Optima batteries, 4/10/18...battery status update

[76zimmer]

Now your battery is more famous than you.

Hey you focker, just wait....I'll be famous someday even if it is for the wrong reasons....I'm sure everyone in the area will remember my self induced antifreeze shower....yeah how bout that?
And I'm sure I have better coming in the future too. you'll see.

 

[cybrfire]

Hey you focker, just wait....I'll be infamous someday even if it is for the wrong reasons....I'm sure everyone in the area will remember my self induced antifreeze shower....yeah how bout that?
And I'm sure I have better coming in the future too. you'll see.

There, fixed it for you.

 

[blazin_blazer]

optimajim, i'm about ready to put new batteries in my daily driver shop truck, it is a demo vehicle for alot of the audio equipment that we offer. i've always been told that when doing a dual battery install to use identical batteries together. is this also the case w/agm batteries or can i use a small red top to power/start the vehicle & a large yellow top on the auidio equipment? would there be any trouble w/powering the head unit/reciever/EQ off the stock dash wiring(red top), while the amps are connected off of the AUX BAT(yellow top)?

 

[OptimaJim]

blazin blazer, if you are not isolating dual (or multiple) batteries, they do need to be the same age, size and type. If you isolate the batteries, you can use a RedTop for starting and a YellowTop for your auxiliary needs. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

[76zimmer]

Jim, what about keeping a battery maintenance charger on them when sitting idle for so long. I have a Battery Tender on a non AGM battery and it has been doing great that way for 4 years now. I have a Battery Butler on my Yellow top (still hasn't been put in service) sitting on the bench. The BB puts out 14 amps @ 300-400ma charging rate.
This battery is the only one on circuit with this charger.

What are your thoughts on proper charging techniques for each type of battery?

 

[nsxxtreme]

The reason is that many owners of occasional-use vehicles don’t bother to use tenders/maintainers or at least check and maintain their voltage and disconnect the battery when storing it for extended periods of time. This leads to sulfation, decreases performance and shortens battery life.

All new RedTops and YellowTops do come with three-year replacement warranties. If you have any other questions, please don’t hesitate to ask!

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

And battery tenders boil off the water. The only difference being your battery will start your car the following year. That has been my experience anyway. Battery tenders shorten the life of the battery too but not as short as if you just let it sit.

I've bought a couple red tops My range rover has a red top and my acura nsx has a red top. The NSX sits the RR is daily driven. The NSX has gone through 3 batteries in about 7 years which its always on a battery tender. The RR battery has been replaced twice. I left the head lights on and it was toast. The red tops just dont recover from being drained.

My boat has a cheap GI joe special deep cycle battery and has lasted 4 years so far. My blazer has a cheap Les schwab battery the blazer always kills the battery if I let it sit. It has about 250mA of current drain when off so no surprise there. But the cheap Les schwab battery always charges back up when put on a charger.

I buy Optima's because they are sealed and I dont want the acid leaking inside the car. But other then that they don't seem to hold up when compared against cheaper alternatives. If they only last 3 years as every other battery then its hard to justify the premium price. These batteries used to be bullet proof which is the reason a lot of us keep buying them. If they have to be pampered like every other battery they lose there appeal. That's my opinion anyway.

The trick I use on the blazer is just to pop the door open. The dome light presents enough load to keep the battery charging. My charger does however have a mode to desulfate a battery just haven't had to use it on the blazer. It would be nice to cross section an old Optima vs a "new" one. It would be interesting to see the size and quantity of the plates.

 

[ryoken]

I'll take a Lifeline over an Optima anyday... not cheap, but either are Optima's..

