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Running 220 for air compressor
- Thread starter Chief Brody
- Start date
In fact, I have approached this whole project from a perspective of a virtual lack of knowledge...then asked many questions until I got solid answers...there are many very knowledgable people on this forum with knowledge and real EXPERIENCE in a lot of areas...that's why I am a paid member....there are a few here that truly seem to know a lot about everything...because they have years of experience in a lot of things.
I seriously don't know how my K5 project would be turning out if it weren't for this CK5 forum and the members who have helped me so far...
I seriously don't know how my K5 project would be turning out if it weren't for this CK5 forum and the members who have helped me so far...
utherjorge
1/2 ton status
I agree...why I'm a paid member too!
I know it's pricey (Christ, copper is way up the last few years) but it's why I'm rewiring my house with the new stuff instead of the old knob and tube. If you think you'll ever weld, you might want to do that panel now, or at least put your outlet farther away from the panel than the little panel would be so you could cut the line short and throw a panel in later.
I know it's pricey (Christ, copper is way up the last few years) but it's why I'm rewiring my house with the new stuff instead of the old knob and tube. If you think you'll ever weld, you might want to do that panel now, or at least put your outlet farther away from the panel than the little panel would be so you could cut the line short and throw a panel in later.
Uhhh....I'm not super competent...I'm a noob...Ryoken is the Yoda...
sorry, couldn't resist....
fine student you have been, asks all the pertinent questions.....
sorry, couldn't resist....
fine student you have been, asks all the pertinent questions.....
"There is no try...you either do or do not...." Master Yoda
If I get a welder it will like be something like a Hobart Handler 125...the specs say it needs 15 to 20 amps...If that happens I can always bump up the breaker to a 30 Amp and put a 20 Amp sub breaker box at the compressor with a pigtail coming out and to the plug...
or I can just run another dedicated line for a welder...putting the outlet near the panel and putting a long cable on the welder?
of course a sub box would be nice...and now would be a good time to do it...hmmmmm....$$$$$$$
utherjorge
1/2 ton status
If you don't want to spend the money now, which is obviously understandable, I'd run the outlet farther away, so you could leave the outlet (I needed to get a couple myself, one for a future dryer and one for the garage, but $40 is a lot for the future..., even worse x2) and then just pull the wire and put the panel in as needed. In that case, you'd be set either way.
It's kind of like how I've drilled all the holes I need and put in all the boxes in the attic for dropping down the wires this summer. Planning ahead for more of what you might need later cuts down on the work you'd need later moving wires and boxes.
It's kind of like how I've drilled all the holes I need and put in all the boxes in the attic for dropping down the wires this summer. Planning ahead for more of what you might need later cuts down on the work you'd need later moving wires and boxes.
Confedneck
3/4 ton status
hardwired mine into my water heater.... bought 15 feet of romex when i bought the compressor, and it wasn't enough, has worked fine in 3 locations since lol.
Chief, 10/3 is going to be iffy for a welder.
15-20 amps is fine for that size wire, but you will also have the air compressor on the same line.
There are two things to consider when sizing wire. Most folks only consider one of them.
The Ampacity of the wire is its rated current handleing ability. You can always put more current through a given size wire than its rating, but you may get a fire. All wires get warm when carrying current, and the amount of rated current is the amount that it can heat up before the insulation starts to deteriorate.
This number changes depending on the type of insulation and how the wire is run. A wire in open air will safely carry more current than the same wire running through insulation.
Also wire in conduit must be downrated because the heat gets trapped in the conduit.
Also the more wires in the conduit, the less current you can pass through them due to heat buildup.
You should be fine as far as ampacity is concerned here. But, there is another factor that lots of people overlook, and that is voltage drop.
You don't say how far you are going, probably not too far, but if you are using the welder when the compressor kicks on, you will not be getting the same voltage to the welder that you were.
Plus, the compressor is not going to get the voltage it needs.
Remember a motor needs lots more current to start than it does to run. You say the compressor will draw about 15 amps.
That means it may draw as much as 30 amps when starting depending on the type of motor.
So, if you are running the welder and the compressor tries to start, the weld current will change, and the motor is going to have problems starting since you could be drawing as much as 50 amps briefly.
