55Willy
3/4 ton status
the next person to do a s-10 body swap should runthier old tub across the scales. I kinda wish I had done that when i did my swap. Atleast my brother has a full body blazer so i can do a side by side when i get mine done.
CK5
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Put your Blazer on a diet
- Thread starter Sandman
- Start date
Oh heck, I forgot about that. No need to reinvent the wheel. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
I think the real reality hear is that heavy trucks make the need for heavy parts wich inturn makes the truck heavier. Little Catch 22 for ya.
The fact that my chassis only weighs around 450lbs. tells me that the drivetrain is where a bunch of the weight savings has got to come from.
Light weight rigs do better than heavy rigs. We know this
Are lighter weight rigs throw aways? 3500lbs and lighter? Some might be some may not be.
You want light you gotta pay for light... most of it is in the drivetrain and light weight drivetrains are EXPENSIVE.
Also be careful when looking at posted weights of rigs. I have seen several instances where the rig had no gas no tools and no driver
The fact that my chassis only weighs around 450lbs. tells me that the drivetrain is where a bunch of the weight savings has got to come from.
Light weight rigs do better than heavy rigs. We know this
Are lighter weight rigs throw aways? 3500lbs and lighter? Some might be some may not be.
You want light you gotta pay for light... most of it is in the drivetrain and light weight drivetrains are EXPENSIVE.
Also be careful when looking at posted weights of rigs. I have seen several instances where the rig had no gas no tools and no driver
zcarczar
1/2 ton status
My $.02 on the issue is that some of these guys run MASSIVE axles like the D60 and the 14 bolts. Now I have a feeling that im going to need the strength of a 60, but I dont want to add another 200lbs of unsprung wieght to my truck, so instead im going with a custom 9" front axle with 60 shafts and outers and D44 brakes. I will probably do the same in the rear and run a 9" in the rear too to save some more weight. I also plan on going with fiberglass fenders and chopping the top. My goal is to have a Trail ready blazer with a full roll cage sitting on 37's at 5000lbs. I know its not going to be easy but I dont want to loose my interior or the look of my blazer and im going to try everything in my power to keep my wieght at around 5000lbs for the trail. I geuss the thing to think about is we build our trucks with overkill in mind. I know I dont need to run a 14BFF in the rear because its 250lbs more wieght I dont need, and I dont need to run a NP205 because thats more wiehgt I dont need in my truck. So in turn we could think about building our trucks with purpose in mind instead of buying the strongest baddest biggest stuff and wiegh 7000lbs instead of spending a little more $$$ and going with the aluminum stuff or building custom axles that are just as strong as say a 60 but with half the wieght.
sled_dog
1 ton status
I considered going with a 69 front axle and hybrid 9" rear axle as well. Its a very good idea, but I wonder one thing about the front 9" setup, how do you remove the third member? Do you have to break the entire front axle down each time you want to just check the internals? Can just weld stuff onto a 9" where you need it as well. Great for 4 linked vehicles in my opinion. A nice V6 S10 with a doubler and some hybrid 9"s would be a pretty good trail setup I think.
How many of us at one time or another right before climbing something looked over at our passenger and said buckle up? Next time, look over at your 200 pound plus passenger and say "get the hell out and take a pic or something" right there you can reduce the weight of your rig by around 200 pounds in an instant, and it doesn't cost anything. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
sled_dog
1 ton status
[ QUOTE ]
How many of us at one time or another right before climbing something looked over at our passenger and said buckle up? Next time, look over at your 200 pound plus passenger and say "get the hell out and take a pic or something" right there you can reduce the weight of your rig by around 200 pounds in an instant, and it doesn't cost anything. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
[/ QUOTE ] Here is a good point. Want to lighten your rig? Go to the gym. I bet a few of you could use it /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif Won't hurt your health any either. I'm fit and weigh 150lbs, to the truck I'm not even there.
