Help me build an engine

[Richcz28]

First off I want to say I know very very little about diesels.

I built a 305 for my Camaro when I was 20. That is about 7 years ago now.

My current 6.2 runs great. It doesn't smoke. It is very efficient off road. I do not need an immediate solution.

I am looking to save up the parts and build something right over time. As everyone knows, the 6.2s are very slow.

I don't need to go crazy extreme, but I want to build something that can still have decent mpgs with a bit more power.

I have tried to do some reading but a lot of the other forums are full of gobbledy gook. Cough Cough argh matey. If you know of any good reads, post them up please.



Secondly, I know very very little about turbochargers.

Right now there is a turbo setup for sale very close to me from a 6.5 that is $250. Is this a good place to start collecting parts? Should I be holding off for a deal on a Banks setup?

Where would you guys start? Should I be starting with a particular block and heads? I don't want the most expensive, I want the best. I do want to stay with the V8.

 

[KirsL]

Well first thing you have to decide is how much you want to spend. If you rebuilt a 305 in the past then you can handle building a 6.2/6.5. It has some things that deal with being a diesel but nothing too crazy.

Now as to making more power, your budget really sets the tone for how much you'll make. That being said I'll tell you about the engine that I've built for my truck. Its a 6.5 bored .020 over with 18:1 pistons, head studs, 6.5 heads with diamond precups, DB2 with .033 plungers. Serpentine belt setup with dual T-stats, forged crank, fluidamper, and a 6.5 turbo setup with a GM8 turbo. I'm going to be switching out to an HX-40 turbo that I got off a 8.3 cummins at work that was being scraped will make it run vastly better. While the truck isn't currently running for a variety of reasons. I can tell you that that setup will run extremely well with your setup. My truck will easily smoke the tires well into second gear and under wot chrip them going into third. Which is pretty good with 35's. When driven sanely getting 15 mpg in town and 18 highway was normal. That's doing 75 on the highway too.

Now all that was done at different times but if you did all that in one shot and paid to have it built, it would cost a **** load of money. If you buy parts over time and decide what you really need/want it can be done relatively cheap. As for good reads and info check out TheTruckStop.US. There's some guys on there doing some crazy things with these engines. Lots of good info too.

The banks setup has some good parts is pretty expensive if found whole. A complete 6.5 setup for only $250 I'd grab since that's pretty cheap.

Any other questions just ask or even pm me. I'm more then happy to help.

 

[longbedder]

To start with, a diesel without a turbo is just an oil pump

The Banks turbo setups are decent - my pickup truck (Banks turbo on a 6.2) routinely runs 70-75 on the highway no problem with 35" tires, 4.10 gears, and overdrive. I can also pull a fair mountain grade without downshifting. The downside to the Banks setup is that it's not wastegated, and as such is not as efficient as a wastegated turbo, only provides peak boost at peak RPM, and has a relatively narrow powerband. The great part is that the kits are quite literally bolt-on and there aren't any fitment issues. I found mine used cheap.

The GM factory turbos are all wastegated and are more efficient, have better contribution at midrange RPM, and have wider powerbands. They also run cooler exhaust gas temps. The problem is that they don't necessarily retrofit easily into the older body style trucks because of turbo placement (A/C evaporator box interference) and downpipe geometry (frame interference). It's not insurmountable, it's just not as easy.

Once you have the plumbing in place for either system, putting a different turbo on to alter performance is fairly simple - you just find a turbo with the right flange and bolt patterns and it will work. Whether a given turbo works well or not for a given application is a detailed discussion...

 

[blazinzuk]

I think the basis of the build should be a newer 6.5 block as I understand they have stronger webbing and the heads don't crack as much.

Beyond that I would build it pretty much exactly like KirsL

 

[KirsL]

The banks setup and even the GM turbo sets are good when used on a stock engine. Running a different turbo makes them a whole different animal though. I'm going with the HX-40 because I got it for free . There is another turbo that seems pretty popular its called the A-team turbo, its a bolt on setup and most report better mileage with it over the GM turbo. It is a non-waste gated turbo so it does like the upper rpm range but I keep hearing really good things about it.

As for a block, yes the newer the better. Ones from GEP, think H1 Hummer, or one actually cast by International. But don't count out an older block, if a older block is crack free it will most likely remain that way. I actually have a 6.2, bored .020 over, that's from a CUCV that's crack free and I trust it to stay that way. I'm hoping to save it for another project but I might be willing to sell it if you really wanted it. Would come with all the various parts to make a long block. It would need all the bearings, pistons, gaskets and such.

It really comes down to what you want for it and how much to spend.

 

[Richcz28]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I should also mention I want to keep my dual alternators and 24v system.

I also don't want to "roll coal" or whatever people say. My truck burns clean now and hardly ever smokes unless I really get on it, and then it will puff just a little. I want to keep it that way. I'm not as much worried about burning tires, just making towing and driving much easier. Of course, I'm not opposed to having that extra power.

