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Just a few thoughts on BB'10...
- Thread starter jms
- Start date
I am more than willing to be on a committee if you think i'm knowledgeable enough. lol If i can help let me know 
385872ac-e1bf-4039-89ea-bac355d9f66b
1.03.01
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1.03.01
TDAWG1
1/2 ton status
This is the kind of thing I want to avoid. I know what you are saying has some logic but realistically it is dishonest because we really are all gathering together with the purpose of running the trails at the same time. While the impact on each individual trail may be less that 25 people, we are still bringing in 120+ people on a given day that likely would not have been in the Moab area otherwise. And just a point of clarification, it's the number of people they are really concerned with not the number vehicles. Our permit fee is based on a per person per day fee regardless of the number of vehicles.
There are other reasons to register as an official event besides just following the rules. By submitting our attendance numbers to the BLM it gives them a more accurate picture of the usage of the trails in the Moab area. If no one ever registers with the BLM for their events, then organizations like SUWA can say things like this:
and get away with it when the reality may be way more than 7% of the visitors are of the ORV variety. Without the data to disprove the referenced survey, how can anyone argue against it.
I feel the more cooperative we are with the BLM the more cooperative they will be with us. And so far they have been very helpful and cooperative with the permitting process.
I appreciate your perspective and I understand where you're coming from, but I like that we can come into Moab and be proud of our event and not hide hoping no one figures out we are all there together.
Very True I just threw it out there But yes I agree. But we need to find away to Tweak what may be a huge PRoblem in the Future. LIKE this year one wierd thing to me was The last few years the Pritchett run was HUGE and Took forever because of Breakage and vehicles that probably didnt belong. It seemed at one point this year I heard not aloud to run that trail unless you had these things... Result Not very many Rigs on trail Which is not what we want either. Also the Trifecta was the oposite which is like it was three years ago So I guess it can happen anywhere. LOL Seems we have a year to Brainstorm either way I hope everyone eventhose that Broke and those that turned around had a great time. I know I did. I also know that I too showed up with a Broken Rig thought I could try some small trail. But once again thought better of it. Luckly for me the ORD family stepped in again and helped me be able to get at least one day on the trail.
I know the desire to just go to BB can mean a lot it does to me every year and my Family. Everysince that first rainy year we went and Hung off Hells Revenge we have developed some Lasting and Loving Relationships and an Awesome Family Fun Event. So all that matters is that this continues to Grow and that we all be smart enough to realize our own as well as our vehicle limitations and not be afraid to be told NO thats not a good Idea or Not this time Hey how about a Ride instead. Though people may want the I was Repaired by a Watson or Rescued by Storm Trooper Badge. WE should all make it our own responsabllitly to make sure our Rig is ready or to make sure our buddys rig is capable of a Trail We all know the Trails by know and hopefully realize how Much they can CHANGE over the year.
OK Im done for now. THank you all for an Awesome Time.
TDAWG1
1/2 ton status
lucky dog!!! Lol
TDAWG1
1/2 ton status
I too will Help where I can Scott and I too am awaiting the Voice the the Brandon and the Troop.
Jason4x4
1/2 ton status
all i got to say is, WOO HOO!!
That's exactly the problem. It's difficult to get that kind of information across.
Case in point: I've personally seen a stock FJ Cruiser drive Golden Spike, including Double Whammy on the stock BFG AT tires. See the pictures of that in the magazine, and everyone thinks "... well, if a stock Toyota yuppie truck-wannabe can do this, the my K5 will be laughing at that, and it can't be that hard....".
Well, the driver in the FJC on that day was very knowledgeable of the truck and it's capabilities, and knew the trail and its obstacles very well, and knew precisely what to do in any moment, including tricking the computer, and he made it look easy. But that's the part that people don't see, and therefore they don't take that into their judgment.
Flip side: of course, if you never drive anything challenging, how will you figure out what you and your truck can do...
By the way, I met Stephen on the oil filter run. That one clearly goes into the WTF category...
Scott and all
Some of what I have to say will be done in email with Scott as it's not info for the public.
However, I had one of the better times this year at BB. Greenday was a complete Charlie Foxtrot on Friday. BUT, the way the trail lays out the chances to bail out were frequent. I then got to do Upper Helldorado which is quite possibly my favorite trail anywhere.