How many of us at one time or another right before climbing something looked over at our passenger and said buckle up? Next time, look over at your 200 pound plus passenger and say "get the hell out and take a pic or something" right there you can reduce the weight of your rig by around 200 pounds in an instant, and it doesn't cost anything. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
[/ QUOTE ] Here is a good point. Want to lighten your rig? Go to the gym. I bet a few of you could use it /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif Won't hurt your health any either. I'm fit and weigh 150lbs, to the truck I'm not even there.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm fit and weigh 150lbs
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think me loosing 5 to 10 lbs is going to help thing that much.
Steve I hope that your favorite female passenger does'nt read this. [ QUOTE ]
Next time, look over at your 200 pound plus passenger
[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't weighed 150lbs in 10 years. The next time I will weigh 150lbs is sometime after I die.
Just wait until you get older you will probably increase muscle mass until you are 25.
I'm fit and weigh 150lbs
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think me loosing 5 to 10 lbs is going to help thing that much.
Steve I hope that your favorite female passenger does'nt read this. [ QUOTE ]
Next time, look over at your 200 pound plus passenger
[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't weighed 150lbs in 10 years. The next time I will weigh 150lbs is sometime after I die.
Just wait until you get older you will probably increase muscle mass until you are 25.
[ QUOTE ]
Next time, look over at your 200 pound plus passenger and say "get the hell out and take a pic or something"
[/ QUOTE ]
The last time I posed for a pic for a fat person was back in college!
/forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Next time, look over at your 200 pound plus passenger and say "get the hell out and take a pic or something"
[/ QUOTE ]
The last time I posed for a pic for a fat person was back in college!
/forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
sled_dog
1 ton status
[ QUOTE ]
I haven't weighed 150lbs in 10 years. The next time I will weigh 150lbs is sometime after I die.
Just wait until you get older you will probably increase muscle mass until you are 25.
[/ QUOTE ] I used to weigh 130, have been steadily increasing muscle mass and gotten to 150 now, I do agree it will continue. I won't argue with it, just when that muscle mass turns to fat is a problem.
I haven't weighed 150lbs in 10 years. The next time I will weigh 150lbs is sometime after I die.
Just wait until you get older you will probably increase muscle mass until you are 25.
[/ QUOTE ] I used to weigh 130, have been steadily increasing muscle mass and gotten to 150 now, I do agree it will continue. I won't argue with it, just when that muscle mass turns to fat is a problem.
Okay back on topic.
I am of the opinion that a fullsize that weighs in between 4700lbs and 5000lbs with a big block is going to be about as good as it gets running the full 1 ton drivetrain from stock manufactured vehicles.
It is all a matter of how much money you want to spend from there for your light weight.
By the way you really would be amazed at how warm an open buggy can be with only something on the roof. I do plan to install something for a windsheild and perhaps some sort of snap in windows for extra cold days. The reversible trans mission fan that I have behind my seats could come in handy on really cold days.
With that said what do you think the recipe is for the lightest weight fullsize is without using all of our budgets put together.
Engine with as much aluminium as possible. Tranny of choice man/auto Single transfercase? maybe a doubler for the gear selection. Dana 60 up front, maybe one in the rear? Leaf sprung because leafs are lighter than coils and link arms. Body panels only cut generalously, tapered and narrowed, Cage built out of 1 3/4" around the passenger area, 1 1/2" for remaining structure. All tubing that can get hit would be .120 wall. Everything else .095 and maybe even .065 in certian areas. A person really needs to take some time and evaluate how to use the lightest possible component to achieve the durability requirement they want.
I am of the opinion that a fullsize that weighs in between 4700lbs and 5000lbs with a big block is going to be about as good as it gets running the full 1 ton drivetrain from stock manufactured vehicles.
It is all a matter of how much money you want to spend from there for your light weight.
By the way you really would be amazed at how warm an open buggy can be with only something on the roof. I do plan to install something for a windsheild and perhaps some sort of snap in windows for extra cold days. The reversible trans mission fan that I have behind my seats could come in handy on really cold days.
With that said what do you think the recipe is for the lightest weight fullsize is without using all of our budgets put together.
Engine with as much aluminium as possible. Tranny of choice man/auto Single transfercase? maybe a doubler for the gear selection. Dana 60 up front, maybe one in the rear? Leaf sprung because leafs are lighter than coils and link arms. Body panels only cut generalously, tapered and narrowed, Cage built out of 1 3/4" around the passenger area, 1 1/2" for remaining structure. All tubing that can get hit would be .120 wall. Everything else .095 and maybe even .065 in certian areas. A person really needs to take some time and evaluate how to use the lightest possible component to achieve the durability requirement they want.