 

[OptimaJim]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]nsxxtreme, if a battery charger is “boiling” a battery, it either does not have voltage regulation or the voltage regulator is not functioning properly. These types of chargers are not recommended for long-term battery maintenance and they could shorten the life of a battery, if left unmonitored. Voltage-regulated(microprocessor-controlled) tenders and maintainers will extend the life of any battery. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Traditional "float" chargers provide a constant voltage with tapering amperage to the battery, even when it is fully-charged. These are OK, but not preferred. For float charging, we recommend 1 amp max, 13.2-13.8 volts. For regular charging, we recommend 10 amps max, 13.8-15 volts. Generally speaking, fully-automatic "multi-stage or multi-step" chargers, which monitor the battery and charge it as necessary, are the preferred option. Multi-stage maintainers will charge at varying voltages and varying amperage (rarely exceeding 2 amps) and some of these multi-step chargers are also capable of being regular battery chargers (7 amps or more).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Since there are many great battery maintainer/chargers on the market, we do not have the capability of testing each one. We do not “officially” endorse specific maintainers or chargers, but we will supply information about devices that are advertised as being compatible with AGM batteries, including the CTEK MULTI US 7000 or 7002, the Interacter EX (12 volt 6 amp model), and the PulseTech Xtreme XC100.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]We typically suggest an acceptable current draw on a battery is about 25 milliamps and encourage people to review their electrical system if their draw exceeds 100 milliamps. A 250 milliamp draw means a battery is being discharged at a rate of 6 amps (.250 x 24 hours) per day. If it is a 34/78 RedTop, the Capacity rating is 50 amps. This means the battery will be dead (0% state of charge), if it sits for just over 8 days (50/6) without any charge going to the battery. These calculations assume the battery is fully-charged when it is parked (most are not) and does not take into consideration climate, which can shorten (extreme temperatures) or lengthen (moderate temps) these timeframes.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]It should be noted that vehicles and engines will require a minimum voltage to start, which probably is something above 0% state of charge. Using these numbers, if a vehicle only drew 35 milliamps, it could sit for almost 70 days before the battery died. It's also worth mentioning that even if a battery does not sit long enough to completely discharge (which would be about two to three days in nsxxtreme's case), this repeated partial discharge, and the sulfation that will be caused by the battery resting in a discharged state, will cause long-term reductions in performance and life. This is why we emphasize the importance of maintaining 12.4 volts and recommend a maintenance charger for any vehicle that is not used regularly.[/FONT]


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

[nsxxtreme]

Hi Jim,

My NSX sits 360 days out of the year. It has a red top and is constantly connected to a battery tender. I don't recall which brand I'll have to look. I don't know what caused the Optima battery to fail in this car as its a sealed battery and I wasn't going to open it. My reference is my Jet skis that also use a lead acid battery and sits for about 10 months on the same brand of battery tender. I recently purchased a boat so those skis sat for 2 years. Batteries where new before I stopped using them. When I took them out to sell, the batteries were completely dry. Being connected to the battery tender 24/7 I believe ran those batteries dry. Maybe I'll look into one of those other battery tenders you listed.

My Blazer which I know has a large current draw has a generic lead acid battery from Les Schwabb. I use the blazer so rarely that I'm to lazy to go out and figure out where the current draw is comming from. For the most part I disconnect the battery when it's not in use. But sometime I forget and it goes dead in about 6-8 days. I put it on the charger and it's bounced back about 6 or 7 times this year and probably the same amount last year. I know this isn't the proper way to care for a battery. I'm just stating how robust some generic batteries are.

My Range Rover which also has a red top battery has this stupid thing where when you turn the key off it shuts your head lights off and leaves the running light on. This is supposed to be so that when you then turn the head light switch off it turn the headlights back on for 60 sec to light your way. Well sometimes I get out of the truck the lights are off and I just walk in the house not realizing the running lights are on. Get up in the morning dead battery. Optima batteries just don't recover well from this. I've replaced 2 of these batteries in the RR so far. Suprisingly enough the Optima is considered a "cheap" alternative to buying an actual Range Rover battery. I purchased my Optima batteries from Costco and haven't had any problems returning Optima's.

My love for Optima's probably like others originated in the early 90's I was into car stereo's and needed a strong battery. I've used other premium brands like stinger dry cell batteries and such but Optima's always held up to a beating well and kept ticking so much better then other batteries. I agree with some of the others that that doesn't appear to be the case anymore. Its a premium battery with a premium price but offers less then premium performance. JMO.

 

[OptimaJim]

Hi nsxxtreme, I would be interested in hearing what type of charger and charger settings you were using, as well as the voltage of the batteries when they were deemed to have failed. Thanks!

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

[nsxxtreme]

Hi nsxxtreme, I would be interested in hearing what type of charger and charger settings you were using, as well as the voltage of the batteries when they were deemed to have failed. Thanks!

