Well my go to is welding a nut onto it. Not drilling and ez out. I think I need to take some sort of class for ez outs. I hate them. Yah they have worked a couple times. Not enough for the ez out route to be my go to
CK5
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Helllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllp! D60 broken stud
- Thread starter K85 Octane
- Start date
Well my go to is welding a nut onto it. Not drilling and ez out. I think I need to take some sort of class for ez outs. I hate them. Yah they have worked a couple times. Not enough for the ez out route to be my go to
Same here. They only seem to work on broken bolts that aren't very tight and under 1/2" dia. I had a good set years ago that came with left hand cobalt bits, half the time the bits would catch while drilling and run the broken piece out.
wetoolowdingbangow
1/2 ton status
Ill third that. Ez outs have been nothing but a waste of time for me. Sure when the stars align they can work on small stuff but when it comes to anything bigger than 1/4" they become a frustration. Its easier to just start removing material at that point.
About the only success I've had with E-Z outs is on broken pipe or fittings.like a busted off oil sending unit or home plumbing..almost every type I've tried on bolts just snap off too easily before the bolt moves..
I've learned its better to just center drill the bolt the best you can and increase the bit sizes a little at a time and praying it comes out centered enough not to have to heli-coil the hole,and you can get away with just re-tapping it,and refrain from using e-z outs..--which also puckers my sphincter,because I've snapped taps off in things more often than not too,especially blind holes..and though they sell tap extractors,I have none,and usually have to resort to torching them out--luckily they burn faster than the casting so that method works good most of the time..
The heating of the surrounding area ,NOT the busted bolt itself is important--heat the bolt up too,and you risk hardening it some maybe ,making drilling tougher-(though usually they'll soften some if you let it cool on its own and do not quench it)..heating the bolt itself will just expand it more and further prohibit its removal..I agree used improperly,heat can make it harder to have success,but in my experience its usually the last resort that works..
I can say this,busted off fasteners in blind holes is probably the #1 most frustrating things you can deal with repairing anything..and steel bolts in aluminum holes after 10+ years like everything is made from now,brings on the suck more often too...
I've learned its better to just center drill the bolt the best you can and increase the bit sizes a little at a time and praying it comes out centered enough not to have to heli-coil the hole,and you can get away with just re-tapping it,and refrain from using e-z outs..--which also puckers my sphincter,because I've snapped taps off in things more often than not too,especially blind holes..and though they sell tap extractors,I have none,and usually have to resort to torching them out--luckily they burn faster than the casting so that method works good most of the time..
The heating of the surrounding area ,NOT the busted bolt itself is important--heat the bolt up too,and you risk hardening it some maybe ,making drilling tougher-(though usually they'll soften some if you let it cool on its own and do not quench it)..heating the bolt itself will just expand it more and further prohibit its removal..I agree used improperly,heat can make it harder to have success,but in my experience its usually the last resort that works..
I can say this,busted off fasteners in blind holes is probably the #1 most frustrating things you can deal with repairing anything..and steel bolts in aluminum holes after 10+ years like everything is made from now,brings on the suck more often too...
There's some old Youtube video where a guy stick welds to one of these with some special kind of rod and when he's done the broken off stud comes right out. Seems like I've also seen one where the guy uses a torch and pretty much blows the stud out as a liquid with oxygen. Can't find them now, though.
Stomis
Professional Amateur
I'm not trying to sound like a dick but welding a nut to it will work. You just aren't doing it correctly. I'll echo the notion that I've always found easy outs to be a waste of time.
Hell the worse broken bolt I ever took out was on the egr of the trooper. It took several nuts but every time the bolt came out a tiny bit.
Persistence is key. Don't throw the towel in on welding a nut to it just because it didn't work a couple times. Do what I said and tack on top of it. Did you try shocking it with a hammer and punch?
Hell the worse broken bolt I ever took out was on the egr of the trooper. It took several nuts but every time the bolt came out a tiny bit.
Persistence is key. Don't throw the towel in on welding a nut to it just because it didn't work a couple times. Do what I said and tack on top of it. Did you try shocking it with a hammer and punch?
I have seen my buddies Dad do the torch thing with very little damage to the threads. When I say very little I mean like run a grade 8 bolt through it
Ok, first lets get one thing straight. Heating the stud will not make it harder or softer per se.
Carbon steel has a certain minimum hardness due to its composition. But you can make it a heck of a lot harder than that.
Or you can get it to its minimum hardness.
It all depends on how its cooled after heating.
I got in an argument with a guy back when I was doing some amateur blacksmithing. Finally I picked up a piece of high carbon steel.
Heated it, let it cool slowly, and could whittle it with my pocket knife. Heated it again and quenched it in cold water and it would dull a file.
Here is what you need to do. Clean up the top of the stud and see what it looks like now.
If here is a lot of weld and slag on it, and you happen to have a Dremal tool, you need to try to clean it off.
Pour some penetrating oil on, let it soak some more. Then get your self a small sharp punch, and punch it tangentially around the edge, being careful not to get into the threads.
