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No CRANK after rain.......

vandelay industries

vandelay industries

1/2 ton status
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No Crank after rain

Battery good. Lights good etc. It WILL start after everything dries up.

Just the standard 70's-80's set up with HEI. No 90's and newer stuff (if that's different?)


Any ideas?
 
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Really odd. I could understand no start, wet secondary wires. Have never had wetness mess with a crank circuit. Maybe temperature ? I have seen temperature related no crank when the main cable was just slightly loose at the starter.
Do you know if the crank signal wire has voltage when ignition is in crank position ? Is the under dash area getting wet as well ?
 
I agree, that’s a strange one. Maybe condensation from the moisture in the air is just enough to mess with an already corroded connection? I’d start with a good check of the wires on the starter for any green fuzz buildup or corrosion.
 
Start with the basics for no crank and pull off the battery terminals, starter main lug, B- to block ground, etc. It's also possible there is a temperature effect and it's cooling off when it rains.

Would be really weird if you were getting water in the ignition switch or bulkhead connector, but probably worth checking out later.
 
The bulkhead connector, is a suspect. Loose and maybe hard or missing goop, 77 compound, allowing water intrusion.
 
Since i have the long holiday weekend off, this gives me a chance to give:

UPDATE:

No, the problem is NOT solved (what else would you expect.....)

i got a new battery two mondays ago thinking that was the problem. i plopped it in and it cranked right up.

However, this past monday morning it did the no-crank thing again, so the "fix" lasted about a week. Although i did get it to crank and start yesterday.

So, were back to intermittent no-crank.

i don't think the rain has anything to do with it since it rained like hell the previous week and it started right up. Also, it rained like hell thursday and friday morning---and it started right up. (So, this past monday it wouldn't crank, i didn't do anything, and then this friday morning it cranked)

i don't think it's the battery or starter. (both new/newish).

i've included the diagnostic chart from the service manual for reference:

Yc6PVXX.jpg
 
Wes Harden said:
Next time you get no crank, move gear select to neutral and try again.
Click to expand...
Neutral safety switch is a valid theory for these symptoms (or clutch switch if this is a manual).

Then what? Ignition switch?
 
Assuming you have checked and cleaned the power and ground leads from the battery as stated before.

Are you getting ignition when you turn the key on? That eliminates the power to the switch. Then test the purple wire in the steering column loom. Both sides of the Park/neutral switch. This will eliminate the ignition switch and the park/neutral switch. If all of that is working, check the purple wire coming through the firewall. If power is there, check it at the starter. If power is there, the starter solenoid or the starter is fubar.

Just because the starter is newish, does not mean it is good. I have had multiple name brand and rebuilds die in a short time.
 
ktmoutfront said:
Assuming you have checked and cleaned the power and ground leads from the battery as stated before.

Are you getting ignition when you turn the key on? That eliminates the power to the switch. Then test the purple wire in the steering column loom. Both sides of the Park/neutral switch. This will eliminate the ignition switch and the park/neutral switch. If all of that is working, check the purple wire coming through the firewall. If power is there, check it at the starter. If power is there, the starter solenoid or the starter is fubar.

Just because the starter is newish, does not mean it is good. I have had multiple name brand and rebuilds die in a short time.
Click to expand...

Update:
The truck is at a local grocery store a few miles from me.

i have radio when the switch is turned to "ACC" and the courtesy light near the floor, but nothing else----no other lights, no dashlights, no crank or click----NOTHING.

1) i do not think, at this point, i am getting ignition with the key on.

2) i took the battery home at put it on the charger; It's reading 13.2 V at 75% charged. i swapped a fully charged battery in and no change.

3) i don't mean to be rude or smart-butt, but HOW do you test the purple wire? The park/neutral switch? The purple wire when it comes out of the firewall etc.? Some of us do not have solid experience with electrical. i don't shy away from it, in fact i think auto electrical is interesting. i just never really had to do it before. We need DETAIL.

So yes, you really, please, have to "hold my hand" with this.
 
