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RJFguitar's resto-mod - went offroad

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It appears all 2003+ 6L engines use
ACDelco 213-1161


Isolated ground


This is so retarded really. I ordered a 6.0L, had a brand new harness made, and should have received 6.0L o2 sensors.:rolleyes:
 
Sounds about right.:doah:

I have been disappointed in Pac fab lately, seems they are rushing to get things out.
 
I'd have to do some checking to be sure, but as I recall from taking my harness apart the front o2 sensors (that I kept) are the triangle kind but the back ones that get deleted were the square type connectors.

I just had the harness and not the actual rear o2 sensors so I don't know if the actual sensors were different.

My engine is a 2003 so things may be slightly different but I'm wondering if the wrong sensor plugs were removed from your harness. If the front sensors plugs were removed, but the pcm is expecting readings on those pins that could be the issue. It would be worth taking a look at your harness to pcm connection to see if the rear pins are still there and not the fronts.

Hopefully that makes sense.
 
Last thing for you, as described on lt1swap.net, there are two methods of wiring the two different types of sensor. One uses a case ground, and one uses an ecm supplied ground. One type just has the two low reference wires (one from each o2) going to the ecm. The other type ties all the o2 low reference and o2 heater ground circuits together and also uses an additional pin on the ecm. So from the factory, there are 5 pins coming out of the ecm for the o2 grounds instead of only 4 for the other type.

That was an awful description, but on both me and my buddies swap we ended up having to tie all the o2 grounds and low references together and also mix in the additional ground pin from ecm. For both of us we had the same EXACT symptoms as you. No closed loop. Once we did that, closed loop was achieved in about a minute or so.
 
Here is the reading on that. After you read the article, check out the diagrams at the end. That will help to understand what he's talking about. In one drawing you can see that 5 wires go to a splice pack and then off the the ecm.

For my swap I had a 5.3 with a 6.0 harness. My buddy had a 6.0 with a van harness.

http://lt1swap.com/vortec_o2_sensors.htm
 
I looked and I have a black wire coming out of pin location 63. I have no idea where it goes specifically.

Pacific Fab says I need two new o2 sensors. They also said that not all 6L used the triangle plug, some had the square plug like mine. He said to buy Denso part number 234-4650. I have no idea what style sensor that is. Nothing online seems to list how any of these part numbers are grounded.

I don't even know why I'm looking up 02 part number info, looking at pin wires, etc. I paid someone to do all this stuff for me. I should of went with my gut feeling....CUMMINS. Never thought I'd wind up $5K deep into this damn 6L, I could have done a P pump cummins swap with a built up auto for basically that.
 
That sucks. We put a used 6.0 in the buggy with a painless harness. The only complaints from the painless harness were that it came with more harnessing than what was asked for :whistle:
 
This has to really suck. Most swaps seem to go so much easier then yours. You would except so much better from PF.
 
rjfguitar said:
I don't even know why I'm looking up 02 part number info, looking at pin wires, etc. I paid someone to do all this stuff for me.
Click to expand...

I agree completely! You paid a premium to not have to deal with this crap. I would be telling them exactly that and point them to this thread and point out the number of page views and members this forum has. Pacific Fab had a good rep here and a lot of people contemplating LS swaps were sent their way. If they can't make this right it will significantly impact their reputation. :confused:
 
Many people have been unhappy with their stuff. I don't understand how they still charge premiums!

I'm sorry your having a tough time with your swap. It doesn't have to be so hard. Or expensive! I think I'm into my 5.3 around $2k counting everything. My buddy who did the 6.0 is in his about $2500. It really doesn't need to cost any more than that.
 
And just my two cents for those following along, in the future, I plan on exclusively buying complete drop out units off eBay. You can get complete 5.3 with original harness, computer, exhaust, etc etc for $1300-$1500 shipped depending on miles. If your a diy guy, do the harness yourself for around $20. Or send it off and have it modified for around $300. Get the ecm programmed for as little as $80 for the round trip to the programmer. After that, fuel pump, adapter plates, fuel line pieces, hoses, flex plate adapter, and a couple other details and your done.

