NV4500 to 327 Qs

[CUCV2]

Your welcome--I have no clue about using a later style hydraulic throwout bearing on an older bellhousing arrangement,but others here who've done NV4500 swaps will likely know what part numbers to use..
I found out the stock throwout bearings come in 3 different lengths,depending on which pressure plate was used...
The longest bearing was used with the "flat finger" smaller clutches (10.5" & 11") and another "medium length" one was used on most of the 3 finger borg & beck pressure plates,and the shortest one of the three was used on the "raised diaphagm" pressure plates..

I had to pull a SM465 transmission out twice to change throwout bearings after I found out the hard way I had put the shortest one in ,and I had a 3 finger pressure plate...if I adjusted the clutch to have the proper free play,it wouldn't fully release,and grind gears when I shifted from neutral and while driving...if I adjusted all the free play out,then it shifted fine,but now the bearing was always contacting the pressure plate..

This also was a problem on my '75 2WD K5..I put a Saginaw 4 speed in it from a '74 Vega and all was well until I found out the throwout bearing in it from the 3 speed clutch setup it originally had used one of the other length throwout bearings,and now the clutch slipped unless I adjusted alll the free play out..drove it a week that way.

So out came the transmission again,in the middle of January,on a slush covered driveway,lying on a blue tarp a whole day....the kicker was I had all 3 types of bearings in my garage left over from the '72 K5 swap ,but never thought to check which length it needed..

That is when I decided to start buying clutch kits with all three pieces included,rather than piece meal things together....

The joys of working in Winter weather, haha. Summers around here are usually super busy with the things I would rather do in warmer weather. Winter usually ends up with the projects I know are going to require more research/time. I've changed my mind four times with the 59 GMC as to which particular drivetrain to put in it. I'm currently at a stage where I think the beauty of it is it's simplicity and lack of technology. But it definitely needs an OD because it has 4.56 gears in the NAPCO axles. Even with OD it will still probably be in the higher RPMS but it certainly was not built for speed anyways.

 

[diesel4me]

I assume if its a NAPCO conversion,that it has a divorced transfer case ?..that opens up a lot more possibilities as far as transmission choices..

I'm at the age where I'm wanting a simple truck,like my old '56, Chevy,only with P/S and better yet,on a square body 4x4 chassis with disc brakes..

A straight six would suit me just fine,and low gearing wouldn't bother me much ,as I've gotten used to taking back roads everywhere since I got my '82 GMC with a 6.2..and I rarely ever go far from home now any more...I prefer simple,easy to fix vehicles,that don't NEED fixing very often...something familiar I'm used too,that I grew up working on..

There was a nice '58 GMC in town that sat under a carport for years,rarely driven,that came from North Dakota..guy bought it there and drove it home to MA,and only took it out to cruise nights for a few years,one day he stopped in at the junkyard and asked if we had any trucks that vintage,but the only one we had was picked clean,no parts he needed on his left
His truck had the original 337 Pontiac V8 and 4 speed Hydra-Matic transmission..turquoise blue color,with patina..He told us he knew of another one much like his that came factory with a 322 Buick Nailhead V8 and a Hydra-Matic that was for sale in a nearby town..

I found out his truck was sold after he came across a nearly identical Suburban the same year out west, and had it trucked home..it was a NAPCO conversion factory too..same greenish blue teal color..

I wonder what he gave for that pickup truck VS what he sold it for--I bet he made enough off it to buy the Suburban and have it hauled back here ,or he'd have just kept it..

 

[CUCV2]

I assume if its a NAPCO conversion,that it has a divorced transfer case ?..that opens up a lot more possibilities as far as transmission choices..

I'm at the age where I'm wanting a simple truck,like my old '56, Chevy,only with P/S and better yet,on a square body 4x4 chassis with disc brakes..

A straight six would suit me just fine,and low gearing wouldn't bother me much ,as I've gotten used to taking back roads everywhere since I got my '82 GMC with a 6.2..and I rarely ever go far from home now any more...I prefer simple,easy to fix vehicles,that don't NEED fixing very often...something familiar I'm used too,that I grew up working on..

