NOS questions

[smalltruckbigcid]

I don't know what compression you are running but you can destroy the pistons with careless tuning. If this is a dry shot setup you need to run less compression. My .02 is to save your pennies and get the better heads. It will cost more up front but you'll be happier in the end.
George

 

[MudFrog]

Use it. I'm like you I want a good strong engine with a shot of nitrous when I need it. When I finally do build a new engine I look for it to be around 300-350 hp, this would be great power for around the town and pretty good power on the trail. It beats the heck out of my stock 210HP (from the factory) engine. When I enter a mud bog or hit a mud pit thats giving me some trouble I'll have it there if needed. It's cheaper on the front side and will save gas compared to building a 400+ hp engine.

 

[daleearnhardt01]

Is 200K miles out of the question with this motor?

Nitrous + dirtwarrior = Snowball's chance in hell for 200k miles

 

[rjfguitar]

all the hot rod bells an whistles, eh? with those be for '62 Camel Hump heads, and a hydraulic flat tappet cam, double rolller timing set, and god only knows what kind of bearings that thing has in it... i dont think you should be claiming "bells and whistles"....

heads can be greatly improved, as can the camshaft, the timing set (to a gear drive or a belt drive setup, and some bearings that will stand up to some kind of abuse, as opposed to the stock replacements it probably has in it now. GM x rods are nothing to write home about either.

200K out of an engine tuned and driven by a high school kid who has no idea what he's even thinking, much less doing is absolutely unheard of.

There, now you can read it dirt...... I know you don't like him, but he's right on the money. Sorry.

I've heard stock cast pistons can not handle the temperature change that occurs when nitrous and extra fuel is flowing into the engine. It takes a completely forged rotating assembly with good mains on the block to build any kind of reliable squeezable engine.


Be freakin' happy with what'chya got. If you are actually making 300 and something HP then settle for that. THe majority of fourwheelers out there don't even have 300HP, be thankfull that you have more than a stock motor, unlike most.

Besides, you've only got 35's or something. And they are simple M/T's if memory serves. I had plenty of power to turn 33" MT's with 3.08 gears and a worn out smogged up stock 350 a few years ago.

You don't need to squeeze your motor with your setup offroad. If all you want to do is join the asian neon'd buzzers then thats different.

another 100HP out of your engine probably isn't going to make any difference trying to climb out of a mud pit. With 300HP and simple M/T's you probably have more of a traction problem than anything. If you are spinning or hung up to the springs in mud, 400HP isn't going to do squat, besides flinging more mud in the air and all over everyone.

Now, if you were actually competing or racing the clock, then thats different. I don't see you as a fellow out on the weekends racing the clock through the tank trap....with a near stock truck.

 

[mikey_d05]

all the hot rod bells an whistles, eh? with those be for '62 Camel Hump heads, and a hydraulic flat tappet cam, double rolller timing set, and god only knows what kind of bearings that thing has in it... i dont think you should be claiming "bells and whistles"....

heads can be greatly improved, as can the camshaft, the timing set (to a gear drive or a belt drive setup, and some bearings that will stand up to some kind of abuse, as opposed to the stock replacements it probably has in it now. GM x rods are nothing to write home about either.

200K out of an engine tuned and driven by a high school kid who has no idea what he's even thinking, much less doing is absolutely unheard of.

BTW, cast pistons and n2o i snothing but suicide.

Don't worry about it man, he can take care of all of that with his prominator.

 

[MudFrog]

Nitrous + dirtwarrior = Snowball's chance in hell for 200k miles

Whoa.. I must have missed that post. Deffinitely not with 200k miles. I would say with a fresh rebuild, yes.. anything else and your just asking for trouble.

 

[beater_k20]

it is supposedly a new engine, he bought it off of EBay. he wants it to go 200K while shooting it with giggle gas along the way.

 

[jarheadk5]

why do you think i started this thread?

I know more than you think...but i'm not suprised somebody said this... figured one of my "cheerleaders" would chime in and tell me i'm too inexperienced. The fact is that i do my homework so i can do it with my eyes closed because like you said "i don't know enough about what i'm doing." I am not gonna sit here and try to convince you or anybody else of my motor experience or knowledge because at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you "think" i know.