$20 Diy harness mod
$80 program
$80 adapter plates
$100 fuel pump/pieces
$40 radiator hoses
$20 Sensor adapters
$200 misc (exhaust adapted, throttle cable, etc)
$1500 engine package
___________________
Total : $2040
 
y5mgisi said:
And just my two cents for those following along, in the future, I plan on exclusively buying complete drop out units off eBay. You can get complete 5.3 with original harness, computer, exhaust, etc etc for $1300-$1500 shipped depending on miles. If your a diy guy, do the harness yourself for around $20. Or send it off and have it modified for around $300. Get the ecm programmed for as little as $80 for the round trip to the programmer. After that, fuel pump, adapter plates, fuel line pieces, hoses, flex plate adapter, and a couple other details and your done.

$20 Diy harness mod
$80 program
$80 adapter plates
$100 fuel pump/pieces
$40 radiator hoses
$20 Sensor adapters
$200 misc (exhaust adapted, throttle cable, etc)
$1500 engine package
___________________
Total : $2040
Click to expand...

One thing to remember, my swap included extra stuff. While your list will have a guy up and running, it's a somewhat bare bones swap (which is fine if someone just wants to get an LS swap going).

My Doug Thorley tri-y ceramic headers were $700 alone. You didn't mention crossmember info. After doing this swap, I would do another PF crossmember (even though it's NOT bolt in and had to take the plasma cutter to mine) or build my own crossmember because having that extra clearance under the pan is good to have. I already had to pull my pan and it came out easy since I had lots of room.

If/When the 454 blows up in my K30, here is my plan.

Junk yard 5.3 with computer $700.
NEW wiring harness from someone like PF or BD turnkey. $700
headers $300-700
crossmember kit or DIY $20-300
adapter plates $60
fuel system $150
reprogram computer $100
misc parts $500

That is basically $3K. Now, factor in an extra $800 more to buy a 6L over the 5.3 and I could have done this for about $3800 for my K5 on my own without PF, and at this point completely wish I would have and had $1400 still in my pocket. At the time, when I was in a hurry and simply not interested in "pin outs, internet research, and wrecking yard runs." $1400 sounded like money WELL spent for a guy like me that is short on time. The rest is history. :haha:
 
ashman said:
I agree completely! You paid a premium to not have to deal with this crap. I would be telling them exactly that and point them to this thread and point out the number of page views and members this forum has. Pacific Fab had a good rep here and a lot of people contemplating LS swaps were sent their way. If they can't make this right it will significantly impact their reputation. :confused:
Click to expand...
I agree. Going back, them not getting the right flex plate on the engine was pretty dumb on their part. THEY should know what flex plate it takes for each GM trans, it's not like there are very many combos anyway. They are supposed to be LS swap specialists....:confused:

The starter.. I got a bad starter on this engine. I will say though, they paid to ship the starter and computer back to them, and they got a different starter and the computer back to me the same week. I was surprised when it showed back up that quick.

The computer, I got a whole ton of transmission error codes originally, they had to program the computer again...

02 sensors not working....

The bottom line is stuff over there is not being thoroughly tested to make sure everything is done RIGHT. They had the engine running on an engine stand, IMHO, it should have been scanned live to make sure there aren't codes that shouldn't be there, checking to see if programming was done properly, closed loop is achieved, mass air is working, etc.

I didn't/don't expect brand new parts that I didn't pay for. After all, it IS an used take out engine from a yard they sourced. But, used take outs come with a warranty from the yard to run properly, not leak oil (lets remember though, my oil leak is on me), to not have any cylinders with low compression, and that all accessories that are included with the engine work in good used condition.

Many of my issues could have been avoided if things were looked over a bit better than they were. Live and learn.
 
rjfguitar said:
Many of my issues could have been avoided if things were looked over a bit better than they were. Live and learn.
Click to expand...
Yup. Live and learn is a good attitude to have at this point since getting yourself worked up isn't going to solve the problems but I can bet that pacific fab will lose some customers over this thread. Anyone searching LS swap and related key words is going to find your thread and come to the conclusion they should spend their money elsewhere.

I only bought 1 part from them ( the 1st gen crossmember) and I had to modify it to work too. :rolleyes:
 
ashman said:
Yup. Live and learn is a good attitude to have at this point since getting yourself worked up isn't going to solve the problems but I can bet that pacific fab will lose some customers over this thread. Anyone searching LS swap and related key words is going to find your thread and come to the conclusion they should spend their money elsewhere.

I only bought 1 part from them ( the 1st gen crossmember) and I had to modify it to work too. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I just put in 2 new o2 sensors that are the part number pf gave me. No closed loop.
 
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