There was a nice '58 GMC in town that sat under a carport for years,rarely driven,that came from North Dakota..guy bought it there and drove it home to MA,and only took it out to cruise nights for a few years,one day he stopped in at the junkyard and asked if we had any trucks that vintage,but the only one we had was picked clean,no parts he needed on his left
His truck had the original 337 Pontiac V8 and 4 speed Hydra-Matic transmission..turquoise blue color,with patina..He told us he knew of another one much like his that came factory with a 322 Buick Nailhead V8 and a Hydra-Matic that was for sale in a nearby town..

I found out his truck was sold after he came across a nearly identical Suburban the same year out west, and had it trucked home..it was a NAPCO conversion factory too..same greenish blue teal color..

I wonder what he gave for that pickup truck VS what he sold it for--I bet he made enough off it to buy the Suburban and have it hauled back here ,or he'd have just kept it..

This truck is keeping the divorced tranfer case set up but I am switching the tc for a divorced NP205. Getting a shifter to work should be fun.

This truck does have a power steering conversion but if I had it to do again, I would just use a CUCV M1008 frame with the kit like Muddermilitia used on his Geronimo project. It helps change the steering box to the outside of the frame which would have made engine swapping way easier. It also opens up an endless supply of suspension, axle, and gas tank opportunities. I am pretty happy with how this is turning out but the original plan was for a Cadillac 472 to an NV4500. I'd still like to run one of those someday in another rig.

 

[diesel4me]

I had a 500 Caddy out of a '76 Coupe Deville in my shed for over 10 years,I never was able to get it in any of the vehicles I had wanted too,ended up selling it back to the friend who stored it here at first,then told me to keep it after he'd moved ,and had no place to stash it..
It ran great when pulled,and I'd turn it over by hand every month or so to keep it from seizing up..it had a good TH400 with it too,a super long tail shaft version,I had the double CV joint rear drive shaft from the car too..

He offered me $150 for "storage charges" and though I didn't really want it,he insisted..by then the TH400 on it and the engine may have gotten some damage from rust or mice,so I decided to part with it knowing I'd probably never use it..and it'd be junk if it sat much longer..
I almost put it in a '79 C-10 I had when its 250 six had the #6 piston lose chunks around the top ring land..but I ended up getting a 305 out of an '86 G-10 van to put in it instead..the 500 would likely have grenaded the 12 bolt rather quickly..

Then I had thoughts of putting it in my '81 G-10 van,but it would have required cutting the drivers side floor and adding to the dog house--there is barely enough room for 2 feet as it is factory..plus it had a 10 bolt..I put a 307 in it I had from a '73 Chevelle instead..

I found a adapter plate that lets you bolt a B-O-P Caddy engine to a Chevy transmission bell housing at a swap meet,still have it,but the torque converter bolt spacers and bolts didn't come with it..

There is one issue using a manual transmission with a 472/500 Caddy engines,they were never set up for a manual,so they didn't put a pilot bushing hole in the crankshaft...though you can drill it out and install one,I'd be leery of doing it crudely,the right way would be to have the crank machined in a lathe..

 

[CUCV2]

Went with an Exedy clutch on a recomendation from an engine guy. It looks and sounds like a quality choice.
More Information for EXEDY 04170 (rockauto.com)

 

[diesel4me]

Been at least 15 years since I did a clutch in anything,last one was the '86 VW Jetta diesel I had..I went with an LUK clutch because they had the least amount of complaints compared to other brands..

 

[CUCV2]

I had a 500 Caddy out of a '76 Coupe Deville in my shed for over 10 years,I never was able to get it in any of the vehicles I had wanted too,ended up selling it back to the friend who stored it here at first,then told me to keep it after he'd moved ,and had no place to stash it..
It ran great when pulled,and I'd turn it over by hand every month or so to keep it from seizing up..it had a good TH400 with it too,a super long tail shaft version,I had the double CV joint rear drive shaft from the car too..

He offered me $150 for "storage charges" and though I didn't really want it,he insisted..by then the TH400 on it and the engine may have gotten some damage from rust or mice,so I decided to part with it knowing I'd probably never use it..and it'd be junk if it sat much longer..
I almost put it in a '79 C-10 I had when its 250 six had the #6 piston lose chunks around the top ring land..but I ended up getting a 305 out of an '86 G-10 van to put in it instead..the 500 would likely have grenaded the 12 bolt rather quickly..

