NON HYDRO ASSIST DANA 60 crossover people

[gmc4cw]

And because your steering arm is already left of center when the wheels are straight, it makes matters somewhat worse when turning left and somewhat better when turning right.

great point.

if you fix the box and everything else is right with your setup then one of two things will help. hydro assist or a panhard bar.

the panhard bar will keep the springs from being pushed sideways but there is the slight effects it will have on flex. when flexing it WILL move the axle sideways. how much depends on how much lift you have and the angle the panhard bar is located at. a panhard bar will not effect the speed at which you can turn the wheel.

hydro will take some of the sideways force off the springs but there are slight drawbacks also. your tierod travels in an arc. a ram travels in a straight line. everybody that I wheel with that has hydro assist has a slight bend in their tierod as a result. also depending on the size of the ram you could slow down your ability to turn the wheel quickly.

with my setup I have a 2" ram with a 1.25" rod. it turns quick enough for wheeling and street driving but I can't react quick enough if I gas it in loose stuff and bring the back end around. no more powersliding.

 

[Mudstud]

This is some very good insight. What I'm hearing is that I'm a good candidate for hydro assist to gain full lock to lock steering. BUT- What I question is why this happening? If the freakin box still has swing it when the wheels hit the stop tabs then where is this force coming from? I know these 2wd sectors are skinnier then the 4wd shafts but it just seems they should be able to take a little more then what I'm throwing at them. Someone stated early on in this thread that I better get this fixed first or Hydro assist may make it worse by breaking something else.

Once again, each component was turned with no other component attached and each turned smooth and easy it's full range. The plastic bag trick is a good one.

I had a question though, on eof you guys said since my pitman arm is slightly off center that is why I can't turn to lock going left

deadlew- Those dimensions were taken with the DL diconnected.

gmc4cw- "when the box and wheels are pointed straight is the draglink perpendicular to the trucks frame or is it pointed slightly forward or backwards?" The answer is that the pitman arm is parallel with the frame.

Jimmy88- BTW when you twisted the sector shaft, was the impact from the hole trying to push the axle sideways as well as turn the wheels? I was coming through a rough hole so there shouldn't have been much side to side stress. I mean I been hitting holes like this for quite awhile and used to never have a problem with steering breakage.

Were the wheels pointing straight at the time? Kinda hard to tell with all the bouncing around. This where it came to rest. Winch man is pulling me out. After getting out of this hole is when I couldn't turn left hardly at all and got out to look at the shaft and saw the stress cracks. Nursed it outta the woods and towed it home.

 

[gmc4cw]

I had a question though, one of you guys said since my pitman arm is slightly off center that is why I can't turn to lock going left



gmc4cw- "when the box and wheels are pointed straight is the draglink perpendicular to the trucks frame or is it pointed slightly forward or backwards?" The answer is that the pitman arm is parallel with the frame.

the pitman arm is not off center, your steering arm is. the pitman arm is on the steering box and the steering arm is on the axle. it can be confusing. my question was about the draglink, not the pitman arm. the draglink connects the two arms. an ideal setup would have it be perpendicular (90 degrees) to the frame at full lock either way. this is not how its setup naturally if the axle is in its original location. my axle is in the stock location and when I have the wheels pointed straight the draglink is at a 90 degree angle to the frame. it could be that your springs have actually moved the axle backwards making the steering geometry worse.

 

[gmc4cw]

I can't believe I care enough to have just reread this entire thread.

did you ever fix the problem with your shackles? how about the kingpin bushings? did you remove the shims yet? did you check both centerpins?


you don't need the shims. I am running superlift 6" springs with no shims and the t-case clocked and the driveline angle is fine. I did have to do some grinding of the stops in the CV though. the shims are not helping your ability to turn. if anything they are making it turn worse. as you rotate the axle the way you did the wheels turn more into the ground versus side to side.


here is what you should do. remove both shims. check the centerpins while you have the springs unbolted. give them a really good smack with a heavy hammer. I have had broken ones that held the spring together with rust. find out whats making the shackle move side to side. are all the bushings good? the stock upper bushings are not built to take the abuse of hard wheeling. I have ruined a set of stock ones and a set of ORD greasables. probably why they offer the F.U.S.H. now.