Saturday, we were honestly doing good on the Trifecta. There was one minor hold up with a driveshaft and output yoke that was solved with the tools and skills in the group. The oil filter deal is a freak accident kind of thing. It happens, we had the ability to take care of it and all in all spirits remained high all the way through. BTW I put over 50 miles on the car that day. Where Keith broke down to my tow rig in just over an hour, then an hour and five minutes back in including unloading at the parking lot (I drank a cool frosty beverage there with my Lunch
)
I do think that Michael made the right choice to turn around and I only wish for the sake of the rest of the crew that they would have followed him.
Chris, FYI I was done with the trail the first time and at the camp ground at 4:45, you guys must have been slow in Pritchett since I ran way more trail and was back :45 min after you.
Scott I have serious work obligations this week but remind me next week and I will get with you.
I for one have to keep in mind that my style of wheeling and vehicle are quite different than most of the guys at BB. Everyone has to learn somewhere, I did, my brother did and so have the rest of you guys. We need to keep offering an environment that helps to teach sound wheeling practices, care and respect for what we are driving on and through and also what we project to the rest of the world.
My largest complaint for this post is that there was one blazer with two men in the front and a kid riding in the back seat on the trifecta run. The man in the passenger seat didn't wear a seat belt at all and was jumping in and out of the truck all the time, moving or not. I can only hope that the kid in the back seat can be taught how stupid that was without watching the guy win a Darwin award.
Some of what I have to say will be done in email with Scott as it's not info for the public.
However, I had one of the better times this year at BB. Greenday was a complete Charlie Foxtrot on Friday. BUT, the way the trail lays out the chances to bail out were frequent. I then got to do Upper Helldorado which is quite possibly my favorite trail anywhere.
Saturday, we were honestly doing good on the Trifecta. There was one minor hold up with a driveshaft and output yoke that was solved with the tools and skills in the group. The oil filter deal is a freak accident kind of thing. It happens, we had the ability to take care of it and all in all spirits remained high all the way through. BTW I put over 50 miles on the car that day. Where Keith broke down to my tow rig in just over an hour, then an hour and five minutes back in including unloading at the parking lot (I drank a cool frosty beverage there with my Lunch
)I do think that Michael made the right choice to turn around and I only wish for the sake of the rest of the crew that they would have followed him.
Chris, FYI I was done with the trail the first time and at the camp ground at 4:45, you guys must have been slow in Pritchett since I ran way more trail and was back :45 min after you.
Scott I have serious work obligations this week but remind me next week and I will get with you.
I for one have to keep in mind that my style of wheeling and vehicle are quite different than most of the guys at BB. Everyone has to learn somewhere, I did, my brother did and so have the rest of you guys. We need to keep offering an environment that helps to teach sound wheeling practices, care and respect for what we are driving on and through and also what we project to the rest of the world.
My largest complaint for this post is that there was one blazer with two men in the front and a kid riding in the back seat on the trifecta run. The man in the passenger seat didn't wear a seat belt at all and was jumping in and out of the truck all the time, moving or not. I can only hope that the kid in the back seat can be taught how stupid that was without watching the guy win a Darwin award.
As much as I hate to bring up the "trail cop" thing.....I spent alot of time last year before I went making sure I had:
4 tow points 2 front 2 rear and/plus a working winch rated for my rig
a tow strap
lockers and tires sized for the trails I wanted to run.
This was the manditory minimum stuff stated in the registration packet to go on a run..
I made sure I had it because I was absolutely scared to death that the trail leader was gonna look at my rig on the morning of day 1 and tell me " sorry, you cant go you only have 2 tow points"
yet when I got out there I saw rigs with no place to hook a strap to at all... and some of those ended up being the ones who needed them the most.
I just think if as a group we were really bad cop about making sure these minimum things were enforced. it would really make things easier in the end for everyone.
4 tow points 2 front 2 rear and/plus a working winch rated for my rig
a tow strap
lockers and tires sized for the trails I wanted to run.
This was the manditory minimum stuff stated in the registration packet to go on a run..
I made sure I had it because I was absolutely scared to death that the trail leader was gonna look at my rig on the morning of day 1 and tell me " sorry, you cant go you only have 2 tow points"
yet when I got out there I saw rigs with no place to hook a strap to at all... and some of those ended up being the ones who needed them the most.
