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Oh what the head gasket!

There is no way I would put $950 into those heads, those prices are still pretty high. No way, I would do it myself, or buy different heads. But to put $950 into those heads seams rediculous. You can have a whole different set of american heads and sell those for a couple hundred bucks with broken springs and come out ahead.

As low of miles as they have you could lap the valves with a $5 tool and some paste and it may be better than a new valve job just because it's hand lapped. Now if the heads had high miles then you would need a valve job.

One thing you would need besides a valve spring compressor is a height micrometer, or other way to measure installed height. I use one from Mills Specialty products, Doug Mills is the guy who invented the valve spring height mic(a friend of my fathers and races pro mod in FL now), and the patent has ran out now, but he still makes them in the US out of stainless steel, better quality for a measurement tool than the aluminum a lot of the foreign copies are made out of now. Although I have used a nice simple flat 6" rule to measure spring heights back before I had a height mic, you had to be careful and it wasn't as accurate but it was better than nothing.

Or you could just buy new heads, sell those broken, and be better off.
 
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folkenheath said:
There is no way I would put $950 into those heads, those prices are still pretty high. No way, I would do it myself, or buy different heads. But to put $950 into those heads seams rediculous. You can have a whole different set of american heads and sell those for a couple hundred bucks with broken springs and come out ahead.

As low of miles as they have you could lap the valves with a $5 tool and some paste and it may be better than a new valve job just because it's hand lapped. Now if the heads had high miles then you would need a valve job.

One thing you would need besides a valve spring compressor is a height micrometer, or other way to measure installed height. I use one from Mills Specialty products, Doug Mills is the guy who invented the valve spring height mic(a friend of my fathers and races pro mod in FL now), and the patent has ran out now, but he still makes them in the US out of stainless steel, better quality for a measurement tool than the aluminum a lot of the foreign copies are made out of now. Although I have used a nice simple flat 6" rule to measure spring heights back before I had a height mic.

Or you could just buy new heads, sell those broken, and be better off.
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If I do get new heads, should I up the intake runner volume at take further advange of the cam or leave it at 185cc?

80' 427 said:
buy something like these that flow good and are quality. Cast Iron isn't a bad word.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WRL-011150-3/
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Those Sportsman IIs don't flow as well as the Patriots
 
Well, I really hate to toss another gerbil into this butthole, but have you laid a straight edge on the block?

If the block is not true, those aluminum heads would tend to warp when tightened down..........
 
Fordum said:
Well, I really hate to toss another gerbil into this butthole, but have you laid a straight edge on the block?

If the block is not true, those aluminum heads would tend to warp when tightened down..........
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:doah:I better go do that now... cross your fingers... :doah:
 
80' 427 said:
Cast Iron isn't a bad word.
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iron is a 4 letter word when it comes to heads. :D

Chevy305 said:
If I do get new heads, should I up the intake runner volume at take further advange of the cam or leave it at 185cc?
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That's still a 355 not a stroker right? And your cam is still relatively small, I would say stick with that head size, you aren't revving it that high. If you had a stroker then I would up it to 200 cc, but if you stay you could always port them later if you want to. I am going to guess the larger heads don't flow that much more at your lift numbers.
 
Who showed what the current heads flow? I flowed some Procomps on my flowbench and they pretty much sucked. HUGE heads did flow more but that is just common sense. I said it before but you all ignore me. I have a 355 with vortecs with some port work that made 325 whp with a 2bbl at 6500. It could easily have pushed 350 with a 750. The 325 is right around 450hp. I have yet to see a 160-185cc head flow as well as a vortec head. Unless it is an AFR.
 
I got some problems... the block isn't straight :(
At the #7 (the leaking cylinder) I can fit a 0.002" feeler gauge under the straight edge on the lower part of the deck.
I guess I gotta get the block decked now...

F*CK ME!!!!!
 
I think .002" is within a tolerance that you are OK, as long as you aren't using a super thin gasket. But I'd have to look it up to be sure. Is that the worst place? I'd definitely be darn sure I knew the exact number because it was leaking there. My old 355 block wasn't perfect, but with a normal .041" gasket and resurfaced heads it still sealed fine.
 
folkenheath said:
I think .002" is within a tolerance that you are OK, as long as you aren't using a super thin gasket. But I'd have to look it up to be sure. Is that the worst place? I'd definitely be darn sure I knew the exact number because it was leaking there. My old 355 block wasn't perfect, but with a normal .041" gasket and resurfaced heads it still sealed fine.
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ya that's the worst place. The heads call for a 0.015" gasket. However I had been running a 0.024" Jegs brand gasket. Are those going to be too thin?
 