Ok, lets break it down into sections. I'm going to stick with OEM or OEM modified:
Engine: Headers, AL intake, AL water pump, AL radiator, electric fans.
Tranny: Not much we can do here. Power glide maybe.
Transfercase: Doubler is the heaviest but the best setup for gears. Maybe a 241 with a Dodge HD chain and output (fixed Yoke) would be the lightest and strongest with the best low range.
Front Axle: Dana 60 for strenght. Dana 44 for weight but must watch tire size.
Rear Axle: Dana 60 for a good rear axle that is not as heavy as the 14 bolt. That said, a 14 bolt can be disked and shaved to help this ancor problem. 12 Bolt to be light but then your back into tire size limites.
Body: All in what your need are. You can dump much by skinning and removing. Wanting to keep the windshield and sides and options for a door put limites. I dont think narrowing is much lighter then just skinning everything out.
Armor and Cage: I didnt even think about weight when mine was built. Somethings dont hurt to be a little overbuilt.
Other stuff: Seats, carpet, what gets carried on the trail, how much gas, It all adds up.
So what would be the formula for a very capable trail rig with most of the body still on it? Its different for everyone. But there still could easily be a base line to target for.
So lets assemble a "Virtual Blazer". Body mods, Drivetrain, everything.
What would it have? Assume a climate with seasons and the possibility of kids. Also assume acess to a car trailor so that gear and tire sizes are not limited.
Engine: Headers, AL intake, AL water pump, AL radiator, electric fans.
Tranny: Not much we can do here. Power glide maybe.
Transfercase: Doubler is the heaviest but the best setup for gears. Maybe a 241 with a Dodge HD chain and output (fixed Yoke) would be the lightest and strongest with the best low range.
Front Axle: Dana 60 for strenght. Dana 44 for weight but must watch tire size.
Rear Axle: Dana 60 for a good rear axle that is not as heavy as the 14 bolt. That said, a 14 bolt can be disked and shaved to help this ancor problem. 12 Bolt to be light but then your back into tire size limites.
Body: All in what your need are. You can dump much by skinning and removing. Wanting to keep the windshield and sides and options for a door put limites. I dont think narrowing is much lighter then just skinning everything out.
Armor and Cage: I didnt even think about weight when mine was built. Somethings dont hurt to be a little overbuilt.
Other stuff: Seats, carpet, what gets carried on the trail, how much gas, It all adds up.
So what would be the formula for a very capable trail rig with most of the body still on it? Its different for everyone. But there still could easily be a base line to target for.
So lets assemble a "Virtual Blazer". Body mods, Drivetrain, everything.
What would it have? Assume a climate with seasons and the possibility of kids. Also assume acess to a car trailor so that gear and tire sizes are not limited.
sled_dog
1 ton status
Mine would be everything you said, except, hybrid front axle and hybrid rear(9"/60s).
55Willy
3/4 ton status
why a 9"-60 hybrid. theres an s-10 in Eugene running a Howell's Fuel injected 383 with a sm 465 and turning a hi pinion dana 44 front with 39.5 bogers. his rear is a stock s-10 with moser axles and disc brakes. he can smoke the tires 1st-2nd and 3rd with no problems. yeah it's an s-10.. but close your eyes and it's a fullsize.
blk87K5
1/2 ton status
Ruling out link/coil setups for saving weight is not the smartest idea. If someone is concerned with weight, go to air shocks. They are about 40 lbs. lighter than coil overs and half the weight you lose is sprung, which arguably, matters somewhat more than unsprung weight (not going to get in that arugment). As many competitions as you have been to, you of all people should know that a half a$$ properly designed link suspension will transmit more power to the ground more efficiently than leaves ever could.
This all holds true as long as you are not getting into the $$$ argument, which doesnt hold a lot of value in the light weight game. We all know that light weight parts equals some major bling.