Then I had thoughts of putting it in my '81 G-10 van,but it would have required cutting the drivers side floor and adding to the dog house--there is barely enough room for 2 feet as it is factory..plus it had a 10 bolt..I put a 307 in it I had from a '73 Chevelle instead..

I found a adapter plate that lets you bolt a B-O-P Caddy engine to a Chevy transmission bell housing at a swap meet,still have it,but the torque converter bolt spacers and bolts didn't come with it..

There is one issue using a manual transmission with a 472/500 Caddy engines,they were never set up for a manual,so they didn't put a pilot bushing hole in the crankshaft...though you can drill it out and install one,I'd be leery of doing it crudely,the right way would be to have the crank machined in a lathe..

Been at least 15 years since I did a clutch in anything,last one was the '86 VW Jetta diesel I had..I went with an LUK clutch because they had the least amount of complaints compared to other brands..

Did you ever see the HP / TQ numbers for the Cadillac 500? Pretty amazing. I wonder what's involved with converting the Cadillac TH400 to 4wd.

 

[diesel4me]

The "best" 500's were ones built in 1970--that year had the highest compression and put out 400 HP @ 4400 rpm and 550 Ft/lbs at 3000 rpms..every year after that,they reduced the compression ratio and added smog controls,different heads,etc, and HP & torque went down quite a bit..

After 1972 GM started measuring the torque & HP a different way,which dropped both numbers dramatically..instead of dyno testing at the flywheel with no accessories hooked up,they went to measuring it at the rear wheels with the vehicle in driveable condition..

The '76 engine I had was rated at only 190 HP @3600 rpm and 360 ft/lbs @2000 rpm...this was close to a '74 454 I had,that had 235 HP @ 4000 rpms and 360 ft/lbs @ 2400 rpms...so the Caddy engine in stock form would have been about equal to a post '74 BBC 454 in stock form..

Converting the TH400 from the Caddy to a 4x4 version would require removing the super long rear output shaft,and replacing it with a 4x4 length rear output shaft to match whatever transfer case your using,along with the TH400 adapter to T-case ..if you wanted it to be "married" to the transfer case as in stock configuration..

Some year NP-205's used the same output shaft as a 2WD car or pickup had,they had a "deep input" ,so in that case you wouldn't need a 4x4 output shaft,just the "short tail" type used on 2wd vehicles..unfortunately the super long output used on Caddy TH400's has to be replaced with either the 2wd one or one for a 4x4 NP-205 if it has the short input ,to match up with the transfer case..

In a divorced transfer case setup you may be able to use the Caddy TH400 as-is,if there is enough room for the super long output shaft and the required short drive shaft to connect it to the transfer case..
I have seen a few trucks that had divorced NP-205's and they used just the CV yoke and slip yoke with two u-joints to connect the transmission to the transfer case,that is only about 6" overall length..
There are two of them on most Caddy rear drive shafts ,that may work as-is ,the transfer case would need a bolt on input yoke that matches the u-joints..

 

[CUCV2]

The "best" 500's were ones built in 1970--that year had the highest compression and put out 400 HP @ 4400 rpm and 550 Ft/lbs at 3000 rpms..every year after that,they reduced the compression ratio and added smog controls,different heads,etc, and HP & torque went down quite a bit..

After 1972 GM started measuring the torque & HP a different way,which dropped both numbers dramatically..instead of dyno testing at the flywheel with no accessories hooked up,they went to measuring it at the rear wheels with the vehicle in driveable condition..

The '76 engine I had was rated at only 190 HP @3600 rpm and 360 ft/lbs @2000 rpm...this was close to a '74 454 I had,that had 235 HP @ 4000 rpms and 360 ft/lbs @ 2400 rpms...so the Caddy engine in stock form would have been about equal to a post '74 BBC 454 in stock form..

Converting the TH400 from the Caddy to a 4x4 version would require removing the super long rear output shaft,and replacing it with a 4x4 length rear output shaft to match whatever transfer case your using,along with the TH400 adapter to T-case ..if you wanted it to be "married" to the transfer case as in stock configuration..

Some year NP-205's used the same output shaft as a 2WD car or pickup had,they had a "deep input" ,so in that case you wouldn't need a 4x4 output shaft,just the "short tail" type used on 2wd vehicles..unfortunately the super long output used on Caddy TH400's has to be replaced with either the 2wd one or one for a 4x4 NP-205 if it has the short input ,to match up with the transfer case..