I just think if as a group we were really bad cop about making sure these minimum things were enforced. it would really make things easier in the end for everyone.
Well, we don't have an accepted SOP for enforcement of the requirements.
Doing a tech inspection at the meeting spot on the day of a trail run is problematic, because it takes time and will inevitably lead to delays. But more importantly, if a truck were to be turned down for a particular run, it takes their opportunity away to join e.g. an easier run that day for which the truck would be qualified. By the time such a decision is made, chances are that there is no way to reach the meeting spot of the easier run on time. That's also not something we want.
The 'other' Moab outing I go to every year does a tech inspection before the trail runs. It'll get you a color sticker on the left headlamp (or not
), and that's the only thing the trail leader needs to check - different colors for each level of build. They are thorough - I got to change the draglink one year because one end was moving too much for their taste when they checked the steering. But it takes a lot of time, effort, and people to do this, and it takes the acceptance of all that attend the event.
I've been wondering what they do if people can't make it on the first day when they do the tech inspections. Say for the sake of discussion we scheduled a tech insp for Thursday and someone couldn't make until Friday, how is that normally handled. Or is it just not an option, everyone must be there the first day.
I think in order to pull that off we'd have to eliminate the Friday runs in lieu of doing inspections before having the BBQ. Perhaps then extend the event into Monday to get 3 days of trail runs.
I think in order to pull that off we'd have to eliminate the Friday runs in lieu of doing inspections before having the BBQ. Perhaps then extend the event into Monday to get 3 days of trail runs.
mrdrinksalil
1/2 ton status
I just wanna chime in with a few comments real quick...
1st and foremost I am very jealous of all that got to attend BB this year and years past. Yall are a long way from Atlanta, GA. Its almost hard to read this BB stuff because I want to be there with a passion!
Feb 2009 GeorgiaGabe (35 spline outer tons and 42's), myself, a yota (Built D44's and 36's), and a Rubicon (44's and 36's) all made the trip to Moab. I rode with Gabe and we did not take my truck for several reasons ($$, No Tow Rig, I didn't think it was tested enough anyway). If I remember correctly we ran 3-4 days in Moab and the last at BFE running all the popular stuff from the trifecta to Pritchett and Upper Helldarado.
Here on the East Coast we are more familiar with smaller parks, mostly privately owned. Point and shoot, High HP buggies are getting popular. There isn't really anywhere that’s extremely difficult to get back to the tow rigs/camp.
The MAIN thoughts I had leaving Moab were "I'm coming back as soon as possible" and "My truck will not go to Moab with a Carburetor and without 4:1 or low range or lower" (btw im still 42's, 4.56's and a TH400/NP205)
We were fortunate to make it through the week with virtually NO breakage but I would be hesitant to go back without a group that I knew I could count on if we were to get into a bad situation.
1st and foremost I am very jealous of all that got to attend BB this year and years past. Yall are a long way from Atlanta, GA. Its almost hard to read this BB stuff because I want to be there with a passion!
Feb 2009 GeorgiaGabe (35 spline outer tons and 42's), myself, a yota (Built D44's and 36's), and a Rubicon (44's and 36's) all made the trip to Moab. I rode with Gabe and we did not take my truck for several reasons ($$, No Tow Rig, I didn't think it was tested enough anyway). If I remember correctly we ran 3-4 days in Moab and the last at BFE running all the popular stuff from the trifecta to Pritchett and Upper Helldarado.
Here on the East Coast we are more familiar with smaller parks, mostly privately owned. Point and shoot, High HP buggies are getting popular. There isn't really anywhere that’s extremely difficult to get back to the tow rigs/camp.
The MAIN thoughts I had leaving Moab were "I'm coming back as soon as possible" and "My truck will not go to Moab with a Carburetor and without 4:1 or low range or lower" (btw im still 42's, 4.56's and a TH400/NP205)
We were fortunate to make it through the week with virtually NO breakage but I would be hesitant to go back without a group that I knew I could count on if we were to get into a bad situation.
I've been wondering what they do if people can't make it on the first day when they do the tech inspections. Say for the sake of discussion we scheduled a tech insp for Thursday and someone couldn't make until Friday, how is that normally handled. Or is it just not an option, everyone must be there the first day.