80' 427 said:
I said it before but you all ignore me. I have a 355 with vortecs with some port work that made 325 whp with a 2bbl at 6500.
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Thats because we just don't care about 2 barrels! :D

Seriously though, I wasn't ignoring it, that is good considering the circumstances, but if he had a vortec intake then some E-tec 200s or GM fastburns (Which are 215 cc, kind of large for his combo) would be even better than vortecs, I agree, the new combustion chamber technology is good too. But if he's getting a new intake and new heads again, he might as well build a 6.0 and have a 15 degree heads to start with. Or even better, a big block!

Personally I think AFRs are over rated from advertising. If you go to the track you see mostly Dart and Brodix. AFR is good quality, and they might flow good, but flow isn't everything. Wet flow matters and runner velocity matters too, and I bet the darts will make more power than the AFRs all things equal. And I mean apples to apples, if you're using CNC ports then compare the same versions of both.
 
That blows :doah: fyi if you get new heads, my buddy ordered a set of dart pro1 series prolly 2 months ago through summit. Still havnt showed up. He called summit after a week and said they talked to dart and said they still had to make them... Idk why it would take months to machine a set of heads from a company that builds heads..... Unless they are lying and there castings are actually made in china with usa stamped on them and they are waiting for those...... I know companies that do it but claim its all made here
 
Deuling said:
That blows :doah: fyi if you get new heads, my buddy ordered a set of dart pro1 series prolly 2 months ago through summit. Still havnt showed up. He called summit after a week and said they talked to dart and said they still had to make them... Idk why it would take months to machine a set of heads from a company that builds heads..... Unless they are lying and there castings are actually made in china with usa stamped on them and they are waiting for those...... I know companies that do it but claim its all made here
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Don't start false rumors like that Deuling, I agree it sucks his heads haven't arrived yet, but Dart has their casting made from T355 aluminum in the states by a company that casts for the aerospace industry. They are actually one of the few companies that use the more expensive 355 alloy instead of the 356, which is why they don't need thread inserts from the get go, and also why they can be lighter because the material is stronger. Most of their machining is done in melvindale, mi, some of the CNC porting and R&D stuff is done in Troy MI, I've been to that plant because I know one of the guys who work there. And my cousins have been to the plant in melvindale. You are correct in the fact that they do not cast on their own, it is a different company. Edelbrock has their own foundary and casts themselves, not with T355, 356 is good too, just not as good.
 
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Didnt mean to start a rumor or anything. Just was a thought. I just don't get why it would take so damn long to get a set of heads... :dunno:
 
Deuling said:
Didnt mean to start a rumor or anything. Just was a thought. I just don't get why it would take so damn long to get a set of heads... :dunno:
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Yeah, I agree with you there. Dart isn't as big as edelbrock, and that information is valid right now, if they don't have them in stock, it wouldn't be good since he already has it tore apart.
 
Chevy305 said:
ya that's the worst place. The heads call for a 0.015" gasket. However I had been running a 0.024" Jegs brand gasket. Are those going to be too thin?
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Thats a good question, its hard to say. It may not be worth the tiny gain in compression for the possibility of blowing a gasket. How far is your piston in the hole at TDC?

It's kind of dumb the head company calls for a thin gasket when they have no idea what your quench is. That could be a recipe for disaster.
 
folkenheath said:
Thats a good question, its hard to say. It may not be worth the tiny gain in compression for the possibility of blowing a gasket. How far is your piston in the hole at TDC?

It's kind of dumb the head company calls for a thin gasket when they have no idea what your quench is. That could be a recipe for disaster.
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I believe it was 0.06" when I assembled it. I might want to double check it to verify though.

Well I have no idea what my quench is either :doah:
 
.060"? Thats a lot! Your quench is simply the depth the piston is in the hole plus your compressed gasket thickness. If you want you can use my calculator to calculate your actual compression from the center of gravity area. Although I may have to email it to you since I don't have comcast any more as of last weekend, I need a new place to host it from so people can download it again.
 
80' 427 said:
Who showed what the current heads flow? I flowed some Procomps on my flowbench and they pretty much sucked. HUGE heads did flow more but that is just common sense.
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You have your own flow bench? Thats sweet, what do you do?
 
folkenheath said:
.060"? Thats a lot! Your quench is simply the depth the piston is in the hole plus your compressed gasket thickness. If you want you can use my calculator to calculate your actual compression from the center of gravity area. Although I may have to email it to you since I don't have comcast any more as of last weekend, I need a new place to host it from so people can download it again.
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Never mind, just measured it..

0.036"

I don't know where I got the .060 :doah:
 
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