A test light. Like this.
www.lislecorp.com

OBSOLETE AT FACTORY - 28640 The Ultimate Circuit Tester Kit

Heavy Duty Tester Signals With A Light And Buzzer.
www.lislecorp.com www.lislecorp.com
You can get one at any autoparts store.
The clamp goes on a good ground anywhere. Probe the wire or the connection in the wire block, at the ignition junction on the steering column, chasing the purple wire.

You might want to check the starter first. If Power is there, the starter is fubarred.

Do you have experience with jumping the starter?
 
At this point. I am not sure you are getting full power to the ign switch.
Head lamps and horn have power?

You need a helper to purple wire at start signal terminal on starter.
Use a test light, have helper trun switch to crank, test lamp should light. If not check neutral safety switch. It is on column near firewall the purple wire goes in the switch then out to firewall bulkhead connector.
While holding the ignition switch in crank probe both purple wires at neutral safety switch. If power on one side but not both the switch is out of adjustment or bad. If no power on either, then the ignition switch is suspect, if it has power.
 
ktmoutfront said:
A test light. Like this.
www.lislecorp.com

OBSOLETE AT FACTORY - 28640 The Ultimate Circuit Tester Kit

Heavy Duty Tester Signals With A Light And Buzzer.
www.lislecorp.com www.lislecorp.com
You can get one at any autoparts store.
The clamp goes on a good ground anywhere. Probe the wire or the connection in the wire block, at the ignition junction on the steering column, chasing the purple wire.

You might want to check the starter first. If Power is there, the starter is fubarred.

Do you have experience with jumping the starter?
Click to expand...

Wes Harden said:
At this point. I am not sure you are getting full power to the ign switch.
Head lamps and horn have power?

You need a helper to purple wire at start signal terminal on starter.
Use a test light, have helper trun switch to crank, test lamp should light. If not check neutral safety switch. It is on column near firewall the purple wire goes in the switch then out to firewall bulkhead connector.
While holding the ignition switch in crank probe both purple wires at neutral safety switch. If power on one side but not both the switch is out of adjustment or bad. If no power on either, then the ignition switch is suspect, if it has power.
Click to expand...


Yes, i have a test light. And a remote starter----so i'm lost in the sauce, but not THAT lost.

UPDATE:
i was able to jump it with my other truck and drive it home. And it will start back up for now------but for how much longer.......?
 
Ok, real quick. Test with a screw driver. Unhook the ignition, purple wire from the starter. Short across from the battery cable that is attached to the starter, to the ignition post connector, where the purple wire would have connected. Engine should crank with this.
If it does, you need to check continuity between the connector on the end of the purple wire, to the other end of it, up at the ignition switch. Should be less than 1 ohm, ie, good connection.
Please report back.
 
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Ok, i think we got it this time: Shit autoparts store negative battery cable = bad negative battery cable....

FiWdnAS.jpg



  • First clue was that even when i tightened it down, i could still kinda move it with my hand......... (NOTE: In the above picture, the "new" / "temporary" test negative cable is attached to the side terminal of the battery, BUT i wanted to show how the post mounted cable was, so i re-attached it for the picture. )

  • With the "new"/"temporary" test cable (this is the one attached to the side terminal, not the negative post) everything is back to normal----the engine cranks briskly, starts up quick, all lights, dashboard lights etc. are bright etc. i will be ordering a "real" cable tonight.

  • The red positive cable is original to the truck (83......so that's 39, possibly 40 years depending on what month it was built......)

What i (possibly we) learned:

1) connections might be "tight enough" and look "clean enough" to supply lights, horn, radio, interior lights etc., BUT not enough to supply cranking power AND the battery could be fine too.

After a while i started to get a hunch it was the negative battery cable, but i still wanted to follow the diagnostic procedure as outlined in the service manual:

Ibagv37.jpg


What i'm not clear on is, under my step 4, where we are measuring positive lead of multimeter on block and negative lead on battery negative post and the key turned to the "start" position: The chart is asking if the result is more or less than .5 volt

a) i'm not exactly clear what we are measuring and how/why we are measuring it?

b) i got WAY more than .5 volt, at 12.77 ish volts. Is this normal?
 
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