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

The charger is a black and decker "smart charger" the 25 amp model. It supposedly has a desulfate mode as well as some other mode to bring back dead batteries. I have used the desulfate mode once on a lead acid battery and it was worthless IMO. I had better luck just leaving the door open so the dome light would provide a load to keep the charger on. This has worked every time on the blazer.

I'll check the battery tender brand when I get home. I know its not a fancy one. I think I paid $25 for it. Does have a "float" mode though.

On the NSX battery that was dead I believe the voltage was 12V just wouldn't hold any current. The Range Rover dead battery was around 10V I believe, obviously dead from leaving the lights on. The Blazer battery is also 10V when it goes dead.

 

[OptimaJim]

Black & Decker makes a lot of different chargers, could you narrow it down with a model number? In looking at some of their 25-amp models, there are some that feature a 75-amp start setting. For regular charging, we recommend a maximum of 10 amps at 13.8-15 volts. When any battery is charged at higher amperage rates, the battery can very easily be damaged by the charger. When batteries are overcharged, they can vent, which can lead to the “dry” battery you described. When a tech leaves a door open and drains a customer's battery, a 200-amp shop charger will get the car started and out of the shop. However, in many of those situations, the battery will have been damaged or the alternator will not be able to recharge the battery, leading to a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the battery or alternator fails.

Many battery chargers will not recognize or charge any battery that has been deeply-discharged. The voltage threshold varies, but we usually suggest parallel charging if a battery has been discharged below 10.5 volts. When you fully-charged the battery in your NSX, the voltage would only get to 12.0 volts? How long did you charge the battery and what amperage charge did you use?


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

[76zimmer]

Jim, can you recommend a maintenance charge rate for your batteries that see extended times (4 weeks or more at a time) of non-use. I presently have 3 chargers that provide charging and maintenance modes. They range from .5 amp Battery Butler with charging/maintenance modes (for the Yellow top I just got from you guys not in use yet) .75amp charging rate (Battery tender Jr. for my motorcycle) to a 2 amp with charging and maintenance modes (Black and Decker for my Vette Interstate 850cca lead acid battery)

 

[original balzer]

Ok so I have read several times that a 10 amp charge is the max recommended.... so where does that leave modern alternators? I know my wrangler has 120 amp alternator while some of that is used to operate the vehicle how would a person know how many amps is recharging the battery?

-Now my personal experience with optima started years ago while working in a junk yard. We used to find the optimas and throw them on a charger for several days to recover them and they would work fine after that. I cant remember one ever being junk (as in not taking a charge). I do remember having a room where we charged the batteries and not being able to walk on the actual floor at one point LOL.

As far as the johnson take over it just seams they are easier to drain than before. But so far every one I have owned will "recover" with a long parallel charge.

*A thought to consider* back when I worked in the junk yard my vehicles where simple, carb, HEI, sometimes a small stereo system and sometimes some KC off road lights. Modern vehicles with computers and fuel injection and power everything defiantly have higher power demands than what I used to drive. So maybe the battery isn't easier to drain as much as I simply use a lot more power.

 

[OptimaJim]

Hi Dave, there are two types of maintenance chargers, fully-automatic “multi-stage” or “multi-step” chargers, which monitor the battery and charge it as necessary and traditional “float” chargers, which provide constant voltage with tapering amperage to the battery, even when fully-charged. Multi-stage maintainers will charge at varying voltages and varying amperage (rarely exceeding 2 amps) and are preferred for our batteries. For float-charging, we recommend a maximum rate of 1 amp, 13.2-13.8 volts. These chargers are ok too, just not preferred.

Balzer, the voltage regulator and load placed on an alternator determines amperage output, which could be 10 amps or 100 amps (if an alternator is rated that high). Alternators will only produce the current necessary to maintain a battery's target voltage. With the engine idling and no load on a charging system (lights and all accessories off, battery fully-charged), the amperage output of an alternator will be relatively-low and could be less than 10 amps. With the headlights and heater blower fan on and the engine running at 2,000 rpm, the output can jump to 25-30 amps.

