^^ this is not easy. I had a friend hand it to me as i stood on passenger side frame, to set mine recently.
Worked out ok. No leaks.
Worked out ok. No leaks.
CK5
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Intake manifold gaskets
- Thread starter JT88K5
- Start date
I had to grow an extra testicle to get the manifold onto Chloe
My son did it a couple of times when he was only 16. He swapped engines in a couple of C4500 trucks. Flip hood amd removable dog house.
He did the first one twice, after failing to read the torque spec correctly.
FYI, don't use ft/lbs in place of in/lbs..
I used the permatex red tacky gasket adhesive
on the head side around both intake and water ports, initially and the second time. To remove it, carb and choke cleaner, keeping it wet for a bit, seemed to dissolve the adhesive or at least make it gooey and easy to remove. Red stuff is an adhesive. Just like Frieburgers trick on the valve cover gaskets with contact cement.
Also used some ultra black around the water ports on the intake side. This method definitely seals the intake and water ports. The gasket ripped in half around the water ports when I removed the intake.
I did not check torque settings. I got it as tight as I could using 1/4 inch ratchet with one hand doing several passes from inside to outside. With this pf4 intake, I decline to remove the fuel rails and injectors, which is the only way I could use a torque wrench, and even then there is one bolt I can’t get a socket on. Meant to grind some clearance before I set it in. Looks like I’ll have another chance at that.
I felt good setting the intake with the top side creeper. Especially with using the fuel rails to hold on to it.
As someone mentioned, I was thinking of putting down a thin layer of right stuff on both surfaces, then run a bead on the block side and set it in. Any cons on trying that?
on the head side around both intake and water ports, initially and the second time. To remove it, carb and choke cleaner, keeping it wet for a bit, seemed to dissolve the adhesive or at least make it gooey and easy to remove. Red stuff is an adhesive. Just like Frieburgers trick on the valve cover gaskets with contact cement.
Also used some ultra black around the water ports on the intake side. This method definitely seals the intake and water ports. The gasket ripped in half around the water ports when I removed the intake.
I did not check torque settings. I got it as tight as I could using 1/4 inch ratchet with one hand doing several passes from inside to outside. With this pf4 intake, I decline to remove the fuel rails and injectors, which is the only way I could use a torque wrench, and even then there is one bolt I can’t get a socket on. Meant to grind some clearance before I set it in. Looks like I’ll have another chance at that.
I felt good setting the intake with the top side creeper. Especially with using the fuel rails to hold on to it.
As someone mentioned, I was thinking of putting down a thin layer of right stuff on both surfaces, then run a bead on the block side and set it in. Any cons on trying that?
did mine standing on the drag link with rad in but front of engine bare . this was on a 2002 c3500-hd 15k gvw truck .
i had trans out with motor swap so i did intake before trans back in and was able to verify good china wall seal front and back .
I actually ordered that stuff for you right after we spoke, which was actually on Saturday afternoon, you must of had several beverages!OK, in Summits defense, they sent me what I ordered , which was just delivered.
I forgot I talked to Heath@volcano last friday ( was a few drinks in to Good Friday) and asked him to send me what I received yesterday. I ordered from Summit Wednesday after talking to Heath since I didn’t think he got my CC # and didn’t ask for my card when I talked to him (he was in the shop) so I didn’t think he was going to ship until I called him back…. And I neglected to read email.
Kudos to Heath for doing business the old fashion way! Never in todays world would I expect to receive merchandise before it was already paid for.
I was secretly hoping my distributor would get it out to you so you would have it sooner, but I didn't want to promise that since I couldn't guarantee it. I know how it is to be waiting for parts so I wasn't going to wait for payment, you were a previous customer already. Unfortunately being Memorial Day weekend they didn't ship it until Tuesday, which is why you got it Thursday. Sorry, perhaps I should of called you back instead of just e-mailing the invoice but I was understanding you wanted exactly that.
As for right stuff vs Permatex Ultra RTV, I use Ultra Black or Ultra Gray depending on the block material (just for color). From my experience it works great and no issues. Everything has to be clean and dry with either sealer or it won't stick. The right stuff does work great too, however, if you ever have to remove the manifold for service or maintenance you have to pry against somewhere you don't want, to the point you feel like you will damage the intake or heads to get it off. Then it's a real PITA to scrape clean too, wastes a lot of time. The Ultra RTV seals great and is much easier to remove and replace when needed.
So guys, use that info as you see fit whether you think the right stuff is the right stuff for you. I continue to use Ultra RTV. I do not use the regular RTV because the Permatex Ultra is high temp RTV, and as a plus it doesn't smell like noxious fumes just applying it.
As for my method, everything needs to be clean and dry, I do a dry fit and make sure I have the correct gap at the end rails. I also check bolt lengths and look to see what bolts need thread sealer if they go into the valley area or coolant passage. Sometimes too long of bolt can hit a pushrod, so watch for that too. Then I put a bead of Ultra RTV on both ends, ~3/16 bead, then I smear a thin film around the water ports at both ends and connect that with a smear to the end bead.
If I have very thin port dividers such as race or ported heads, or boost, I may put a thin film of RTV around the intake ports too, if so head side only usually.
I put the film on both sides of water jackets.
Then I be sure to set the manifold straight down onto the bolt holes. I try my best not to move it around much to upset the bead of RTV or move the gasket out of place. I do make trace marks where the gasket goes if needed so I can tell if it moved.