In other words, try to back it out by tapping it counterclockwise with the punch.
Make a mark to see if it moves.
If it doesn't, don't spend a lot of time.
The only reason I suggest that, is that at least twice I have started to drill out a broken bolt that someone had been working on for a couple of days and had it try to tighten when I hit it with the drill.
All the work they had done had loosened it and they had not realized it.
If that does not work, long shot but worth a try, grab your torch again. You want to get the stud red hot if you can, and let it cool slowly.
Problem here is, the heavy cast iron around it is going to suck the heat out and make it harder.
So, get the stud red hot if you can, then keep heating. You want the iron around it hot also.
Maybe not red hot, but pretty darn warm.
Then let the stud cool slowly. Try to make sure there is no wind blowing on it. The slower the stud cools the better.
After it cools, carefully punch a good dimple in as close to the exact center as you can.
Both Lowes and Home Depot sell Titanium Nitride drill bits. ( The gold colored ones)
I have drilled lots of grade 8 studs and bolts with them.
Pour some oil on the stud so you are drilling under the oil. 30W will do, or even WD-40.
I would start with a 1/8 inch bit, or maybe one size smaller. Use a variable speed drill, or even a hand drill if you have one.
Drill very slowly, pulling the bit out every few seconds to clear the chips.
Be careful to keep the bit straight, and go slowly. It should drill fairly easily.
Once you get a fairly deep hole, you need to enlarge it. DO NOT go with a slightly larger size.
It will grab in the hole and snap.
You should jump to about a 1/4 inch and use the 1/8 as a pilot hole.
If you get that hole in there, you have a choice. Go larger, to almost the size of the stud. If the hole is centered, that might work. That would leave you with a very thin piece of tubing in the hole which could be broken out with a punch.
Or, you could try the easy out. If so, you might want to go a little bigger anyway to be able to use a larger easy out for strength.
Or, you could insert a bolt, either just find one close and drive it in, or even thread the hole.
Then, carefully weld it in place and either use it to try to back the stud out or as a start to help weld a nut to both the bolt and the stud.
BTW, before doing any welding, clean off any oil with alcohol or other non residue solvent.
Carbon steel has a certain minimum hardness due to its composition. But you can make it a heck of a lot harder than that.
Or you can get it to its minimum hardness.
It all depends on how its cooled after heating.
I got in an argument with a guy back when I was doing some amateur blacksmithing. Finally I picked up a piece of high carbon steel.
Heated it, let it cool slowly, and could whittle it with my pocket knife. Heated it again and quenched it in cold water and it would dull a file.
Here is what you need to do. Clean up the top of the stud and see what it looks like now.
If here is a lot of weld and slag on it, and you happen to have a Dremal tool, you need to try to clean it off.
Pour some penetrating oil on, let it soak some more. Then get your self a small sharp punch, and punch it tangentially around the edge, being careful not to get into the threads.
In other words, try to back it out by tapping it counterclockwise with the punch.
Make a mark to see if it moves.
If it doesn't, don't spend a lot of time.
The only reason I suggest that, is that at least twice I have started to drill out a broken bolt that someone had been working on for a couple of days and had it try to tighten when I hit it with the drill.
All the work they had done had loosened it and they had not realized it.
If that does not work, long shot but worth a try, grab your torch again. You want to get the stud red hot if you can, and let it cool slowly.
Problem here is, the heavy cast iron around it is going to suck the heat out and make it harder.
So, get the stud red hot if you can, then keep heating. You want the iron around it hot also.
Maybe not red hot, but pretty darn warm.
Then let the stud cool slowly. Try to make sure there is no wind blowing on it. The slower the stud cools the better.
After it cools, carefully punch a good dimple in as close to the exact center as you can.
Both Lowes and Home Depot sell Titanium Nitride drill bits. ( The gold colored ones)
I have drilled lots of grade 8 studs and bolts with them.
Pour some oil on the stud so you are drilling under the oil. 30W will do, or even WD-40.
I would start with a 1/8 inch bit, or maybe one size smaller. Use a variable speed drill, or even a hand drill if you have one.
Drill very slowly, pulling the bit out every few seconds to clear the chips.
Be careful to keep the bit straight, and go slowly. It should drill fairly easily.
Once you get a fairly deep hole, you need to enlarge it. DO NOT go with a slightly larger size.
It will grab in the hole and snap.
You should jump to about a 1/4 inch and use the 1/8 as a pilot hole.
If you get that hole in there, you have a choice. Go larger, to almost the size of the stud. If the hole is centered, that might work. That would leave you with a very thin piece of tubing in the hole which could be broken out with a punch.
Or, you could try the easy out. If so, you might want to go a little bigger anyway to be able to use a larger easy out for strength.
Or, you could insert a bolt, either just find one close and drive it in, or even thread the hole.
Then, carefully weld it in place and either use it to try to back the stud out or as a start to help weld a nut to both the bolt and the stud.