Since alternators are voltage-regulated, their output is typically less than 15 volts, with most being around 14.4 volts. We do indicate in our charging information for cyclic applications, that at 14.7 volts, there is no current limit, as long as the battery temperature remains below 125°F (which can be challenging with extremely high-amperage flow). The additional capacity of alternators really comes into play when accessories like winches, large stereos or auxiliary lighting place heavy electrical demands on the system.

You are absolutely correct about the additional electrical demands modern vehicles place on batteries. Accessories like car alarms, satellite radio, navigation systems, TVs, and multiple accessory jacks for everyone to plug their toys into have also contributed to these increases. If anyone has any other questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

[76zimmer]

Hi Dave, there are two types of maintenance chargers, fully-automatic “multi-stage” or “multi-step” chargers, which monitor the battery and charge it as necessary and traditional “float” chargers, which provide constant voltage with tapering amperage to the battery, even when fully-charged. Multi-stage maintainers will charge at varying voltages and varying amperage (rarely exceeding 2 amps) and are preferred for our batteries. For float-charging, we recommend a maximum rate of 1 amp, 13.2-13.8 volts. These chargers are ok too, just not preferred.

Balzer, the voltage regulator and load placed on an alternator determines amperage output, which could be 10 amps or 100 amps (if an alternator is rated that high). Alternators will only produce the current necessary to maintain a battery's target voltage. With the engine idling and no load on a charging system (lights and all accessories off, battery fully-charged), the amperage output of an alternator will be relatively-low and could be less than 10 amps. With the headlights and heater blower fan on and the engine running at 2,000 rpm, the output can jump to 25-30 amps.

Since alternators are voltage-regulated, their output is typically less than 15 volts, with most being around 14.4 volts. We do indicate in our charging information for cyclic applications, that at 14.7 volts, there is no current limit, as long as the battery temperature remains below 125°F (which can be challenging with extremely high-amperage flow). The additional capacity of alternators really comes into play when accessories like winches, large stereos or auxiliary lighting place heavy electrical demands on the system.

You are absolutely correct about the additional electrical demands modern vehicles place on batteries. Accessories like car alarms, satellite radio, navigation systems, TVs, and multiple accessory jacks for everyone to plug their toys into have also contributed to these increases. If anyone has any other questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatterieshttp://www.facebook.com/optimabatterieshttp://www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

thanks again Jim.

 

[nsxxtreme]

Black & Decker makes a lot of different chargers, could you narrow it down with a model number? In looking at some of their 25-amp models, there are some that feature a 75-amp start setting. For regular charging, we recommend a maximum of 10 amps at 13.8-15 volts. When any battery is charged at higher amperage rates, the battery can very easily be damaged by the charger. When batteries are overcharged, they can vent, which can lead to the “dry” battery you described. When a tech leaves a door open and drains a customer's battery, a 200-amp shop charger will get the car started and out of the shop. However, in many of those situations, the battery will have been damaged or the alternator will not be able to recharge the battery, leading to a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the battery or alternator fails.

Many battery chargers will not recognize or charge any battery that has been deeply-discharged. The voltage threshold varies, but we usually suggest parallel charging if a battery has been discharged below 10.5 volts. When you fully-charged the battery in your NSX, the voltage would only get to 12.0 volts? How long did you charge the battery and what amperage charge did you use?

I believe this is the charger I have VEC1095ABD 2/10/25/75 Amp Smart Car Charger. I usually charge with 10 amps and then follow up with a 2 amp charge. 12 volts isn't the maximum voltage it's what I would call the static voltage after its been off the charger for an hour or so. The trick I use is just to leave a door open. The dome light is enough of a load to trick the charger into continuously charging. When I have checked the voltage this charger charges from 13.8-14.4V.

I guess I don't follow the no more then 10 amp charge rate rule you have. Alternators are far more powerful. I however do realize that an alternator is supplying the power to any load on the electrical system when the car is running. However I don't know how you would guarantee the battery only saw 10 amps. I guess if you never dipped below the alternators rating then this may be possible. But back in the day when stereo's where popular which drove people to buy optimas the alternators were under powered and the reserve of the optima was dipped into regularly.