 

[jimmy88]

...BUT- What I question is why this happening? If the freakin box still has swing it when the wheels hit the stop tabs then where is this force coming from?......

Where is the force coming from? Ultimately from the tires. But remember a lot of extra force is required because of fighting against the geometry. Think about trying to loosen a stuck bolt. You instinctively know to pull on the breaker bar handle at a 90 degree angle. This gives you the best leverage and results in the most torque applied to the bolt. Now imagine if you were rotate your arm 45 degrees and pull on the breaker bar. The angle between your arm and the breaker bar is 135 degrees. Now you would have to pull a lot harder on the bar since much of your force is wasted trying to pull the bolt toward you instead of just twisting it. Same for the steering, the further the angle between the draglink and the steering arm gets away from 90 degrees the more force is wasted trying to move the axle side to side. Makes more sense or not?

.....I know these 2wd sectors are skinnier then the 4wd shafts but it just seems they should be able to take a little more then what I'm throwing at them. Someone stated early on in this thread that I better get this fixed first or Hydro assist may make it worse by breaking something else.....

After seeing your sector shaft, one of my concerns about crossover is that without a panhard rod is when the axle takes a sideways impact (like when bouncing off ruts or rocks), then force will be transmitted through the draglink to the steering box which then tries to stop the sideways motion. The longer the pitman arm the more torque there will be on the sector shaft during an impact. If a panhard bar was used it would take the side shifting forces and only forces trying to steer the wheels would go through the draglink. Hydro assist would not help in this specific instance.

 

[Mudstud]

RE: the first chunck of info you gave was explained very well- I get it.

RE: the second chunk of info- hmmm, not what I want to hear. It is reassuring what gmc4cw said about having never seen (or heard of) anyone breaking a shaft with assist.

 

[Mudstud]

my replies

My replies in red.

I can't believe I care enough to have just reread this entire thread. Thanks for that and your persistant posts to help me out.

did you ever fix the problem with your shackles? Yes, new bushings in the rear lower one. They wore out cuz the spring perch was crushing down and angling the leaf spring out about 4*. how about the kingpin bushings? I know these are cracked in one spot. Everytime I take the freakin king pins off they are cracked so I just expect this and accept this as a rule in life. did you remove the shims yet? No. Thought and thought about it and mulled over what folks have told me and decided against it at this point. Plus time was running out and I wanted to get it together for the truck show and trail ride. did you check both centerpins? i only looked at the one I had apart to fix the spring perch. Speaking of, look at how wollered out the hole is in this thing. It was round when I put the lift springs in. Sorry for bad pic.

you don't need the shims. I am running superlift 6" springs with no shims and the t-case clocked and the driveline angle is fine. I did have to do some grinding of the stops in the CV though. the shims are not helping your ability to turn. if anything they are making it turn worse. as you rotate the axle the way you did the wheels turn more into the ground versus side to side. I am willing to try removing them- mainly just ran outta time, You running a factory front shaft? I've ground my stops on the CV too but have not dropped the t-case. My set up is 350, th350, 205- What's yours?


here is what you should do. remove both shims. check the centerpins while you have the springs unbolted. give them a really good smack with a heavy hammer. I have had broken ones that held the spring together with rust. find out whats making the shackle move side to side. are all the bushings good? The uppers look fine from what I can tell from visual inspection. the stock upper bushings are not built to take the abuse of hard wheeling. I have ruined a set of stock ones and a set of ORD greasables. probably why they offer the F.U.S.H. now.

 

[gmc4cw]

my front shaft is longer then yours. I am running a 350, 700R4 (longer then a 350) and a 241 (longer then a 205) my t-case is not dropped. its actually clocked and pushed up into the frame. making the angle a lot higher then yours. I originally ran a lengthened stock shaft, now its a square tube since I made a jump rope out of the lengthened one. but it still runs a stock CV with the stops ground out and new joints.

 

[Mudstud]

Would you still recommend i ditch my shims then knowing the difs bewteen our set ups? Actually, I think I need to put a degree finder on the knuckle and see where I'm at. I think anywhere from 5* - 7* is stock and should improve steering.

 

[gmc4cw]

you do not need the shims. they help the driveshaft angle but hurt the steering.