I do personally believe that even weight savings of a few pounds makes a huge difference. With the new comp rig I am building, I have strived to save weight in every area; to a certain extent. I will be running a 4.3 V6 due to the fact that the motor that I have that weighs 160 lbs less and makes more power is a PITA to tune, wire, and find parts for. When I get it figured out, I will eventually install it. The 160 lbs I will be saving will make a huge difference in the performance of the vehicle, but right now, its just not worth it to me. This is one example to get you thinking. Another example is the fact I am using a 5 gallon fuel cell to save weight. Gas is heavy. When im on the trail, I'll give one of you punks a beer to carry a few cans of gas for me. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
IMO, I also dont think that swapping axles out is the ticket to productive weight savings. Get rid of every ounce of sprung weight first, then concentrate on the unsprung weight. Yes, rockwells suck, but lets not all go out and swap our 14 bolts for D60's just because you can lose 20 lbs. Light weight motors (alum block/ head motors like the LS1/shortstar), trannies (powerglide), t-cases (atlas) are what the comp buggies use to lower the weight numbers. Of course the obvious applies, like no body, minimal (read: throw away) tube chassis, aluminum skins, etc.
I am also a believer of the contact patch theory. Why is it that the moon buggies aren't blowing away the "old school" rigs? They are certainly light, Spidertrax can build a rig under 2000 lbs., but how do they perform? People also add water to their tires. It certainly isnt to lighten the rig. Haven't seen anyone add helium to their tires yet. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Just some random BS to chew on...
This all holds true as long as you are not getting into the $$$ argument, which doesnt hold a lot of value in the light weight game. We all know that light weight parts equals some major bling.
I do personally believe that even weight savings of a few pounds makes a huge difference. With the new comp rig I am building, I have strived to save weight in every area; to a certain extent. I will be running a 4.3 V6 due to the fact that the motor that I have that weighs 160 lbs less and makes more power is a PITA to tune, wire, and find parts for. When I get it figured out, I will eventually install it. The 160 lbs I will be saving will make a huge difference in the performance of the vehicle, but right now, its just not worth it to me. This is one example to get you thinking. Another example is the fact I am using a 5 gallon fuel cell to save weight. Gas is heavy. When im on the trail, I'll give one of you punks a beer to carry a few cans of gas for me. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
IMO, I also dont think that swapping axles out is the ticket to productive weight savings. Get rid of every ounce of sprung weight first, then concentrate on the unsprung weight. Yes, rockwells suck, but lets not all go out and swap our 14 bolts for D60's just because you can lose 20 lbs. Light weight motors (alum block/ head motors like the LS1/shortstar), trannies (powerglide), t-cases (atlas) are what the comp buggies use to lower the weight numbers. Of course the obvious applies, like no body, minimal (read: throw away) tube chassis, aluminum skins, etc.
I am also a believer of the contact patch theory. Why is it that the moon buggies aren't blowing away the "old school" rigs? They are certainly light, Spidertrax can build a rig under 2000 lbs., but how do they perform? People also add water to their tires. It certainly isnt to lighten the rig. Haven't seen anyone add helium to their tires yet. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Just some random BS to chew on...
55Willy
3/4 ton status
oh he is running CTM joints
sled_dog
1 ton status
Dan from Bluetorch commented hes seen light rigs just spin on the rocks and trails cause there is no weight there. Interesting thing to chew on. Air shocks won't work for full size boys, only buggys. 2000lbs max at each corner with airshocks, I believe, been a while since I looked. I know my fullsize framed buggy would have been at the limit and to the point where I wouldn't have run them due to the cost prohibitive regulator needed.
It was my understanding that the comp rigs were using water to lower the overall center of gravity and to even move it forward by filling only the front tires.
And this opens a whole new door. IF you cant get ride of the weight, can you move it and where? I've seen where moving the gas tank will make the difference in a climb.
And this opens a whole new door. IF you cant get ride of the weight, can you move it and where? I've seen where moving the gas tank will make the difference in a climb.
How about skinnier tires? Like 12.50's instead of 15's. Last time I was over at Billy Ray's he mentioned this to me and said that even though the contact patch would be smaller, there would be more force applied to that patch. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