First of all, I'm not one of your "cheerleaders". I don't know how old you are, and I honestly don't care.

The fact that you have posted a question about running a nitrous motor on an off-roading website that (when you think about it) is populated by more 'crawlers than 'boggers, speaks volumes for your experience level. It's good that you're trying to educate yourself... but you need to look for that education in the right places. For N20 info, try boards for mud & sand draggers, hot-rodders, drag racers... the people that USE N2O. More importantly, the people that use it AND know how an engine needs to be built in order to survive it long-term.

As far as your engine build-up goes... When someone tells me his motor is built with "all the hot rod bells and whistles", I automatically assume a forged rotating assy., good heads with some work done to them, and a well-thought-out induction system. I think this is a pretty reasonable assumption, and is probably representative of most people who are into this stuff. So far, it sounds to me (by what you've posted here in this thread) like you've got OEM rods, cast pistons and crank, and a decent fuel injection system, all on a 2-bolt block. Has your block been machined for the 4-bolt splayed main caps? If not, and you bottle-feed it in a heavy truck, expect a cracked main web, followed shortly by a spun main bearing or broken crank. This assumes, of course, that you don't burn a piston first.


Whether or not you choose to take the advice you asked for is entirely up to you. But remember this statement, 'cause it'll help you for the rest of your life:

If you can't or won't accept the answer, don't ask the question.




I'm outta this one.

 

[89GMCSuburban]

I kinda agree, saying that's a built engine is like saying my engine is built because I put a cam in it.

It comes down to personal opinion. I didn't build my truck to race, so I don't dick with nitrous. To each their own...and in the end, it's up to you.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

ugh...

even if camels are older than most of us they are still better than stock. The cam is getting swapped out for a zcam from crane. It has 10:1 compression, holley manifold, accell pump, headers, k and n, prominator, holley tbi, and soon electric fans and water pump... yeah its not a screamer( at least not until the heads go on) but with the cam swap(has l-79 now) it'll be at 330hp no problem. with the electric fans and pump it'll be more around 350 hp and 400 ft lbs. As for the nitrous, looks like its a bad idea. I thought it would be a good way to sidestep the 400 hp limit of the holley tbi but from what i'm hearin its not a good idea(compression ratio needs to go down=pita and not worth it)

Gears are on the top of the list but 5.13's are a little overkill for my rig... its not my dd but i will still be towing jetskis and boats to lake and making trips with it every other day. I have an np208 and a 700 so first gear 4lo is LOW already. I want it to have enough power to cruise in OD with at a fairly low rpm and not downshift to 3rd everytime the slope changes.

I want more power because the next thing that is gonna get done after gears and motor is a 2" body lift and a 1" shackle flip... to make room for 37 or 38's.

MUDFROG: I was asking if i could get 200k miles out of it with n20... the motor has about 10 miles on it, not 200k.

Jarhead... by cheerleaders i meant mikey, surpip, beater, earnhardt, and the rest of my fan club. i figured you were one of em so i took what you posted the grain of salt.

i posted here because theres PLENTY of guys running n20 on this site... if your looking for wheel speed in 4hi n20 is one answer.

"the world is a peach and i'm a wire brush"

 

[cybrfire]

A few facts that I see left out of these debates just for FYI purposes.

Nitrous adds air to the engine. To make power you must add more fuel. (Everybody knew that but the following seems skipped over.)

Superchargers add air to the engine. To make power you must add more fuel.

Heads increase flow so you can get more air into the engine. To make more power you must add more fuel.

In the end the equation is the same no matter how you build it. This much air and fuel will yield this much power. If your tuned properly and want more power there is only one way to get it. BURN MORE AIR/FUEL.

So with these facts in mind, no matter what you top the engine with the bottom end must be able to handle the additional stress.

 

[rjfguitar]

even if camels are older than most of us they are still better than stock. The cam is getting swapped out for a zcam from crane. It has 10:1 compression, holley manifold, accell pump, headers, k and n, prominator, holley tbi, and soon electric fans and water pump...

