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Offset ball joints to fix caster..

mofugly13

mofugly13

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I have a 99 Jeep grand cherokee that I'm trying to get the caster into spec. I'm at 4.3 degrees and I should be at 6.75.

The fix is to use offset ball joints. But, there are both upper, and lower offset joints and I dont know if I need one, the other, or a combination of both. Just thinking about the geometry of it, it seems like there would be binding if replacing only one with an offset one.

Does anyone have any knowledge about offset ball joints and using them properly?
 
Personally I think that’s plenty of caster. I wouldn’t bother. Just going to make your u-joint angle worse
 
The offset ball joints are for fixing caster without altering the pinion angle. Spec is +6.0-+7.5.

I've done a lot of reading on the commons. Jeep DW issue, and while there is no single k own for sure fix, a common thread in everything I've seen says that spec caster angle is important. Chrysler even put out a TSB addressing caster angles, and the fix was offset ball joints.
 
You can only move the ball joints so far before it effects the axle shaft u joints.
 
I get it. I wrongly assumed pinion u-joint, not axle u joint. So, it would seem that if i wanted 2 degrees of correction, i should use both upper and lower ball joints each with 1 degree of offset, and it seems like this should keep the rotation of the bnb steering knuckle revolve around the axis of the axle and cause no weird angles on the axle shaft u joints.
 
mofugly13 said:
I get it. I wrongly assumed pinion u-joint, not axle u joint. So, it would seem that if i wanted 2 degrees of correction, i should use both upper and lower ball joints each with 1 degree of offset, and it seems like this should keep the rotation of the bnb steering knuckle revolve around the axis of the axle and cause no weird angles on the axle shaft u joints.
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I have never seen anyone use offset ball joints to fix caster, usually you use them to fix camber. Caster is much easier with turning the axle.
As for the geometry it doesn't matter how offset the ball joint is the axis will be from joint to joint no binding or funny behavior
 
Never messed with a wj, but I can say I’ve done a few zj’s. And I own one. My buddies zj had a 4” short arm kit and it death wobbled like no ones business. Had the caster cranked up as high as he could get it (around 5 something.) knocked the caster down to 3 and no more wobble. My exwifes zj was stock and developed death wobble. I replaced the control arms and track bar and back to greatness.
My zj had death wobble when I got it. Put a long arm kit on it and you can’t get it to wobble even if you hit a curb.
 
I have professionally fixed jeep death wobble for years. Offset ball joints are not the answer. Always think there is something else at play but if the rest of the system is in good condition then 6.5 degrees is great for a rig with large tires and a tall kit. If it is stock then we need to talk more.
 
It's at 4.3 degrees. I'd be shooting for 6-6.3 degrees with the offset joints.

It has a 3" spring lift which included a new adjustable track bar and shocks.
The Tie rod ends, drag link ends, ball joints and wheel bearing hubs are all new. Torque has been check, check and rechecked on all these components. The death wobble started after the lift. I "fixed" by adjusting the toe out a full turn on the tie rod. It went away for a couple hundred miles bit always felt like it wanted to start DW. Then I took it for a proper alignment and after that DW returned. Since, I've replace all the aforementioned parts. Only parts left are the steering box and control arms
 
That's exactly what it needs. A good full kit would have come with em and they are only a half inch or less longer.
 
mofugly13 said:
It's at 4.3 degrees. I'd be shooting for 6-6.3 degrees with the offset joints.

It has a 3" spring lift which included a new adjustable track bar and shocks.
The Tie rod ends, drag link ends, ball joints and wheel bearing hubs are all new. Torque has been check, check and rechecked on all these components. The death wobble started after the lift. I "fixed" by adjusting the toe out a full turn on the tie rod. It went away for a couple hundred miles bit always felt like it wanted to start DW. Then I took it for a proper alignment and after that DW returned. Since, I've replace all the aforementioned parts. Only parts left are the steering box and control arms
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By the way your fix is not a bad fix, when you change things to get a lift and you don't have a fully designed lift, little tweaks are needed like adjusting the toe to a non stock value.
It's better to get the longer control arms to fix it better but don't think that your fix was not a good one.
Eventually it could wear out the tires a little off, but in some cases it is the only fix.
Not here though.
 
jeeps + cheep kits for lift = oh crap here come the problems .

3" lift springs and stock arms = whats messing with your caster big time.

super short wheel base rigs always walk a fine line with even small lift kits .
 
FWIW, it was not a cheap kit. But it did have a good long discussion at the end of the install instructions about the importance of bringing caster back to 6 degrees. But the "cheap" factor is on me in that I didnt spring for the full kit.

The only reason I didnt decide to go to with adjustable control arms is because supposedly there's an issue with Heeps and pinion angles being too far off. But then again, that's the info I get from jeep sites.....and they've been no help otherwise.

Anyways, as always, CK5 delivers. Sorry to have spoiled the Garage with Heep questions, but my same question on jeepforum is still hearing crickets. You guys are the best.
 
who's kit was it ?

and if your getting mutiple places / people saying 6-6.5 then this is the direction i would start for sure .

its just the adjustable ball joints have a few bad things on them . 1= not stocked at most places order only if you need replacement asap . 2= not a lot of alignment techs no how to deal with them unless there use to custom parts on modified rides . 3= jeeps eat ball joints and pop them off the knuckles anyway with bigger tires = faster you will need to replace or service them . not saying dont use them . just understand this and pick wisely .
 
Fastereddie, who's kit is that? Looks nice.
Sweet K30, it's an Iron Rock Offroad kit.

I can get them from Rock Auto. I keep thinking about the geometry of all this, and it seems to me that if I want to adjust 2 degrees, I need to get 2 degree joints on the top and bottom, so that when the knuckle 'rotates'that 2 degrees, it does so around the axis of the axle.

That's really what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. Since the upper is really a pin joint and not an articulating joint, there will be binding there if I only offset one or the other.

I only went to 32" tires. If that matters....
 
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