I think in order to pull that off we'd have to eliminate the Friday runs in lieu of doing inspections before having the BBQ. Perhaps then extend the event into Monday to get 3 days of trail runs.
They offer tech inspections for more than one day, but they are also part of a bigger 4wd club, and many members take time off the trails to man the tech inspection station. Given the circumstances, I think this may not be practical for us.
We typically don't do any of the marathons on Friday because of the BBQ. So we could possibly do a tech inspection at the BBQ. Basically, everyone who would be qualified to do an inspection is there anyway, and we could make it a prerequisite to bring the truck to the BBQ to have it looked at in order to be able to go on the run. Most people also have their truck there anyways. Maybe to start out we could do it at least for those vehicles that are signed up for the difficult runs.
Yeah, BBQ/Tech inspections. That should be the plan.
I agree with the tech inspections. It certainly won't catch every issue, but would help. A lot of clubs require recovery points, minimum tire size, CB radio, lockers, etc.
As far as trifecta goes, I ran it Monday before the BB with two guys I had just met. One was a highly modified jeep, the other was a slightly modified rubicon. We flew through in 5 hours, that included a half hour lunch break and 15-20 minute stop at the crack and stopping at all the major obstacles for pictures. But we were all experienced drivers with well built rigs and we didn't have a single issue.
A small group and an early start is the key. If there are any issues the trail leader needs to cut out. I think a good idea would be that if you don't make it to the turnoff for Golden Spike by X:XX then you just do the poison spider loop and head back to camp.
As far as trifecta goes, I ran it Monday before the BB with two guys I had just met. One was a highly modified jeep, the other was a slightly modified rubicon. We flew through in 5 hours, that included a half hour lunch break and 15-20 minute stop at the crack and stopping at all the major obstacles for pictures. But we were all experienced drivers with well built rigs and we didn't have a single issue.
A small group and an early start is the key. If there are any issues the trail leader needs to cut out. I think a good idea would be that if you don't make it to the turnoff for Golden Spike by X:XX then you just do the poison spider loop and head back to camp.
How about a tech inspection on Friday at BFE too. Certain people run it for say 2 hours, then a couple of others guys take over and so on. Set up the hours it is open from 9AM to 1 or whatever works, and it can be drivers responsibility to get there and get their level of sticker for their runs. That way guys can still enjoy the BBQ. The only BBq tech inspections will be the guys who ran the organized run or showed up late. No sticker on Sat morning equals no running period, no exceptions. Make it the drivers responsibility to get to tech inspection. Just my 2 cents. Was an awesome weekend and the wife is already asking what I want to change on the truck for next year!
mrdrinksalil
1/2 ton status
I'm curious. What kinds of things did we see this year that yall felt made for rigs that shouldn't be on the trail?
My blazer.... haha
You may not get many responses for that question. It is more a take on personal thoughts or perceptions. I saw what i call half a$$ed suspension causing serious axle rap, driveline angles that are way to tight, poor maintenance in general. But that's my opinion so if i offended people oh well.
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1.03.01
385872ac-e1bf-4039-89ea-bac355d9f66b
1.03.01
TDAWG1
1/2 ton status
I showed up with a Crack in my Frame at steering Box. I knew about it but figured I could do some Lesser Trails and be ok. I am Glad I was talked out of it. There is no way to know for sure all the damages or hidden things But I know the guys I wheel with. I know what they do before every trip to there Rigs to make sure there are no Major issues.
Bottom Line things happen. But we should know if we are on a Trail with a Guy who has never done this before or Only has one Locker or no Locker. Last year a or Two years ago a A bunch of Guys Ran around and Tourqued down Steering Arms That was AMAZING to see how many of us were Riding around on LOOSE stuff LOL.
But How about equipment Tow Straps Winch Shovel Water those things that so many take for granted on the trail. All I can say for sure is that AS per usuall I had an AWESOME time and so did my Family.
Bottom Line things happen. But we should know if we are on a Trail with a Guy who has never done this before or Only has one Locker or no Locker. Last year a or Two years ago a A bunch of Guys Ran around and Tourqued down Steering Arms That was AMAZING to see how many of us were Riding around on LOOSE stuff LOL.
But How about equipment Tow Straps Winch Shovel Water those things that so many take for granted on the trail. All I can say for sure is that AS per usuall I had an AWESOME time and so did my Family.