I still dont have the battery tender I am using sorry. I will try to remember this tonight. I know its nothing special and just had a "float" mode. *edit* this is the battery tender I am using I have 3 of these http://www.batterymart.com/p-xciter-5-stage-battery-charger.html

 

[RootBreaker]

I believe this is the charger I have VEC1095ABD 2/10/25/75 Amp Smart Car Charger. I usually charge with 10 amps and then follow up with a 2 amp charge. 12 volts isn't the maximum voltage it's what I would call the static voltage after its been off the charger for an hour or so. The trick I use is just to leave a door open. The dome light is enough of a load to trick the charger into continuously charging. When I have checked the voltage this charger charges from 13.8-14.4V.

I guess I don't follow the no more then 10 amp charge rate rule you have. Alternators are far more powerful. I however do realize that an alternator is supplying the power to any load on the electrical system when the car is running. However I don't know how you would guarantee the battery only saw 10 amps. I guess if you never dipped below the alternators rating then this may be possible. But back in the day when stereo's where popular which drove people to buy optimas the alternators were under powered and the reserve of the optima was dipped into regularly.

I still dont have the battery tender I am using sorry. I will try to remember this tonight. I know its nothing special and just had a "float" mode.

I have the same bad azzzz charger!!!!!!!! IT ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!

now i bought mine from ebay shipped to my door for $35 and that was before it was a black and decker.... black and decker just bought them and rebadged the pacaging and now they are like $85!!!!!!!!!!!

my neighbor fried mine and ponied up the $85 for a new one for me... we fixed his.. internal fan blew.. so we just wired 2 computer fans externally.. he is happy with that..


i use it to charge my sons powerwheels.. i put a lawn mower battery in.. had the battery and cost me few connectors, wire and wire loom... hellova lot cheaper than $75 for a new power wheels battery!!!!!!!!

this charger does wet/dry and something else... first button...
also with car running it tests your alternator (not sure if it is just seeing 14+ volts and saying good)

also it has the set it and forget it... put it on 2amp and leave it for weeks.. it will charge it up as it drops... nice and refreshed...

also has a battery recondition feature.. i have used it and seems to work!!!!!!!! takes 24hrs....


anyone looking... maybe u can find it cheaper but here are some things..
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-VEC1095ABD-Battery-Charger/dp/B000EJV5II


link to pic of box...
http://img.webme.com/pic/n/noboundaries/vec1095abd-4.jpg

 

[76zimmer]

Hi Dave, there are two types of maintenance chargers, fully-automatic “multi-stage” or “multi-step” chargers, which monitor the battery and charge it as necessary and traditional “float” chargers, which provide constant voltage with tapering amperage to the battery, even when fully-charged. Multi-stage maintainers will charge at varying voltages and varying amperage (rarely exceeding 2 amps) and are preferred for our batteries. For float-charging, we recommend a maximum rate of 1 amp, 13.2-13.8 volts. These chargers are ok too, just not preferred.

Balzer, the voltage regulator and load placed on an alternator determines amperage output, which could be 10 amps or 100 amps (if an alternator is rated that high). Alternators will only produce the current necessary to maintain a battery's target voltage. With the engine idling and no load on a charging system (lights and all accessories off, battery fully-charged), the amperage output of an alternator will be relatively-low and could be less than 10 amps. With the headlights and heater blower fan on and the engine running at 2,000 rpm, the output can jump to 25-30 amps.

Since alternators are voltage-regulated, their output is typically less than 15 volts, with most being around 14.4 volts. We do indicate in our charging information for cyclic applications, that at 14.7 volts, there is no current limit, as long as the battery temperature remains below 125°F (which can be challenging with extremely high-amperage flow). The additional capacity of alternators really comes into play when accessories like winches, large stereos or auxiliary lighting place heavy electrical demands on the system.

You are absolutely correct about the additional electrical demands modern vehicles place on batteries. Accessories like car alarms, satellite radio, navigation systems, TVs, and multiple accessory jacks for everyone to plug their toys into have also contributed to these increases. If anyone has any other questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatterieshttp://www.facebook.com/optimabatterieshttp://www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

THE Jim McIlvaine of NBA fame....who'da thunk it. congrats Jim.

 

[OptimaJim]

Thank you. Work really hard for a few years, save a little money and then go have fun doing car stuff

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries