pma4x4
AKA Yankeeroad
Ok I got that bookmarked. Will have to go back that later. It looks interesting.
CK5
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Project MULE - Expedition build on a 1991 1500 4x4 Suburban
- Thread starter pma4x4
- Start date
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Our own DaveW on here has a video somewhere of a TBI 350 running on the LS ECM also. Its a somewhat popular swap.
He beat me to it...
^^
FYI, the GM L31 Vortec replacement crate motor is set up for a crank position sensor...it has the crank wheel in the timing cover. Just add sensor.(I only mention this because I happen to have one sitting in the garage)
Use a Vortec distributer as a cam position sensor, add a coil per cylinder rig, add ECM & harness and roll on...
DaveW and EagleMark really know their chit with this stuff
^^FYI, the GM L31 Vortec replacement crate motor is set up for a crank position sensor...it has the crank wheel in the timing cover. Just add sensor.(I only mention this because I happen to have one sitting in the garage)
Use a Vortec distributer as a cam position sensor, add a coil per cylinder rig, add ECM & harness and roll on...
DaveW and EagleMark really know their chit with this stuff
What kills me is a cummins is really the best solution out there when it comes to power and torque plus mpg's....
I used to have a cd somewhere i ordered on ebay years ago that included everything one needed to know to swap a dmax into one of our trucks as well...
DW
I used to have a cd somewhere i ordered on ebay years ago that included everything one needed to know to swap a dmax into one of our trucks as well...
DW
pma4x4
AKA Yankeeroad
A cummins was at the top of the list a while back. but total cost was getting in the 7k range when you finally start adding everything together. Then add a D60 front end. to boot
I have talked with a few guys that have Cummins and one guy with a duramax and they kind of said the same thing. it great for all the tq but a lot of times its almost too much when offroad. Plus for us planning some trips in remote area down the road Gas will be easier to find then Diesel.
Arizona emissions wont allow a 4BT swap for emiision either.
I have talked with a few guys that have Cummins and one guy with a duramax and they kind of said the same thing. it great for all the tq but a lot of times its almost too much when offroad. Plus for us planning some trips in remote area down the road Gas will be easier to find then Diesel.
Arizona emissions wont allow a 4BT swap for emiision either.
The Cummins is to heavy, it really is a medium duty commercial truck motor. The 4BT makes me smile as it weighs about what the chevy does, but again all the work involved in the swap makes it a no-go for me. I did a BUNCH of research when I was making plans for my sub. The MOST cost effective improvement was a stock Vortec motor ($1200-2000 new longblock), a vortec carb intake ($100-200), a TBI adaptor (free to $70), the vortec distrib gear (free to $60), and the Dynamic EFI upgrade computer ($350). EVERYTHING else you already have and are using. Probably could swap it in a single day. I'm waiting for my motor to fully die before I complete the swap, but I've already done the computer upgrade, half way done with the ultimate TBI mods. The computer with a laptop will mostly tune itself. You can turn off air injection, EGR, and anything else you want, built in electric fan control.
pma4x4
AKA Yankeeroad
Well, obviously this is suppose to happen. Within the last 48hrs I have almost all the parts I need for a TPI vortec engine.
Saturday morning i did some horse trading and ended up with a complete 97 5.7 vortec
Then went to go buy a 85-89 TPI harness for $40 and the guy gave me the matching ECM he thought he couldn't find.
He then says "hey I got an old intake if you want that. I'se gonna put it on Craigslist but you can have it". I follow him back to the parts shed and he hands me a complete TPI system.
And that concludes the awesomeness of this weekend.
Saturday morning i did some horse trading and ended up with a complete 97 5.7 vortec
Then went to go buy a 85-89 TPI harness for $40 and the guy gave me the matching ECM he thought he couldn't find.
He then says "hey I got an old intake if you want that. I'se gonna put it on Craigslist but you can have it". I follow him back to the parts shed and he hands me a complete TPI system.
And that concludes the awesomeness of this weekend.
Carefull, you need a vortec specific lower intake. All the TPI parts will fit but you MUST get the vortec TPI lower intake. The ports wont match. Summitracing has it for $500 but you could also get a Weiand Vortec stealth ram intake $392 and uses all the TPI stuff and matches the vortec heads.
pma4x4
AKA Yankeeroad
I knew of the intake difference and that was the diets thing I went hunting for before ant of this for started. Scoggin-dickey has it for 400.
My two cents, get the Weiand Stealth Ram intake, makes future work easier as you don't have to pull half the intake apart to get to stuff. It's all right there. Plus you don't have to worry about bending or crushing the "intake tubes", which do crush pretty easily, and less points for vacuum leaks.
pma4x4
AKA Yankeeroad
Granted its the sames price as just the lower vortec/TPI intake but I would still need to by fuel rails and parts associated with them. The Stealth ram looks good but not for my application. Its a great HP producer but meant for higher RPMs. The TPI is good to 5K and I dont plan on spinning past 3500 really. The stealth is a single plan runner system but they are also about 11" shorter then the stock TPI. I am looking all for low and mid range torque which is where a stock TPI shines. Im not saying its a bad intake it just nost the component I need for my application.
I found some good info on it but this article explains the differences
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/tech/hppp_0910_dyno_testing_the_tpi_chevy_small_block_engine/
I found some good info on it but this article explains the differences
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/tech/hppp_0910_dyno_testing_the_tpi_chevy_small_block_engine/
Exactly how am I supposed to steal ideas and designs from you if you keep doing odd ball stuff?
The other (not mine) suburban in my yard has the full Arizona Speed Camaro 350 TPI conversion in it. It's a nice set-up.
On mine I'll have to stay vortec with TBI as I'm already more than half way down that road. Your build is an inspiration and I steal plenty of ideas from it. I definitely will be using a complete vortec front accessory drive system in my burb. Then an electric fan assembly. It's a very clean and simple bracket system. Only note in doing that is a reverse rotation water pump (stock on 96-99).
The other (not mine) suburban in my yard has the full Arizona Speed Camaro 350 TPI conversion in it. It's a nice set-up.
On mine I'll have to stay vortec with TBI as I'm already more than half way down that road. Your build is an inspiration and I steal plenty of ideas from it. I definitely will be using a complete vortec front accessory drive system in my burb. Then an electric fan assembly. It's a very clean and simple bracket system. Only note in doing that is a reverse rotation water pump (stock on 96-99).
pma4x4
AKA Yankeeroad
Oddball stuff? 
Thats another reason why I I am staying with the stock TPI rather then the Weiand Stealth ram.
Thats another reason why I I am staying with the stock TPI rather then the Weiand Stealth ram.
Its looking like to me the bbc is the way to go. I plan to haul an M101A3 behind the jimmy for supplies....water...fuel...firewood...generator...etc.
However years ago the tbi swap i did by junk yarding and making my own harness's for 79 K5 and 76 k5 Chalet was a no brainer. I guess i can't believe
that was 10-12 years ago already.
We had a member from litchfield park az who did the tbi big block...4l80e...241 swap and averaged about 12mpg on the highway...
At least i can't spend any coin right now since i am buying a home and paying off my new truck this month...lol. More time to kick the ball around.
However years ago the tbi swap i did by junk yarding and making my own harness's for 79 K5 and 76 k5 Chalet was a no brainer. I guess i can't believe
that was 10-12 years ago already.
We had a member from litchfield park az who did the tbi big block...4l80e...241 swap and averaged about 12mpg on the highway...
At least i can't spend any coin right now since i am buying a home and paying off my new truck this month...lol. More time to kick the ball around.
pma4x4
AKA Yankeeroad
If all the pieces would have fallen together for a BBC I would have gone that route. Both viable solutions I think. I just got real lucky with the SBC vortec and TPI stuff.
pma4x4
AKA Yankeeroad
So we got back from our 10 day trip into Utah. It actually was a couple days in Payson for a friends jeep event I was sponsoring then off to Utah until the next friday and went onto the Overland Expo. We had a blast doing this and never got burnt out on camping, we just wanted to keep going.
We only had one major hiccup and that was the steering gearbox came loose from the frame! It came on so slowly that it wasn't until the end of the day when we camped I had realized I was having to make almost 1/2 rotation steering corrections to stay straight. The next morning I got underneath and had Bridget turn the wheel and there it was CLANK CLANK CLANK! lost 2 bolts and the other 2 were loose. I also found one of the sway bar brackets has all the nuts and washers missing as well. I knew we went down some nasty washboard roads but dang! I tighten the remaining two bolts up and then its was a 63 mile jaunt to the nearest hardware store and there we are doing repairs in the parking lot of Ace hardware in Blanding Utah.
One thing we did quickly find out is that the Mule is severely under powered. Once we got back I started researching. Even before the trip I was thinking of a 7.4 Vortec swap. I had then remembered how much torque the Tuned Port Injection system did. Let the research begin! I found with some basic parts and barely mild upgrades you can easily 400lbs of torque and not sacrifice economy.
Last Friday I decided to officially start hunting for a 96-2002. Then it starts. A guy had posted a '97 vortec pulled when running a couple weeks ago with 130k on it for $300 complete. After some horse trading I brought it home Saturday morning.
