Potent Rodent

[Shawn]

Well.... after getting my exhaust done, my first joy ride was short lived by an overheating issue. Made it 7 miles before I saw the temp at 220 degrees. By the time I pulled in a parking lot and shut it off, it was at 240! Both electric fans were manually turned on and running. I have not tweaked the tune and I know it was running too much timing and too lean which will cause more heat. Let it cool off and came back later at night. Coolant was down a couple inches so not that low but I did fill it some more and retarded the timing. Made the 5 mile drive back home and it stayed at 190 until I got to my driveway and it sat idle while I opened the garage door. By the time I pulled it in it was 210. ECU definitely needs some tweaking. It was running way to lean and having some issue starting. I tried to time it before the exhaust shop using the Edelbrock wizard and I think I over-wrote my cold start fix config.

On top of that, my tires have flat spots. I'm going to try and increase to max measure and drive it for a bit and see if that helps fix the flat spots. If not, I'm in for some new tires.

At least the 3" exhaust sounds great. The longer Magnflow mufflers are a great sounding muffler. Fairly quiet at idle but louder when you get on it. I'll take some more pictures.

 

[nvrenuf]

I'll take some more pictures.

Any video for exhaust sound. The truck looks great.

 

[folkenheath]

What is your timing at? Say at 4K RPM with a timing light? Did you sync it with the EFI and a timing light?

It sounds to me like you have an overheating issue separate from the timing/tuning issue, but I could be wrong...at 220 or more or more the radiator hoses should be too hot to hold onto. Be careful...

 

[Chevman88]

New headlights installed. Went with the LMC clear housings and installed some brighter 9005/9006 LED bulbs that had good reviews and filament placement is close to factory specs which is important. Had to cut the bucket a little for the LED fan with a body saw. Lights seem to work well and are pretty bright compared to the halogen bulbs, still need to adjust them. Placed the chrome bezel on just to see how it looks. I need some of those white plastic nuts that pop in the radiator support. Also need to get a wiring harness or do a relay mod to allow the low beams come on when brights are enabled down the road.

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I ran dual "filament" LEDs so I have all 4 on with low and high, made sure to aim my headlights though...lol. Nice build!

 

[sweetk30]

edelbrock pro flo 4 you set base time at idle and lock it then from there its all done on the tablet / phone . but also would be good to check it and verify .

you can also do 0.25* changes in timing and play with how much and were at specific points.

 

[Shawn]

Any video for exhaust sound. The truck looks great.

Thanks! I'll have to get a clip of the exhaust.

What is your timing at? Say at 4K RPM with a timing light? Did you sync it with the EFI and a timing light?
It sounds to me like you have an overheating issue separate from the timing/tuning issue, but I could be wrong...at 220 or more or more the radiator hoses should be too hot to hold onto. Be careful...

No idea what the timing is at 4k. I need to look into all of that. I haven't really ran the engine for too long since it was mostly sitting in the garage with open headers and the fumes were not pleasant even with the door open. You do sync the Edlebrock. When I tried I could not read the timing marks so I need to put a mark at the 12 degrees which is where Edelbrock ECU wanted it at to sync. I ran out of time before the tow truck driver got there. Thought I could limp it home but maybe that was a bad idea.

I ran dual "filament" LEDs so I have all 4 on with low and high, made sure to aim my headlights though...lol. Nice build!

I didn't think they made dual filament for 9005 and 9006 bulbs. For now they look great at night but I still need to aim them.

edelbrock pro flo 4 you set base time at idle and lock it then from there its all done on the tablet / phone . but also would be good to check it and verify .

you can also do 0.25* changes in timing and play with how much and were at specific points.

True, I just couldn't read the timing marks before the tow truck arrived. I should have tried to time it at the exhaust shop before I left. I need to mark the HB at the 12 degree mark to sync it with ECU.