Thats basically a stock motor with the standard bolt on performance parts.....stock bore, stock stroke, stock rods, stock pistons (besides compression) and stock crank.

Gears are on the top of the list but 5.13's are a little overkill for my rig... its not my dd but i will still be towing jetskis and boats to lake and making trips with it every other day. I have an np208 and a 700 so first gear 4lo is LOW already. I want it to have enough power to cruise in OD with at a fairly low rpm and not downshift to 3rd everytime the slope changes.

Um, a numerically higher gear ratio will only help you hold 4th gear. lower rear end gears brings your cruising RPM up, closer to the power band which is why it would be able to handle 4th gear. Trucks with gears like 3.08 have a hard time holding OD because the RPM's are so low it's almost bogging the motor in 4th. 5.13's would be perfect for a 350 with 35's or larger.

MUDFROG: I was asking if i could get 200k miles out of it with n20... the motor has about 10 miles on it, not 200k.

Everyone knows that you were asking.

Jarhead... by cheerleaders i meant mikey, surpip, beater, earnhardt, and the rest of my fan club. i figured you were one of em so i took what you posted the grain of salt.

Where's me?

 

[sled_dog]

I want more power because the next thing that is gonna get done after gears and motor is a 2" body lift and a 1" shackle flip... to make room for 37 or 38's.

This is a not thinking statement from what I see. You are planning on regearing and working that math around 35s so then you will slap more lift and bigger tires on so your new gearing is yet again inadequate???? Think boy.

I'd love to see your truck hit a Dyno. I've never heard someone toss around HP and torque numbers like you do. I don't even guess what my 383 is going to make anymore, its a stupid thought. It is the first performance motor I've built to my design, I can't begin to make claims and whatever anyone tells me, I simply don't care. I'm going to dyno the damn thing and find out for myself.

 

[MudFrog]

even if camels are older than most of us they are still better than stock. The cam is getting swapped out for a zcam from crane. It has 10:1 compression, holley manifold, accell pump, headers, k and n, prominator, holley tbi, and soon electric fans and water pump... yeah its not a screamer( at least not until the heads go on) but with the cam swap(has l-79 now) it'll be at 330hp no problem. with the electric fans and pump it'll be more around 350 hp and 400 ft lbs. As for the nitrous, looks like its a bad idea. I thought it would be a good way to sidestep the 400 hp limit of the holley tbi but from what i'm hearin its not a good idea(compression ratio needs to go down=pita and not worth it)

Be sure to do your research on each part when planning to use TBI. You did not specify which TBI but I'm assuming the 670cfm which is only rated for 275hp, although it probably would handle more. This is just me but the guess at HP seems high. I've been looking into an engine build for my truck and the TBI is extremely picky / hard to get big #'s out of.

When I get out of the shock of just buying a house I will start to buld a 383 stroker as recomended by TBICHIPS.COM. Combined with the Dart 165's (or 180's), recommended cam, 750 cfm Throttlebody, and other suggestions from their site they are claiming around 350 hp, I still wouldn't be suprised if it was more in the 325-330 hp range though. From my understanding it's just hard to make real good power with TBI. Just my opinion.

MUDFROG: I was asking if i could get 200k miles out of it with n20... the motor has about 10 miles on it, not 200k.

Like I said, I missed the original post, but still I don't think an engine would make it to 200k while using Nitrous. Heck, a lot of bone stock engines don't make it to 200k without needing a rebuild.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

This is a not thinking statement from what I see. You are planning on regearing and working that math around 35s so then you will slap more lift and bigger tires on so your new gearing is yet again inadequate???? Think boy.

... who said i was regearing for the 35's? I'm a little sick of people telling me what i'm gonna do on my rig... people are too damn busy trippin over themselves to correct me they can't even read what i wrote.

I'd love to see your truck hit a Dyno. I've never heard someone toss around HP and torque numbers like you do.

No offense but im not sure i beleive that.
All im gonna say is theres always two sides to a story.

Rjf... i plan to run 4.88's with the bigger tires... i left you off the list? haven't seen you in a while.

Everyone knows that you were asking.

Is your name mudfrog? Next time take a few seconds to look at the MUDFROG: part of that post.