Over a run of 10 to 30 feet, you would be fine. But the farther you go, the more loss you get.
You might consider either going with two circuits, or one heavier one with a sub panel.
Also, I have not priced wire lately, I buy it by the roll, and still have quite a bit. But you might have come out better buying some THHN single conductor and some PVC conduit.
You would have been better off buying some 10/2 with ground instead of what you bought, which sounds like 10/3 with ground.
Make sure you have some kind of clamp when the wire goes through the boxes.
I hope this post makes sense. I have been about an hour writing it between phone calls, somebody dropping by and a lightning storm.
15-20 amps is fine for that size wire, but you will also have the air compressor on the same line.
There are two things to consider when sizing wire. Most folks only consider one of them.
The Ampacity of the wire is its rated current handleing ability. You can always put more current through a given size wire than its rating, but you may get a fire. All wires get warm when carrying current, and the amount of rated current is the amount that it can heat up before the insulation starts to deteriorate.
This number changes depending on the type of insulation and how the wire is run. A wire in open air will safely carry more current than the same wire running through insulation.
Also wire in conduit must be downrated because the heat gets trapped in the conduit.
Also the more wires in the conduit, the less current you can pass through them due to heat buildup.
You should be fine as far as ampacity is concerned here. But, there is another factor that lots of people overlook, and that is voltage drop.
You don't say how far you are going, probably not too far, but if you are using the welder when the compressor kicks on, you will not be getting the same voltage to the welder that you were.
Plus, the compressor is not going to get the voltage it needs.
Remember a motor needs lots more current to start than it does to run. You say the compressor will draw about 15 amps.
That means it may draw as much as 30 amps when starting depending on the type of motor.
So, if you are running the welder and the compressor tries to start, the weld current will change, and the motor is going to have problems starting since you could be drawing as much as 50 amps briefly.
Over a run of 10 to 30 feet, you would be fine. But the farther you go, the more loss you get.
You might consider either going with two circuits, or one heavier one with a sub panel.
Also, I have not priced wire lately, I buy it by the roll, and still have quite a bit. But you might have come out better buying some THHN single conductor and some PVC conduit.
You would have been better off buying some 10/2 with ground instead of what you bought, which sounds like 10/3 with ground.
Make sure you have some kind of clamp when the wire goes through the boxes.
I hope this post makes sense. I have been about an hour writing it between phone calls, somebody dropping by and a lightning storm.
Actually if I were to get a welder I would only have one of them hooked up at a time...that's why I wanted a socket in the wall...so I could unplug one and plug the other in...
I have it wired in now...it took me 6 hours to do it...going up the ladder into the attic which was easily 115 degrees....I was belly surfing on rafters...and sweating out in 10 minutes....got cramps all over...
I had to come into the panel through a punch-out....I do not have a clamp for the wire yet...Jeez that 10/3 is hard to deal with....my run is actually about 28 feet from the panel up and oer to the wall socket.
Fordum...what I was getting at was that if I wanted to run one thing at a time...welder or compressor....then I can just put a 30 amp breaker in place of the 20 which makes that circuit now a 30 amp....and then get a sub box and put the 20 amp breaker in it and hang it on the wall next to the compressor....hardwire it to the compressor and use a picgtail with a plug going to the socket....that would work wouldn't it? Might be extra work....
I have it wired in now...it took me 6 hours to do it...going up the ladder into the attic which was easily 115 degrees....I was belly surfing on rafters...and sweating out in 10 minutes....got cramps all over...
I had to come into the panel through a punch-out....I do not have a clamp for the wire yet...Jeez that 10/3 is hard to deal with....my run is actually about 28 feet from the panel up and oer to the wall socket.
Fordum...what I was getting at was that if I wanted to run one thing at a time...welder or compressor....then I can just put a 30 amp breaker in place of the 20 which makes that circuit now a 30 amp....and then get a sub box and put the 20 amp breaker in it and hang it on the wall next to the compressor....hardwire it to the compressor and use a picgtail with a plug going to the socket....that would work wouldn't it? Might be extra work....
Pookster
1/2 ton status
Actually, I wouldn't do that- As Im doing it now, and it sucks sorta.
1. you wear out your plugs faster.