If messing with the ECU timing and A/F ratio (so it runs richer) does not fix the overheating issue, I'm going to be pissed off. Brand new block and heads. I might call my engine shop and see if he has any suggestions since he does many Dart blocks. I think my old EFI intake would have helped since it had a coolant ports from the front to the rear.

 

[kgblazerfive]

If it is getting hotter at idle standing still you need bigger fans.

 

[Shawn]

If it is getting hotter at idle standing still you need bigger fans.

You might be right.

I have dual 12" fans but they may not be enough. Radiator is full height 4 Row.

Maximum Fan CFM: 1730 cfm
Fan Diameter (in): 12.050"
Thickness (in): 2.500"
Number of Blades: 10 blades
Maximum Fan RPM: 2,250 rpm
Blade Material: Plastic
Amp Draw: 12.70 amps


Core Rows: (4 Rows Core)
Core Size: 19" high x 28-1/2" wide
Overall Size: 20-1/4" high x 33-1/4" wide

 

[kgblazerfive]

Just go get a set of Windstars and call it good.

Yes those fans are way to small, like way way way to small.

 

[kgblazerfive]

https://www.amazon.com/TYC-620280-Windstar-Replacement-Condenser/dp/B000IYNW1C

 

[folkenheath]

No idea what the timing is at 4k. I need to look into all of that. I haven't really ran the engine for too long since it was mostly sitting in the garage with open headers and the fumes were not pleasant even with the door open. You do sync the Edlebrock. When I tried I could not read the timing marks so I need to put a mark at the 12 degrees which is where Edelbrock ECU wanted it at to sync. I ran out of time before the tow truck driver got there. Thought I could limp it home but maybe that was a bad idea.

I would surely check the timing sync at higher RPM too, whatever it is supposed to be at, it should be there. Sometimes you need to adjust the inductive delay or something to compensate for timing changes at RPM, not sure that that correlates to Edelbrock's programs.

May app has a "timing mark" function, let me know your damper diameter and I can tell you exactly where the mark should be for 12 deg or 34 degrees or wherever you want it. Then just measure and make one with a paint marker.

 

[Shawn]

Just go get a set of Windstars and call it good.

Yes those fans are way to small, like way way way to small.

LOL Yeah you might be right on being too small. I looked up some specs on the Windstar fans. Looks like 4400 CFM. Uses a 15" and 13" fan. Thanks for the suggestion. Looks like I may have to do this.

I spoke with Dorman a while back when I bought mine last year in 2009 and they make the OEM DORMAN Part # 620131...... The tech gave me results from the test sheets that they had on file and I thought I would share it with the board for guys looking for a budget friendly electrical fan assembly.
The fans were $106 at Rock Auto, but I am sure they can be found in the junkyard or salvage yard for less........$40-$60

Test Results:

2000 Ford Windstar Fan Assembly
left fan: 340ml= 13.3inches
right fan: 390ml=15.3inches

left fan: 60.3cmm=2129.193cfm
right fan: 64.4cmm=2273.964cfm
this was rated at 1935 RPMS
4403.157 cfm total......

ml= milliters
cmm= cubic meters per minute
cfm= cubic feet per minute
conversion from cmm to cfm done by cmm x 35.31= cfm

Only $106..... dorman 99-03 ford windstar fan 6 blades but bigger fan blades.
Stay away from 94-98 Windstar fans

I would surely check the timing sync at higher RPM too, whatever it is supposed to be at, it should be there. Sometimes you need to adjust the inductive delay or something to compensate for timing changes at RPM, not sure that that correlates to Edelbrock's programs.

May app has a "timing mark" function, let me know your damper diameter and I can tell you exactly where the mark should be for 12 deg or 34 degrees or wherever you want it. Then just measure and make one with a paint marker.

Edelbrock makes it pretty simple. Its locks the timing and tells you to set the timing at 12 degrees. Then you unlock it and let it control the timing from there. You can also have it + or - the timing in the program. If I had a timing gun with a dial, I could set it that way with the main TDC mark. Thanks for your input on this!!!

