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Power Window Idea <--- IT WORKS

This is a great mod! I'll be doing it when I get the time.

This is a great mod. I did it this weekend, took about an hour and a half. The windows are a lot faster.:D
 
Nice find!

There is major voltage drop into the cab. The harness for the windows plugs into the fuse box and VERY easy to get at. Anybody try running a clean line right from the battery bypassing all the other wiring and can report on the findings?

I plan to give it a try this weekend if nobody beats me to it.
 
have any idea on how to do this to the rear window (for the electrically declined:D). My back window won't move without assitance and a mod like this I am very interested in
 
carpeonnel said:
have any idea on how to do this to the rear window (for the electrically declined:D). My back window won't move without assitance and a mod like this I am very interested in
Click to expand...

That could be a number of problems:

Crud buildup on the regulator arms (clean them off and use some new white lithium), crud in the channels, and the drive cable (I have seen them rust internally and either become immobile or highly resistive).
 
yeah, I replaced the cable after window froze up and wouldn't move. Cleaned the tracks and checked the motor. Everything seems to work fine, it just doesn't have enough power. Figured this might be a better alternative to try first before I replace the motor
 
carpeonnel said:
yeah, I replaced the cable after window froze up and wouldn't move. Cleaned the tracks and checked the motor. Everything seems to work fine, it just doesn't have enough power. Figured this might be a better alternative to try first before I replace the motor
Click to expand...

Mine was doing the same thing and it turned out to be the connections between the tailgate and the tailpan. They are little round connectos, should be two of them. The wires were also badly coroded up into the tailgate. I replaced the wires going into the tailgate and replaced the connectors with the Delphe Weatherpack connectors and it works great now.
 
Grim-Reaper said:
Nice find!

There is major voltage drop into the cab. The harness for the windows plugs into the fuse box and VERY easy to get at. Anybody try running a clean line right from the battery bypassing all the other wiring and can report on the findings?

I plan to give it a try this weekend if nobody beats me to it.
Click to expand...

Curious to hear how it turns out. Will be tangling with the windows once my current projects are finished.
 
carpeonnel said:
have any idea on how to do this to the rear window (for the electrically declined:D). My back window won't move without assitance and a mod like this I am very interested in
Click to expand...
In theory, it's the same mod. You run large power and ground wires into the tailgate. Then you mount two relays in there somewhere out of the way of the mechanism. The two wires going into the tailgate motor are both hot. One gets 12V for "up" and the other gets 12V for "down". The ground path is through the case of the motor. So the wiring is very simple.
 
Blue85 said:
The ground path is through the case of the motor. So the wiring is very simple.
Click to expand...

Actually the ground path is thru the other relay not being activated in this application... thus it makes things a little more confusing. But with the pinout shown in post #1 and the wiring diagram I posted you should be good.
 
when I take it apart again. I'll see if I can figure it out. Most of the time I don't even f**k with wires cuz it gets very aggravating when you're color blind:D:doah:
 
kennyw said:
Actually the ground path is thru the other relay not being activated in this application... thus it makes things a little more confusing. But with the pinout shown in post #1 and the wiring diagram I posted you should be good.
Click to expand...
The tailgate motor is not wired the same as the passenger door motors. There are two hots and the case is ground. Look at the wiring to the tailgate, there are only 3 wires: Hot (to power the keyswitch), Up and Down (both from the front switch). It's possible that some other configurations were offered in different years, but I'm skeptical until somebody reports otherwise. I actually suspect that sometimes the rear window problems are from using this body ground through the hinges.
 
Then if that is the case, the wiring pinouts and wiring diagram posted in this thread will be WRONG for a tailgate.
 
But it should be easy. Each of the existing motor wires controls one relay. Each of those relays feeds one of the motor terminals. This keeps both the keyswitch and dash switch working just like they do today.
 
I got my '84 K5 in '87 and the tailgate switch wasn't working. It's not hard to pull the inside cover off with the tailgate down, flip the safety switch by hand, then crank the window out using the dash switch. I always stick a trash can under the glass to hold it up while horizontal, it's just the right height. Then you can get to the switch.

The switch contacts were burned up, nothing left of them. I replaced the switch only to have the contacts burn up again several months later. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice..... There's just too much current on that motor for those cheap contacts in the switch.

I installed a pair of power relays inside the tailgate, connected the motor to the relay contacts, and connected another new replacement key switch contact to the relay coils. I think the relay contacts were rated for 30A DC. The dash panel switch still drives the motor directly, although I could have made it drive the relay coils as well.

That was over 20 years ago, haven't had to mess with it since. Oh yeah, I didn't trust the ground going to the tailgate through the hing either, could contribute to voltage drop forcing the motor to draw even more current through the switch contacts. So I added a dedicated ground wire from the frame to the tailgate as well.
 
I did the D.S. door today. I found that the fuse block was suffering from over 1V of loss with the load of one window so I pulled power from the distribution block under the hood. I soldered all connections to the relays to minimize the resistance and ran power and ground through 10gauge wire. The motor grounds to the door + through the wire tied to the chassis. The hardest part of the job is snaking wires into the doors.

Here's some numbers for comparison:

Stock setup:
-Drop from Vbatt to switch = 1.8V
-Drop through switch = 0.5V
-Open/close time (engine off): 7s

With relays:
-Drop from Vbatt to relays = 0.3V
-Drop through relay = 0.1V
-Open/close time (engine off): 5s


I expect even more improvement from the passenger's side since the wires running from the D.S. door are so small and the current passes through both switches.
 
It will work - I just dont speak VDC. I did however just install a HD wiring harness for my head lights yesterday and must say - Its a difference noted.

On another path, however, I also just very recently replaced my stock 64A alternator with a 94A and was surprised to see the windows operate much quicker. This relay mod is suddenly on my list of things to do being that I can tesify to the difference in headlight intensity. So, to do the same thing with the windows would be an even more dramatic improvement.

Problem is - I cant speaky the DVC language. :doah: Troubleshooting and such is a breeze - Modifying a system however, is a blank look from me.

Subscribed, awaiting one person to post an "electrical wiring for idiots" diagram.



Troy B
Ft Hood, TX
 
Now for the passenger's side numbers:

Stock setup:
-Drop from Vbatt to switch = 1.5V
-Drop through switch = 1.5V (yes, the motor is only getting about 9V)
-Open/close time (engine off): 7.2s up, 6.2s down

With relays:
-Drop from Vbatt to relays = 0.3V
-Drop through relay and motor wire = 0.2V
-Open/close time (engine off): 4.2s up, 3.7s down

This is about a 41% improvement.

Note that these times are done with the door skins off, so the inner window seal is not there to drag. Also, these are done from the passenger's switch. The stock setup through the driver's switch is much worse, but I didn't measure or time that configuration. All I can tell you is that it didn't always even make it all the way. With the relays, both switches work equally well.

I have an electrical center right in front of my HVAC blower, so I just added a fuse and took power from there.
 
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