In a divorced transfer case setup you may be able to use the Caddy TH400 as-is,if there is enough room for the super long output shaft and the required short drive shaft to connect it to the transfer case..
I have seen a few trucks that had divorced NP-205's and they used just the CV yoke and slip yoke with two u-joints to connect the transmission to the transfer case,that is only about 6" overall length..
There are two of them on most Caddy rear drive shafts ,that may work as-is ,the transfer case would need a bolt on input yoke that matches the u-joints..View attachment 365973

Sounds like you had it figured out with the adapter to just use a 4L80e. Way easier and opens up a lot more options. I was thinking about using it in a CUCV and using the existing TH400 to convert the Caddy TH400 to 4wd. If it was meant to be, i would have one by now.

 

[max 02]

The joys of working in Winter weather, haha. Summers around here are usually super busy with the things I would rather do in warmer weather. Winter usually ends up with the projects I know are going to require more research/time. I've changed my mind four times with the 59 GMC as to which particular drivetrain to put in it. I'm currently at a stage where I think the beauty of it is it's simplicity and lack of technology. But it definitely needs an ]The joys of working in Winter weather, haha. Summers around here are usually super busy with the things I would rather do in warmer weather. Winter usually ends up with the projects I know are going to require more research/time. I've changed my mind four times with the 59 GMC as to which particular drivetrain to put in it. I'm currently at a stage where I think the beauty of it is it's simplicity and lack of technology. But it definitely needs an OD because it has 4.56 gears in the NAPCO axles. Even with OD it will still probably be in the higher RPMS but it certainly was not built for speed anyways.

Have you posted pictures of the truck anywhere!?

 

[CUCV2]

Have you posted pictures of the truck anywhere!?

I should start a build thread for it but progress was so slow that it hardly seemed worth it. That and it is a fairly blah build. I got it from AZ as just a frame and body. Found a complete parts truck here that was rusted out and put the two together. It's more of an 89 Crew Cab than an 87. There are some pics of it in another build thread I had for an 84 crew cab. It's called the 84 crew cab whatever build. Here's a few pics of when it first got here. The axles were just rollers.

 

[CUCV2]

There's no good pics of the empty engine bay because the hood latch cable was broken. I poked a camera in there to get this one. It was a PITA to get the hood open. Thankfully, there was no grill. If I remember correctly, I ground the nuts off the hood latch so that it lifted with the hood. I used an 89-91 grill later.

 

[max 02]

I should start a build thread for it but progress was so slow that it hardly seemed worth it. That and it is a fairly blah build. I got it from AZ as just a frame and body. Found a complete parts truck here that was rusted out and put the two together. It's more of an 89 Crew Cab than an 87. There are some pics of it in another build thread I had for an 84 crew cab. It's called the 84 crew cab whatever build. Here's a few pics of when it first got here. The axles were just rollers.

View attachment 366039

View attachment 366040

View attachment 366041

View attachment 366042

Nice! I like crew cabs!

I was asking about the 59 GMC Napco truck. I had a 66 GMC Napco truck a long time ago. They are just cool!

 

[CUCV2]

Nice! I like crew cabs!

I was asking about the 59 GMC Napco truck. I had a 66 GMC Napco truck a long time ago. They are just cool!

Well I just found a link for the 84 Whatever build too. There is a fairly current pic of the brown crew cab on post 100.
84 Crew Cab Whatever Build | Page 5 | CK5 Forums
Maybe I could start a build on the 59 sometime if I could ever get a drivetrain I liked, lol. When I get it running I'll post pics. Anyone have any tips on how to clean out a gas tank that hasn't been used in 30 years .

l

 

[diesel4me]

Chances are the fuel tank will leak if its original and been empty that long,by the time you get any rust or varnished fuel residue out of it..

Some radiator shops locally used to take old gas tanks and put them in the hot tank solution to get all the rust & crud out,however all of them have gone out of business in recent years..

One guy on a tractor forum says he uses battery electrolyte (battery acid) from old batteries or buys fresh acid from a parts store,he's shown the results and the inside of the tanks look brand new again,but some do develop pinhole leaks and had to be coated with gas tank sealer..
If the cost of a new tank isn't that ridiculous (and there are any available),then replacing it may be a better option..
Most every GM truck I've owned needed a new tank or to be patched after 5 years where I live..