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Into the rabbit hole of EFI tuning. ( Speed density/VE )

So ive been managing to get some test drives in lately, since chores on the property have kept me real busy for the past few months. Ive made a few changes so far. The 4l60e i have is from an astro van, so i know the torque converter isnt nearly the right one i should be running, but for now its what i got while i get a proper 07+ 4l60e built. The trans shift points were pretty messed up from the go. Not sure if those are the stock gm ones that holley generated, or what, but i would be in second instantly and by the time you know it im in third or fourth. I got the 1-2 shift nice, as it now kicks into second with good partial throttle around 2500 rpm and 20 MPH. Second to third i had stretched out way too long and now im working its way down to a shorter transition drive after drive to find the sweet spot. 3-4 I made it so that it doesnt really want to kick into fourth unless im on the highway cruising near 55/65 mph.

My tps data shows that im never really over 40%, unless im purposely trying to go fast. That data really helps narrow down where in the graphs i need to edit.

My closed loop comp is around 4-5% on a drive so im thinking its time to turn the learning down from 45% to a much lower number while i smooth out the rest by hand and just leave the CL compensation on for minor adjustments.

Im going to try and dial in the timing today. Realized i had the idle timing a bit too high at idle, and didnt leave a buffer so i think its hunting sometimes when it needs more torque at idle. Read that its not uncommon to pull 10* out of it from MBT so the engine has lots of room to get torque if accessories are turned on ect. at idle.


The engine still sounds like a sewing machine sorta but apparently thats normal with cam swaps and springs.. Is that due to the fact that the lash is set in the pushrods? If the engines eating itself, itll be a great reason to stroke it :whistle:

Another thing im trying to set up is the knock sensors in the holley system. online searching for the Khz of the stock knock sensor and then tuning the sensitivity of it by the data of the knock level in the logs. Holley says it shouldnt have an audible knock unless it reads over 80%. I have the odd spot where it reads 100% but its only a blip or so and it wax while driving and i didnt hear a knock. Im assuming ill have to do this test while parked to hear properly.

I sent my warranty info to holley for the handheld.., so until i hear back ill be dragging my laptop with me everytime. Which is good for now but hoping i dont need to in the future.
Im thankful i put in seperate trans temp, oil pressure and coolant gauges!
 
These are the same injectors im running. I was un aware that the holley system seems to always command 60 psi of fuel pressure, so im at about 10% duty cycle of the injectors.. lots left to go. I was thinking i would run these at a lower psi until i need what these injectors offer. I also am contemplating using e85 on them but the only station that sells it here on the island has been tested by a few, and its more like e65... I dont like the idea of tuning the engine for a fuel that might be from e65-e85..? These injectors are listed in my holley software, I can give you the info it gave me for them if you need. I beleive its about 49.5 lb/hr @ 60 psi.
I managed to get the injector data found and in my tune file.

Right now I've been dail driving mine for work, and getting it dialed in slightly with some help from a few guys on here.
I think it's doing alright now.
But mine seems pretty sluggish to me anywhere below about 3000 rpm. Which shouldn't be really since I ran a mild cam. :dunno:
All I've really played with are shift points and timing. Just letting the fuel tune go off of learn. I'm still at 45%, not sure when I should lower that.

Been running sweet and sounding good lately though :waytogo:
 
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I could be wrong, but once you have the timing set close to where you think it should be. You can then go into your fueling table and see what the target AFR is, vs the commanded AFR and adjust the VE values with it running, untill you get the AFR you want. Actual AFR / Target AFR = lambda , and the amount of correction needed in a % of either under, or over fueling. These adjustments can be made by changing the VE values in each section by the respected %.

Maybe its sluggish because its rich? I havent driven mine enough to really pin point where its " get up n go " point is. Only have 3-4 runs in it so far. My engine is a stock ly5 with a stage 2 cam, 217/227 i believe at .527 lift. Assuming yours is around the same with a mild cam. I didnt go much higher on the lift because i looked at the flow bench numbers for my heads, and after .550 lift, they dont flow a ton more air without porting.
 
Here's some photos I took to help understand the ve table better without driving and live data.

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My truck also idles in the zone 2 area.. not sure if that's because of the cam being more aggressive and not idling at 550 or so, but I'm sure when I take some timing out it'll maybe settle down a bit. My MAP at idle is a tad high.

I may have adjusted it to the higher map reading.. not remembering that the higher the number, the LOWER the vacuum...:doah::whistle:
 
2 and 4 sound like where I need work. But that article about zone 2 might as well be in Swahili to me. I have no idea what they're saying.
I did at least figure out what they mean by lambda. Lol

My cam has more lift but less duration than yours.
 
I didn't take a photo of the whole description but I can for zone 2-4 if that would help you any.
 
No, I don't think I'd understand what they're talking about anyway.
The zone is the only part I get. How to do anything to change that zone is kind of over my head still.
 
No, I don't think I'd understand what they're talking about anyway.
The zone is the only part I get. How to do anything to change that zone is kind of over my head still.
I would like to learn how to change that zone, but I think it has to do with map.
 
No, I don't think I'd understand what they're talking about anyway.
The zone is the only part I get. How to do anything to change that zone is kind of over my head still.
You can literally go in and change the timing or fuel in any of those cells with the laptop. But with the handheld, you can only change the 3 cells up top in "simple" mode. Which is Idle, Cruise, and WOT. And then it uses those 3 values to interpolate the "target" A/F ration and timing for the entire chart. Then it learns to reach those targets.

With a laptop, the tuning is limitless. You shouldn't need a laptop with your cam.
 
I've had the laptop hooked up, and looked at a lot of that.
I still think there's tuning to be done.
There's something too doggy about the normal driving range. The 4.8 I had seemed better power wise in the normal driving range.
Same rear gear and tire size actually even. Every other LS I've driven has actually. Basically the zone 4 area.
Above 3500 this definitely has more than the others. But normal driving feels weaker for some reason I can't grasp.
 
I've had the laptop hooked up, and looked at a lot of that.
I still think there's tuning to be done.
There's something too doggy about the normal driving range. The 4.8 I had seemed better power wise in the normal driving range.
Same rear gear and tire size actually even. Every other LS I've driven has actually. Basically the zone 4 area.
Above 3500 this definitely has more than the others. But normal driving feels weaker for some reason I can't grasp.
have you data logged any drives?
 
In simple mode, Zone 4 for would be mostly your "cruise" fuel and timing, crossed with a little of your idle fuel. But keep in mind, since it ramps the timing, the idle timing and total timing both can change that area.

However, if your tune is close, I believe your issue may be your cam timing. Having 1 degree of cam advance is not good for low end torque. You could change that with a multiple keyway timing chain and advance the cam another 4 degrees, I'd rather have 5 degrees than 3(especially 1) for a heavy vehicle.

I don't know of hardly any cams where they are installed straight up short of a very high RPM race motor, heck I have 4 degrees of advance in my 7500 RPM big block, and 1 degree is pretty much straight up.

Take your laptop, and try more or less timing or fuel in the area you feel it's lacking, if you have the laptop hooked up while some drives, you will see the oval floating around, and see exactly where on the chart it is running at that exact moment.
 
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