Then install the bolts and snug it down good and tight, not strip the threads bubba tight, but tight.
I also re-snug them after the first few heat cycles when cool again. Once they stop moving, you are good to go.
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I like the tacky gasket adhesive on the head side. Once you put the gasket on and align it, the gasket doesn’t move. It will never leak on the head side of the port. ( Gaaarronteed, as my favorite cajun cook Justin Wilson used to say). Removing the gasket will result in peeling it off in layers until you get to the surface of the head.
Just to give an update. Felt real good after resetting the intake. Good bead of gasket maker front and back. After getting everything back together… fired right up and immediately… and died. Gave some pedal l, it fired and was running miserably. WTF. No shit, first thing that ran through my mind was I didn’t pull the rag I had stuffed into the intake. Turns out I didn’t. .
After checking firing order and fuel injector connections. I pulled the throttle body. I have a camera on a 20ft wire and started checking the intake ports through the intake. Sure enough I found my rag in #1 intake.
What a freakin kick in the teeth. I tried removing the rag, no dice. I assume I have at the least… ****ed up a valve and or bent a pushrod. I’m sooooo pissed off at myself. It burns my ass… I was so close to getting it back on the road with no leaks and a good power plant.
For sale- 88K5.
After checking firing order and fuel injector connections. I pulled the throttle body. I have a camera on a 20ft wire and started checking the intake ports through the intake. Sure enough I found my rag in #1 intake.
What a freakin kick in the teeth. I tried removing the rag, no dice. I assume I have at the least… ****ed up a valve and or bent a pushrod. I’m sooooo pissed off at myself. It burns my ass… I was so close to getting it back on the road with no leaks and a good power plant.
For sale- 88K5.
I would assume the worst as well, but take some time to find a flexible grabber tool to start fishing the pieces of the rag out. Probably will have to rotate the crank some to open the valve. Will the camera fit in through the spark plug hole? Look in that way too.
If you can get all of the pieces out, then check the valve with air pressure.
If you can get all of the pieces out, then check the valve with air pressure.
As frustrating as it is take a little time away before ya go all the way in on selling it - in the overall picture this is just an annoying hiccup.
The good thing to takeaway is that you won’t ever forget to check the intake rag ( or use duct tape over the intake ) again - just trying to shed a little sunshine on a crappy situation.
Don’t give up on the whole truck over this - might regret it later…
The good thing to takeaway is that you won’t ever forget to check the intake rag ( or use duct tape over the intake ) again - just trying to shed a little sunshine on a crappy situation.
Don’t give up on the whole truck over this - might regret it later…
I hope he was joking, that's how I took it.
I do stupid shit like occasionally and when I do I walk away for a while.
Once for a year.
I have enough projects that I leave one and jump on another
I once a saw big block chev, suck in a T shirt at speed. It bent a few valves required some valve guide replacement. Never ends well…
That was a long time ago
That was a long time ago
Sounds to me like a good excuse for a head upgrade, maybe a cam, you know, just to "fix" the problem. I'm sure the wife will understand since you are so mad at yourself, you got to "fix" it to feel good again.
On another note, can you rotate the engine over by hand until that rocker arm is opening the valve and then try to remove the rag?
Now we’re talk’n !
Make all this sorrow, frustration , effort and expense worth it and come out with far better power in the end.
And keep in mind that sometimes it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission - just say’n.
Rag ain’t coming out. Rotated until the valve was open, but the valve is already as open is it gets from the rag being sucked in. Plug hole #1. First pic is before I started. At one point I did get another few inches to come out. (What she said)
Last pic is lifting the lifter to illustrate how open the valve appears to be. Debating on pulling the engine vs trying to pull the head with the engine out. I’m still pissed about the bonehead move.
Last pic is lifting the lifter to illustrate how open the valve appears to be. Debating on pulling the engine vs trying to pull the head with the engine out. I’m still pissed about the bonehead move.
I'd just pull the head, the bottom end and other head are likely OK.
I like your humor in this frustrating time!
And I also share your frustration as I have "been there, done that" in other situations.
As much as it sucks to pull a head over a radiator support, I agree with @folkenheath that you should only need to pull the one head.
I was able to extricate the rag by pushing down (ok, maybe it was prying, but gently) on the intake valve enough to release the rag.
The valve seems to have fully closed. I didn’t leave any marks on the roller or the top of the valve/spring.
I can’t see much inside of the cylinder with the camera I have. The 90% attachment doesn’t give me a clear view of the piston top. With the straight view it looks like the valves are seated. Focal length is about 2 inches and the piston is down.
Contemplating next steps. Thinking I should crank it with coil unplugged and see if makes noises. If I don’t hear anything abnormal then put the valve cover back on and fire it up.
The valve seems to have fully closed. I didn’t leave any marks on the roller or the top of the valve/spring.
I can’t see much inside of the cylinder with the camera I have. The 90% attachment doesn’t give me a clear view of the piston top. With the straight view it looks like the valves are seated. Focal length is about 2 inches and the piston is down.
Contemplating next steps. Thinking I should crank it with coil unplugged and see if makes noises. If I don’t hear anything abnormal then put the valve cover back on and fire it up.
Good picture of intake valve going down the intake port
Pictures of piston top and valves. I am not seeing any valve contact marks. Opinions? Last picture has intake closed exhaust open.
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