I like the idea of running the gm setup and being able to change turbos out in the future if I'm unhappy with performance. I imagine I could build the long block to be capable of handling more boost but not use it to it's full potential?

Is there a way to tell a block that is cast by International? Are we talking 6.2 or 6.5?

My 305 cost around $2700 with machine work and parts. I would expect this engine to cost a little more, but I want to spread the cost over time. Realistically with parts gathering, machine work, and research I expect it to be about a 2 year build.

 

[KirsL]

The basic long block is the same between 6.2s and 6.5. So you can use any accessory setup that you want/have. Just make sure when you get a new waterpump that's you get the correct rotation. V-belts are clockwise if I remember. The same holds true for the injection pump, its the soliond part that's either 12 or 24 volts.

I would definitely build the long block to be able to take more power if you decide to in the future. Doing things for better life of the engine are always good to do. A block cast by International will have to two diamonds cast into the valley under the intake. It would be a 6.5 too. Otherwise get the casting numbers and someone will be able to tell you if its a good year block or not.

Mine even with all the mods done smokes very little. Mostly just a light haze when wot, which I consider normal for a non-emissions diesel. The GM setup isn't bad by any means, just limited for big power. Works good for a DD though.
Heath diesel actually makes different cams for these engines but other then what I've read I have no experience with the to say how good they are.

Peninsular diesel is a good place for parts and info. They're a little expensive, but they have really good customer service. Cost be ready to spend more then that, unless you find really good deals on stuff. I'd say 4000 would be a safe bet if you had to buy new pistons and such. Its do able for less just depends where you want to save money.

 

[longbedder]

I imagine I could build the long block to be capable of handling more boost but not use it to it's full potential?

Just an FYI, running a 6.2/6.5 block at anything over about 10 pounds of boost is asking for trouble - the bottom end is simply not designed to handle any greater load and live very long.

 

[KirsL]

Just an FYI, running a 6.2/6.5 block at anything over about 10 pounds of boost is asking for trouble - the bottom end is simply not designed to handle any greater load and live very long.

That is true and while I do agree with it there's more to it then just the boost number. The GM turbo is good to about 10 then its out of its efficacy range. Plus for every pound of boost it makes, it take almost 2 pounds to drive it. That's what really kills these engines is super high drive pressures. Hence why I would reconmend running a different turbo. There is a main stud girddle too that is a good idea to run. When I get home I'll have to post some pictures of mine wheb I built it.

 

[swettysblazer]

Rich, I know you may shun me for this, but I would seriously consider an LS swap. I know you said you wanted to keep the 24v system, but I think for your goals, even a stock 5.3 would suit your needs. I know you're a diesel purist though, but I figured I would just throw that out there if you haven't thought about it.

 

[Richcz28]

Rich, I know you may shun me for this, but I would seriously consider an LS swap. I know you said you wanted to keep the 24v system, but I think for your goals, even a stock 5.3 would suit your needs. I know you're a diesel purist though, but I figured I would just throw that out there if you haven't thought about it.

Not going to happen. I can let my truck run all night to heat my camper and I only burn maybe 2 gallons.

Also, my winch electrics are 24v and so is the power inverter.

 

[swettysblazer]

That's what I figured, like I said just didn't know if you had thought about it.

 

[KirsL]

LS engines are a great family of engines. They do run good and can make stupid amounts of power. But in my mind they're a "ME too!" Engine. Its the first thing everyone wants to swap in anymore. Which is cool, but its fun to be different.

 

[herkdriver007]

I love my little 6.2TD

 

[swettysblazer]

LS engines are a great family of engines. They do run good and can make stupid amounts of power. But in my mind they're a "ME too!" Engine. Its the first thing everyone wants to swap in anymore. Which is cool, but its fun to be different.

True, I see your point here. Besides, I think Rich would rather walk than drive a gasser

 

[Richcz28]

True, I see your point here. Besides, I think Rich would rather walk than drive a gasser

Haha not true at all. I don't hardly know anything about diesels, besides the fact that in my brief time driving them they run way more reliably and efficiently than gas.

 

[Richcz28]

I may go look at the turbo setup tomorrow. It's only 15 minutes from my house. Is there anything I need to look for besides obvious damage? What parts would a complete setup consist of?

Intake
Upper Intake
Exhaust Manifold
Turbo
....?

 

[Richcz28]

I picked up the turbo setup. I got it for $200. It doesn't have any hardware. It's just what you see.

Now that I have the whirly gig, where should I go next? Are there reman bare blocks for sale that would save me money on machine work or do I start scouring for that international block? What heads are optimal?

What do you guys think about this engine?

http://hartford.craigslist.org/pts/4272014495.html

I'm afraid I started a terrible domino effect

 

[herkdriver007]

Why not just put it on the motor you have?
You need a crossover pipe and a downpipe.... And a supply for the turbo oil system. Egt and boost gauges

Sweet score on all the parts for the price.

 

[swettysblazer]

Let me see what I come up with for blocks at work. I'll let you know tomorrow.