I then decided to find a OEM harness for cheap (if it existed). Came across a 85-89 TPI harness for $40 complete no ECM. I go there and find that all the ends have been tagged even the that the connctor had busted apart and left bare wires. He mentions he found the ECM for it and said here take it. He then says I have the intake manifold for it, its your if you want it. At this time I am thinkinh ok I'll take the intake even though I will be replacing it for the vortec TPI one. I follow him back to a parts shed that would make any chevy guy cry. used and (old stock) new parts eveyrwhere. All mostly performance parts just laying around wanting to be save and used again. Anyways, he proceeds to hand me all the parts for a complete Tuned Port Injection setup and not just the intake manifold. Injectors, rails everything.
The guy - "I was planning on putting it Craigslist for like $200 but if you want you can have it".
Me - "uhh, sure."
So the tally for all the awesomness over the weekend.
One complete 1997 Vortec with roller cams and L31 heads (possible 4 bolt main)
85-89 TPI harness out of a camaro/TA
85-89 TPI parts ECM MAF sensor type (not as sensitive to changes like others)
85-89 TPI manifold complete (just disassembled)
Total cost $315
It looks like hell but it actually lays out pretty clean and nice.
We only had one major hiccup and that was the steering gearbox came loose from the frame! It came on so slowly that it wasn't until the end of the day when we camped I had realized I was having to make almost 1/2 rotation steering corrections to stay straight. The next morning I got underneath and had Bridget turn the wheel and there it was CLANK CLANK CLANK! lost 2 bolts and the other 2 were loose. I also found one of the sway bar brackets has all the nuts and washers missing as well. I knew we went down some nasty washboard roads but dang! I tighten the remaining two bolts up and then its was a 63 mile jaunt to the nearest hardware store and there we are doing repairs in the parking lot of Ace hardware in Blanding Utah.
One thing we did quickly find out is that the Mule is severely under powered. Once we got back I started researching. Even before the trip I was thinking of a 7.4 Vortec swap. I had then remembered how much torque the Tuned Port Injection system did. Let the research begin! I found with some basic parts and barely mild upgrades you can easily 400lbs of torque and not sacrifice economy.
Last Friday I decided to officially start hunting for a 96-2002. Then it starts. A guy had posted a '97 vortec pulled when running a couple weeks ago with 130k on it for $300 complete. After some horse trading I brought it home Saturday morning.
I then decided to find a OEM harness for cheap (if it existed). Came across a 85-89 TPI harness for $40 complete no ECM. I go there and find that all the ends have been tagged even the that the connctor had busted apart and left bare wires. He mentions he found the ECM for it and said here take it. He then says I have the intake manifold for it, its your if you want it. At this time I am thinkinh ok I'll take the intake even though I will be replacing it for the vortec TPI one. I follow him back to a parts shed that would make any chevy guy cry. used and (old stock) new parts eveyrwhere. All mostly performance parts just laying around wanting to be save and used again. Anyways, he proceeds to hand me all the parts for a complete Tuned Port Injection setup and not just the intake manifold. Injectors, rails everything.
The guy - "I was planning on putting it Craigslist for like $200 but if you want you can have it".
Me - "uhh, sure."
So the tally for all the awesomness over the weekend.
One complete 1997 Vortec with roller cams and L31 heads (possible 4 bolt main)
85-89 TPI harness out of a camaro/TA
85-89 TPI parts ECM MAF sensor type (not as sensitive to changes like others)
85-89 TPI manifold complete (just disassembled)
Total cost $315
It looks like hell but it actually lays out pretty clean and nice.
Wow! great score. That article you linked to was a real eye opener on the potential of the TPI type system
pma4x4
AKA Yankeeroad
Greg that was just one of the few articles I came across where they actually dynoed and showed how easy it was to get over 400lbs of torque with these things. when I first came up with this idea I used Compcams Camquest Dyno program and thought it was way off when it should me 242hp and 432lb of tq. but after more research and digging those number can easily be had without loss of economy.
by the way here is some tid bit info on one reason the TPI produces torque. The average intake runner for a convention carb or TBI setup is about 6". the TPI is 24"
Those torque numbers are what I found so overwhelming, I will be following your build and probably gathering parts as well to do a similar group of mods. Do you think the aftermarket tpi manifold, runners etc are worth it on this kind of build or would the stock pieces suffice?
pma4x4
AKA Yankeeroad
Ive already been looking into those. I don't think the gains will be worth the cost for my application. Also, some of those runners have whats called "Siamese" ports meaning that they blended them together in pairs and in doing so essentially shortens the runners. It adds to top end but you loose in the bottom. Not for me!
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