2. Those prongs are more subject to being stepped on. Your also tripping over lines more often as well.
3. If you ever get a plasma cutter, you need air and power at the same time.
I started the same way- (sorta, I got a synchrowave 200 before I got my lincoln mig) and found that my wires were.. not enough. Welding aluminum takes power. Then, when I wanted to run my plasma cutter - I couldnt'.
Price was a factor...have you bought wire lately
No kidding. I just went to make a 25' extension cord for my welder. The socket, plug and 10/3 wire was about $75 at Menards. If you need "cord" and not "wire", look online for closeouts on Marine cords. I have seen 50' shore power cords selling for like $30 and they are 10/3. The plugs are rated for 110V (even though they work at 220), but cut them off and it's cheaper than buying the cord.
we've got those 30 amp chords laying all over the marina, dime a dozen...
50 amp chords? big bucks there... they're like gold for us, we have 2... they're like $700, 800 new...
50 amp chords? big bucks there... they're like gold for us, we have 2... they're like $700, 800 new...
I got a compressor....I went to Harbor Freight first and tried to buy the $399 compressor...the sales guy said "It's now $450...it went off sale on the 1st...I said can I speak to the manager? THe manager wouldn't budge..so I left..
I went to Homo Depot and found this Husky (Campbell Hausfield) reconditioned for $300
Now I need help wiring it in...my cable has 4 wires (red, black, green, white)
the compressor only has 3 wires (black, white and green) what's up with that?
I went to Homo Depot and found this Husky (Campbell Hausfield) reconditioned for $300
Now I need help wiring it in...my cable has 4 wires (red, black, green, white)
the compressor only has 3 wires (black, white and green) what's up with that?
Sorry Chief, you're gonna have to take it back, that one won't work on your system.................
Kidding.
Actually its because of the way you wired the outlet. You really only needed to run 10/2 with ground.
Your system does not separate neutral and ground, so the white wire is redundant. .
Double check at the box where you wired it in to be sure. You should have the white and green wires run to the ground/neutral lug.
If so, clip off the white wire off the end of your cable, and hook the black of the compressor to the black, the white of the compressor to the red, and the greens together.
And, just a personal idea, I always leave the room after it had been running for a few minutes, until it turns off.
Just in case someone did a poor welding job on the tank.............
Kidding.
Actually its because of the way you wired the outlet. You really only needed to run 10/2 with ground.
Your system does not separate neutral and ground, so the white wire is redundant. .
Double check at the box where you wired it in to be sure. You should have the white and green wires run to the ground/neutral lug.
If so, clip off the white wire off the end of your cable, and hook the black of the compressor to the black, the white of the compressor to the red, and the greens together.
And, just a personal idea, I always leave the room after it had been running for a few minutes, until it turns off.
Just in case someone did a poor welding job on the tank.............
I usually turn to keep the jewels out of harms way too
Looks pretty good. Its a single stage, so pressure will not be as high, but it should do what you want.
The motor is capacitor start and capacitor run, so its fairly efficient. Be sure to drain the tank real often to help prevent rust, and take the wingnut off the little round piece with the snout on the side of the compressor.
That is the air intake, and there should be a little air filter in there. Be sure to clean it regularly and replace it every so often.
The motor is capacitor start and capacitor run, so its fairly efficient. Be sure to drain the tank real often to help prevent rust, and take the wingnut off the little round piece with the snout on the side of the compressor.
That is the air intake, and there should be a little air filter in there. Be sure to clean it regularly and replace it every so often.
Sorry Chief, you're gonna have to take it back, that one won't work on your system.................
Kidding.
Actually its because of the way you wired the outlet. You really only needed to run 10/2 with ground.
Your system does not separate neutral and ground, so the white wire is redundant. .
Double check at the box where you wired it in to be sure. You should have the white and green wires run to the ground/neutral lug.
If so, clip off the white wire off the end of your cable, and hook the black of the compressor to the black, the white of the compressor to the red, and the greens together.
And, just a personal idea, I always leave the room after it had been running for a few minutes, until it turns off.
Just in case someone did a poor welding job on the tank.............
Can I just tie my Green and White wire together that are the Neutral and Ground? They told me to go 4 wire just in case one of the grounds breaks the device doesn't become "live"...
So...if a compressor tank "blew up"....would it turn into a missile or would it be like a grenade? 
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