I never said it wasn't bolt on... goddamn, i'm startin to get sick of people twisting my words. For some reason you think i've been quoted saying this thing is built up beast of a smallblock when all i said was hot rod bells and whistles...a few of you took that to mean forged everything with 450 hp and mpfi. then you jump in and act like i was talking to you. whatever... personal opinion is personal opinion. 330 hp with fuel injection is still a "built" motor in my book. take that however you want.... im done.

Mudfrog: My original claims were over 350 hp... its gotten chopped down over time to 330 hp. Holley claims 275hp without computer tuning...which is why i bought a prominator. With tuning they say 350 hp but guys over at thirdgen claim 400 hp. I've spent a GOOD(but still not enough) chunk of my time figuring out what to do about the computer tuning part and i finally came to the conclusion of the prominator.

 

[sweetk30]

calm down boy . just do use all a big favor and open the nos bottle and inhale.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

calm down boy

easy fur you to say...

 

[CyberSniper]

The part that is hard on a motor running nitrous is the shock loads. A 100 shot is enough to make a motor jerk in its mounts. Imagine what that does to the rotating assembly and its bearings. Everything else you can plan for. The heat can be taken care of by a cooler thermostat and a larger radiator. Hypereutectic pistons will survive a multistage nitrous onslaught as long as predetonation doesn't happen. The bearings don't care as long as you run good oil and have enough volume to keep the crank from hitting the babbitt when the shock load comes.

I ran an all cast 383... had it balanced within a gram... ARP studded it... ported the heads... high volume oil pump... 9.2:1 hypereutectic pistons... wet two stage kit with its own fuel source... blah blah blah. I never had enough nerve to run much timing on it. I shifted at 6000rpm on the 100 shot and 5500rpm on the 250 shot. I ran around 60 bottles through it. Reliable 640rwhp. Or at least it seemed reliable. I think the key to keeping it alive was limiting when I started to spray, when I shifted for the horsepower, the retarded timing, the separate fuel source, and the ARP studs/balancing.

A modern fuel injection system... OBDII and newer... I don't have a problem with spraying like the Orkin Man. The computer is so fast to react to predetonation that engine damage is unlikely. A lot of guys are pushing 700hp on stock internals.

I'd stick a 100 shot on my 305 if I could find a decent kit for an affordable price.

I think you need to ask these questions on a car forum.

BTW, cast pistons and n2o i snothing but suicide.

You must've used a lot of nitrous in that sandbox built plastigage motor you're so proud of, eh?

You want 200,000 miles out of a motor on nitrous?

It's possible out of a fuel injected motor kept at 100hp or less. If it dies before 200k it probably isn't going to be the squeeze that did it. It'll either be the operator or lack of maintenance.

You mention thinking a supercharger might be harder on a motor? Ummm...do you see any cars from the factory with Nitrous? I don't, but I sure do see lots of supercharged ones......

People don't even like to be inconvenienced by putting gas in their automobiles... now imagine giggle gas...? Besides, most people are dumb. It is why you see most automobiles today torque managed to hell.

 

[mikey_d05]

You pretty much said yourself you were regearing for 35's to tow a little with. I'm too lazy to read through the thread again. People are correcting you because you've apparently been misinformed about a lot of things.

I will also back Sled on this one, I've never seen somebody guess at numbers like this, there may be two sides to every story but unless yours includes forged internals I don't think it's gonna matter.

When you say all the hot rod bells and whistles that means all of 'em, if I said I was running a stroked big block and it was a 396 people would be awefully mislead.

If your fuelie setup can sustain 400 hp N/A, it can only sustain 400 hp on juice, it's all about fuel and unless you run a plate or a set of auxiliary injectors your not getting any more gas and you're gonna melt pistons.

Now, back on topic, nitrous is not a good idea for your motor or the type of wheeling you most likely do. Your internals won't take it and your injection won't keep up with it.

 

[beater_k20]

330 hp with fuel injection is still a "built" motor in my book.

wow, then in that case, consider me a pro stock god from here on out. i've built several engines producing over 500hp for circle track cars. if 330hp is built, what would you consider a 500hp engine?