BTW, before doing any welding, clean off any oil with alcohol or other non residue solvent.
rampage
3/4 ton status
After drilling a deep 1/8" hole in the bolt, if you froze it with Freez-it do you think it would shrink enough to easily remove with an easy-out?
http://www.techni-tool.com/237OZ550
http://www.techni-tool.com/237OZ550
wow that much when computer duster can cheeper ? maybe not work as great ?
rampage
3/4 ton status
It's not computer duster - pretty sure that's just compressed air. It's used to cool semiconductors during design phase if it's running hot or to check if a component it the cause of an intermittent problem. It puts icicles on things instantly. The description says -60* F.
the best way to use a welder to remove a broken stud/bolt is to find a heavy washer that will just fit over the broken stud and weld the washer to the stud, THEN weld the nut to the washer. it is a bunch easier to get a good weld to a washer than the inside of a nut.
Well, got a hole drilled and tried the EZ out, broke it, but looking back I wish I could have found a larger one. None of the GOOD hardware stores are open after work, only OSH/ HD etc. The hole was ~ 1/4". I heated the casting around the stud and below it a bunch, sprayed PB Blaster and watched it suck in. Heated it again and watched it come out, bubble around the threads, and suck back in with heat removed. Pounded a punch around the hole and at the bottom of the hole. Then, pounded the EZ out into the hole. Didn't take much to break, which is a theme for EZ outs. I've broken every EZ OUT I've ever tried. I feel like I need a $200 super strong one for it to be worth even trying.
Now I've got a broken EZ OUT in the hole, luckily almost flush to the top of the stud because that's where I twisted it from, way down low.
I used some bits I bought at OSH. They had a shovel head look to them. And I tried a Craftsman Cobalt one that seemed good. I'm wishing I just spent the money on several and just drilled it out close to the threads. But now I've got a piece in the way LOL.
Now I've got a broken EZ OUT in the hole, luckily almost flush to the top of the stud because that's where I twisted it from, way down low.
I used some bits I bought at OSH. They had a shovel head look to them. And I tried a Craftsman Cobalt one that seemed good. I'm wishing I just spent the money on several and just drilled it out close to the threads. But now I've got a piece in the way LOL.
I was going to suggest heating the casting. If the bolt is stuck in the casting, putting heat to the bolt a lot of times will not help, it only serves to make the bolt larger and tighter in the hole. Sometimes you'll get it to break a rust bond loose but in reality, you're heating the wrong piece.
Welding a nut on serves to give you something to grab onto to turn it. I like the washer and then nut method from above.
With that welded on and cooled down back to room temp, heat the casting to swell it away from the stud.
Sounds like you might be well past this point.
Welding a nut on serves to give you something to grab onto to turn it. I like the washer and then nut method from above.
With that welded on and cooled down back to room temp, heat the casting to swell it away from the stud.
Sounds like you might be well past this point.
I'm bribing Rob (rdn2blzer) with 22LR ammo for his new 22. Hoping he can help me since he's local and also has a portable 220 welder.
Kert, you need to make (via special order) some U-bolt plates to run 2 of them on the passenger side. And the wider 4.5" U-bolt
Otherwise, I've got no way to make a plate that thick. 
Kert, you need to make (via special order) some U-bolt plates to run 2 of them on the passenger side. And the wider 4.5" U-bolt
Otherwise, I've got no way to make a plate that thick. 
I removed mine with EZ outs. It was broke off in the axle when I bought it. The key to success as was mentioned earlier is use the largest EZ out possible. In this case you could almost use a 1/2" EZ out. Drill the pilot hole deep then keep stepping up in bit size. HF bits are good for these jobs because you're going to break a couple small ones.
Stomis
Professional Amateur
I'm bribing Rob (rdn2blzer) with 22LR ammo for his new 22. Hoping he can help me since he's local and also has a portable 220 welder.
Kert, you need to make (via special order) some U-bolt plates to run 2 of them on the passenger side. And the wider 4.5" U-bolt
Im telling you its not going to make a difference. a 110v welder is more than capable if done properly...
fyi for others .
I have seen to many bad install jobs with bolts just a hair to long and there bottomed out under force in the tapered bottom hole .
when doing dana 60 stuff and different thickness packs with the springs always measure and check the bolt length before installing a bolt .
I have seen to many bad install jobs with bolts just a hair to long and there bottomed out under force in the tapered bottom hole .
when doing dana 60 stuff and different thickness packs with the springs always measure and check the bolt length before installing a bolt .
When I went back from two u-bolts a couple of weeks ago I spent a lot of time cleaning the holes and tapping the threads. I ended up with close to 1" of threads and then went back, screwed in the bolts without the plates on to ensure that they wouldn't bottom. I did have to cut 1/4" of the thread on one of the two bolts but I'm confident that mine are good.
That said, with most applications using studs I would suspect that a lot of the broken off studs in these housings probably were turned into the casting until they wedged in the tapered lead on the threaded hole so removal could be tough.