 

[kgblazerfive]

I have had zero issues as in none, except when I forgot to turn them on, with cooling with my Windstars.

 

[miniwally]

KG blazer is right, those are so way to small of fans, I barely could keep my buggy cool with 2500CFM and a stock TBI350.

 

[folkenheath]

Edelbrock makes it pretty simple. Its locks the timing and tells you to set the timing at 12 degrees. Then you unlock it and let it control the timing from there. You can also have it + or - the timing in the program. If I had a timing gun with a dial, I could set it that way with the main TDC mark. Thanks for your input on this!!!

Ok, thats simple in the fact that there is less adjustment. So in that case I would check it at higher RPM too, and if there is any variation then I would sync it at higher RPM. I would rather be off at idle than at 4000 - 5000 RPM where your peak torque occurs.

But I agree with the guys, your primary overheating problem is not enough airflow, it isn't your timing. I'm just saying that for the safety of your engine.

 

[Shawn]

KG blazer is right, those are so way to small of fans, I barely could keep my buggy cool with 2500CFM and a stock TBI350.

Was that a single 2500 CFM fan or two? My two 12" fans combined are suppose to be 3460 CFM but you never know with the cheaper China fans. Going to a Windstar looks to be 4400 CFM.

 

[folkenheath]

Also, you don't need a timing gun with a dial, we can simply make a mark on the balancer at the correct dimension for 12 deg with a paint marker, and then sync the timing. For an 8" balancer it would be .84" (27/32), or for a 7" balancer it would be .73" (47/64). Just make a mark that far toward the right when looking from the front from the 0 mark on the OD of your balancer. Then sync your timing with that mark. If your mark is off 1/16" then you'll be off ~1 degree to give you an idea of the accuracy involved.

 

[Shawn]

Also, you don't need a timing gun with a dial, we can simply make a mark on the balancer at the correct dimension for 12 deg with a paint marker, and then sync the timing. For an 8" balancer it would be .84" (27/32), or for a 7" balancer it would be .73" (47/64). Just make a mark that far toward the right when looking from the front from the 0 mark on the OD of your balancer. Then sync your timing with that mark. If your mark is off 1/16" then you'll be off ~1 degree to give you an idea of the accuracy involved.

Good info! Thanks.

 

[6872xtc]

Did you get a chance to look at it more last night?

What water pump do you have? I had a brand new NAPA one fail to move enough coolant on my big block years ago. It would jump up in temp quickly, and never cooled the engine well.

 

[Shawn]

Did you get a chance to look at it more last night?

What water pump do you have? I had a brand new NAPA one fail to move enough coolant on my big block years ago. It would jump up in temp quickly, and never cooled the engine well.

I have an aluminum water pump. I want to say its Weiand or Mr. Gasket performance pump. It didn't appear to be a cheap knock off but you never know. I remember the box looking original name brand and not a plain box. If I keep having this problem I will take a look at the water pump and maybe switch to a higher quality if needed. I am using -20 AN lines on both bottom and top hoses and had to weld a -20 end on the pump. The bottom hose has to go up and over the frame rail then down a little to the water pump inlet. I wonder if that hump is causing any air pocket? I assumed the factory hose is similar. That being said, the -20 size "should" be large enough at 1.25" after doing some research.

I did re-time it last night and adjusted the cold start and AFR to be richer. The timing seemed to be jumping around a little so I might try a different light or some tin foil around the inductive pickup but it looks close to where it needs to be at 12 degrees. I did not have time to take it for a test drive yet. Just double checking everything that I could. I still need to install my coolant recovery tank which doesn't help having that off. The coolant appears to be an inch away from the top so I keep adding some. Hopefully it was just some air bubbles, too much timing, lean AFR and improper fans thats causing all of this and nothing major with the engine.