld, for vehicles to stick to those trails. But, to ask that none be allowed in the parks is absurd. Environmental damage can come from backpackers as well, via campfires, or trash left behind. Pointing the finger at one group is, in my book, witch-hunting. It is the responsibility of all park users to act in accourdance with the rules. We all suffer from the effects that these "bad apples" cause in the parks. We can all gain from everyone being educated, and sticking to the rules of the park. I think if you took the time to meet some true off roaders, you would quickly find out that they are as concerned for the american outdoors as much, if not more, than anyone else. Many off roaders practice "tread lightly", in an effort to leave behind no trace that they were there. Many off road clubs also make it a point to conduct park/trail clean ups, in an effort to keep the areas clean and enjoyable for all to use. I think education, and adherence to the rules, is the answer. In general, anyone can abuse the parks. Don’t let the minority of any one group ruin it for the majority. Everyone should be able to enjoy the parks in a way that they want to, within reason, of course. Through our combined efforts, and concern, it is my hope that we can all find our trip to a national park, an enjoyable event, be it in a vehicle, or on foot.
Leper
1/2 ton status
Nice
beater_k20
Banned
chief77 said:So everyone thinks that we as four-wheelers have the right to destroy the land that we play on? If so I guess I wanted to be a part of this forum for the wrong reasons.....
chief77
chief77 said:
boys and girls, can you say hypocrite?
a little bit of trail maintnance goes a long way. dont like those deep ruts? grab a shovel and fill em in a little.
Leper
1/2 ton status
chief77 said:I have also noticed the tracks I used to ride are becoming more and more impassable, due to the continued rutting of the trails, thus what do I do I go around and create new ones, and the cycle goes on.
chief77
If a trail is not passable for your rig, build your rig better, or fix the damn trail, and quit being the person these people are bitching about. On more than one occasion a small shovel has enabled me to keep going and make the trail better for other people so no more trails are needed.
Military surplus folding shovel...$18.00
15 minutes of work....$a bucket of sweat
Keeping a$$hats off of our backs about offroading... Priceless
Diesel Dan
1/2 ton status
Leper said:
Ok, now we this is an interesting statement in itself.
We've seen many trails/roads get torn up by BIG trucks. Around here we don't have rocks, just mud and basically flat land. So the build your rig better theory means we all should have 49"+ tires and snorkels. Because some of these roads aren't even passible with 40s and the water is so deep you'd spend an hour with a backhoe trying to fill it in and with what fill? Since it's all swamp fill is hard to come by.
I've run everything from stock tires to 1 ton subs on 44s. Been on both sides of the coin, had to take a "bypass" with my Dodge/Cummins(33s) because the forest road was so torn up the only other choice was backtracking umpteen miles and MAYBE find another road in the general direction we were going. When out with the sub on 44s we had to get on the CB and tell other in the group to quit tearing up small holes while in 2wd. They were running 40s&44s and 35s in 4wd had a hard time making after they were "playing" around
. Basically keep it for the play areas so all can enjoy.In the past I submitted a general plan to the DNR for a hardcore 4wd trail. Would have been about 2.5 miles and all day with winches, lots-a mud and water. Would have been posted so trail cruisers wouldn't be caught off gaurd by a 3ft deep water hazard
. Even had a topo map from the late 60s early 70s showing it was at one time a mapped road that had apparently not been maintained. Results:not interested. Entire county basically shut down to ORVs now.
As the old saying goes: know the enemy you are fighting.
What may seem like a few extremists that are vocal could be just that.
OR, it could be a few vocal extremist being lead along by a silent, well educated, many.....
Leper
1/2 ton status
Did you quit reading before you got to the" fix the trail with a shovel "part?
beater_k20
Banned
nobody ever said trail maintnance was quick or easy. if the trail has been let go for a long period of time, you're in for a lot of work. if you keep up on it when it just starts going downhill, it will be much easier to maintain it.
blazerpro79
1/2 ton status
Diesel Dan said:
if the trails are meant for people with 49s and snorkels, and your not equipped for such a trail, stay off them or fix them.
Diesel Dan
1/2 ton status
beater_k20 said:
On more than one occasion a small shovel has enabled me to keep going and make the trail better for other people so no more trails are needed.
Military surplus folding shovel...$18.00
15 minutes of work....$a bucket of sweat
Sounds like it too me.
But when to maintain a trail? I'll bet my buddies blazer running 56" tractor tires on 2.5 rockwells can run about anything without getting stuck. So when driving his truck 99% of trails don't need maintenance.
And the comment about if the trial is designed for 49" tires then anything else is under equipped. We have ORV routes that don't dictate vehicle size. And many routes run down legal roads for a period. So since we can legally run down these roads with tractor tires we can make it only passable with tractor tires?
mini_mull
1/2 ton status
It's up to 76 to 24, our favor. BTW, the Ensign is a magazine about religion and doesn't contain articles on political or special interest issues 
.
.
beater_k20
Banned
Diesel Dan said:
notice that he said "on more than one occasion", and not "every time". of course with your obvious lack of common sense, it is crazy of me to expect you to have a little reading comprehension as well. please, join your friends in embracing an Oak somewhere.
mini_mull
1/2 ton status
c'mon, do you really think this guy wheels, or could even pick a blazer out of a line up? Maybe some one traced back the link and is playing with us? At the very least it's a greenie whose just been waiting on the sidelines for a chance to show how unsensitive we are to the enviroment. It's just like the ones that want to ban hunting to save animals from extinction, who don't understand that hunters spend more money on conservation than anyone, and there would be no wildlife if it were not for us. Same with trails on parks, we want to maintain them and keep them nice because we use them. If we ruin them how are we going to ride 'em. DUH!
Ok, I just read the posted article again, and I still don’t understand the debate of trying to conserve the National Parks as a reason for four wheelers to be up in arms about, I state again I am in no way associated with any group, I just see myself as an concerned citizen and wanting my children to have a place to be able to hike and camp.
The article in no way showed bias one way or another it just stated statistics that provided information on how off road vehicles where creating or causing damage to these protected areas. (not all, just the inconsiderate)
I also understand that this forum is created for the purpose of hard working decent law abiding citizens who share a common hobby, and a recreational past time, who are helping in the education of such issues as this and I am confused why as logical adults that some get bashed for stating a reasonable opinion, I understand that the first post that I wrote was a bit hasty and I truly apologize for any who may have been offended, but I still truly enjoy this forum, and the information gained from reading the many posts from all who a part of this family.
I understand that there will always be a difference of opinions, but understand that even though I may not agree with what is going on, at least I am willing to discuss it logically, and I hope that no hard feelings were created by simply stating my opinion………
chief77
The article in no way showed bias one way or another it just stated statistics that provided information on how off road vehicles where creating or causing damage to these protected areas. (not all, just the inconsiderate)
I also understand that this forum is created for the purpose of hard working decent law abiding citizens who share a common hobby, and a recreational past time, who are helping in the education of such issues as this and I am confused why as logical adults that some get bashed for stating a reasonable opinion, I understand that the first post that I wrote was a bit hasty and I truly apologize for any who may have been offended, but I still truly enjoy this forum, and the information gained from reading the many posts from all who a part of this family.
I understand that there will always be a difference of opinions, but understand that even though I may not agree with what is going on, at least I am willing to discuss it logically, and I hope that no hard feelings were created by simply stating my opinion………
chief77
Leper
1/2 ton status
beater_k20 said:
Sorry guy... not "every time " I go out do I find a trail I can't follow or one that needs fixin.
Talk about reading comprehension... I think you are getting me confused with the other guy.
txfiremank5
1/2 ton status
chief77 said:
maybe so, but the poll showed bias in my opinion. It didn't ask if vehicles should be allowed on select trails or anything it else.. it asked if vehicles should be "allowed" in parks period... as if to say "they" get to choose who can, and cannot use the park.
I don't have any prblem with you, chief77. So, I hope you don't feel that I'm argueing with you. I think it's pretty clear, to anyone willing to listen, what you are trying to say.
I actually don't really care for the tone this thread is starting to take, myself.
As for people calling chief77 a greenie.. who snuck in to secretly spy on the clandestine operations here the super secret fortress of CK5 ... maybe you should look to see when his join date was.. so I don't think he backtracked his way from the greenie sight ..
Unless they are using their new secret weapon of ESP ... But, if that were the case, wouldn't they know we would sway their poll ... .. or is it part of their brilliant scheme.... 
